When to credit inspiration/sources?

[LettersFromTatyana]

I'm currently writing a story and am unclear about whether I should credit particular source books or articles. I don't want to plagiarize (and I don't think I have?), but I'm so used to citing sources that it feels sort of weird not to, no matter how tiny the borrowed detail.

Have other people run into similar dilemmas? I'm thinking about something in between the "inspired by a song" story and a story that is clearly based on another work (West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet/Pyramus and Thisbe, though think a lot less well-known in my case so many people wouldn't realize it).

I'm trying to be ethical, but I don't want to subject readers to unnecessary babble at the top of a story, either.

I can post more about the specifics of my situation, but I didn't want this to turn into a giant advertisement of sorts so I thought I'd try and be vague first. Hopefully I'm not creating more problems by doing so.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm currently writing a story and am unclear about whether I should credit particular source books or articles. I don't want to plagiarize (and I don't think I have?), but I'm so used to citing sources that it feels sort of weird not to, no matter how tiny the borrowed detail.

Have other people run into similar dilemmas? I'm thinking about something in between the "inspired by a song" story and a story that is clearly based on another work (West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet/Pyramus and Thisbe, though think a lot less well-known in my case so many people wouldn't realize it).

I'm trying to be ethical, but I don't want to subject readers to unnecessary babble at the top of a story, either.

I can post more about the specifics of my situation, but I didn't want this to turn into a giant advertisement of sorts so I thought I'd try and be vague first. Hopefully I'm not creating more problems by doing so.

I think-so don't hold me to it- that as long as you are not trying to claim it- then it's okay "Inspired by Aerosmith's Love in an elevator" is paying proper homage to the originator of the idea.
Now seeing as I am not sure if I am correct I would also like to see if anyone knows for sure as in an upcoming chapter I wanted one of the characters to sing a song to the other and use the lyrics I'm hoping by acknowledging the artist and song title it will be okay.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Hmmm... I'm not sure I follow, lovecraft. How about this?


The main concept of the story--your relationship will be better if you view it through the lens of economic theory--is the main concept of a relatively popular new book, Spousonomics. I heard about the book's concept, and I decided to write a story about it. However, I haven't actually read the book (I've been waiting to finish my story).

I feel like I'm being disingenuous either way (implicitly claiming the idea was all my own by not citing the book, implicitly claiming I've read the book by saying the story was inspired by the book).

I should have just read the damn thing.

Any help out of my (probably ridiculous) conundrum is appreciated.

 

[PennLady]

Hmmm... I'm not sure I follow, lovecraft. How about this?


The main concept of the story--your relationship will be better if you view it through the lens of economic theory--is the main concept of a relatively popular new book, Spousonomics. I heard about the book's concept, and I decided to write a story about it. However, I haven't actually read the book (I've been waiting to finish my story).

I feel like I'm being disingenuous either way (implicitly claiming the idea was all my own by not citing the book, implicitly claiming I've read the book by saying the story was inspired by the book).

I should have just read the damn thing.

Any help out of my (probably ridiculous) conundrum is appreciated.

Tatyana, I think you're thinking too much about it. If you haven't read it, the likelihood that you'd plagiarize has to be small. I think just saying something like "This was inspired by what I heard about a book called 'Spousonomics.'" would be okay. Also, I find myself wondering how popular it is, or in what circles -- I've never heard of it. So it could be that there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between readers of that and readers here.

I've written four stories inspired by songs. And I just put, in a note before or after, that "This story was inspired by the song "XXX" by YYY."

 

[oggbashan]

Your second post makes it fairly clear that you do not need to quote a source. You have been inspired by the title, not by the book itself.

My incomplete chaptered story Christmas Fairy was based on an idea from a published story, so I stated:

This story was inspired by Piers Anthony's short story 'The Bridge'. I cannot describe this as an original work only as a variation on his theme.

I took little more than the original concept from Piers Anthony's story and thought "What if?".

You could use similar words in an introduction/preface.

Og

 

[sr71plt]

There's no requirement to cite whatever inspired your story.

On the question of song lyrics, though, copyright law won't support quoting of more than two lines of the lyrics of a song. There's little chance anyone would go after someone who used more--but, again, the music industry is the one that goes after copyright violations the most--and especially for lyrics.

 

[PennLady]

There's no requirement to cite whatever inspired your story.

On the question of song lyrics, though, copyright law won't support quoting of more than two lines of the lyrics of a song. There's little chance anyone would go after someone who used more--but, again, the music industry is the one that goes after copyright violations the most--and especially for lyrics.

That's good to know. I don't quote the lyrics in my stories. I write the story that I get from the lyrics and usually work in some of the descriptions or something in, and not as direct quotes. I think I'm safe.

And actually, I think it was DG Hear (he recently posted a story that quoted 'Cold Cold Heart' by Hank Williams) that said you can quote up to 40% or something. But he provided credit as well -- no question that he was quoting Williams.

 

[sr71plt]

That's good to know. I don't quote the lyrics in my stories. I write the story that I get from the lyrics and usually work in some of the descriptions or something in, and not as direct quotes. I think I'm safe.

And actually, I think it was DG Hear (he recently posted a story that quoted 'Cold Cold Heart' by Hank Williams) that said you can quote up to 40% or something. But he provided credit as well -- no question that he was quoting Williams.

Providing credit for a use that isn't supported by custom (there's no clear-cut rule. Anyone can sue and no one is actually safe for any use. There's no 40% rule/custom for lyrics--or anything else under copyright, for that matter.) just provides a spotlight on the violation--and, in court, will be used as proof that the violator knew where it was stolen from.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Moi? A neurotic overthinker? I've never been accused of such nonsense.

PL and Og, I like your ideas of "inspired by the title," since while I may not have a legal obligation to provide credit, I feel a moral one. I'll sleep better tonight. I feel kind of pathetic for not thinking of that, so I'm glad the two of you stepped in to help.

Sr, thanks for the song information.

The book is currently ranked 1,510 at Amazon. It's not exactly a best seller, but it's not completely unknown, especially in certain circles.

 

[PennLady]

Providing credit for a use that isn't supported by custom (there's no clear-cut rule. Anyone can sue and no one is actually safe for any use. There's no 40% rule/custom for lyrics--or anything else under copyright, for that matter.) just provides a spotlight on the violation--and, in court, will be used as proof that the violator knew where it was stolen from.

Well what would be the custom? In DG Hear's story, and in most that I've read that cite song lyrics, the scene will be something like the character was listening to the CD/radio, and heard the lyrics {insert lyric quote} and felt x or y about it.

I mean, I could see the problem, obviously, if they quoted the lyrics without attribution. But there is a fair use doctrine, or loose precedent, right? I'm not sure exactly how it's defined.

Not that I want to tempt the music industry into going after anyone.

 

[Cicca_Jai]

But there is a fair use doctrine, or loose precedent, right? I'm not sure exactly how it's defined.

Yes PL, there is a fair use policy that is held industy wide, that being said there is a lot of give and take within that policy.

I suggest looking up the copyrights acts for your country, as well as, the Fair Use policy.
Usualy no more than two paragraphs (written works,) or one-two lines (from a song) can be used with out issue.

If you ref. more than this, I would give citation as needed.

Hope that helps a bit.
~C~
Someone correct me if I am wrong

 

[PennLady]

Yes PL, there is a fair use policy that is held industy wide, that being said there is a lot of give and take within that policy.

I suggest looking up the copyrights acts for your country, as well as, the Fair Use policy.
Usualy no more than two paragraphs (written works,) or one-two lines (from a song) can be used with out issue.

If you ref. more than this, I would give citation as needed.

Hope that helps a bit.
~C~
Someone correct me if I am wrong

Thanks, Cicca. Like I said -- my song stories don't quote lyrics, so it's not an issue for me. I don't think. Actually it's gotten to be a bit of a game with myself, writing the story and working ideas in but not just quoting the lyrics. I find a story in the song, and it doesn't involve people listening to it. So far.

 

[TE999]

I wrote a story a few years back entitled 'Kelly's Moonlight Serenade' inspired by the song...I used some of the (little known) lyrics in the story as well. I never received any flak about it.

 

[sr71plt]

I wrote a story a few years back entitled 'Kelly's Moonlight Serenade' inspired by the song...I used some of the (little known) lyrics in the story as well. I never received any flak about it.

Well, aren't you a peach? A dumb one, of course. I said someone who did it probably would get away with it. Your stupidity is in thinking that because you got away with it, you weren't at risk and weren't violating copyright.

Just another dumb smart ass.

The reason you got away with it, of course is because what you wrote was deemed worthless.

 

[estragon]

Well, aren't you a peach? A dumb one, of course. I said someone who did it probably would get away with it. Your stupidity is in thinking that because you got away with it, you weren't at risk and weren't violating copyright.

Just another dumb smart ass.

The reason you got away with it, of course is because what you wrote was deemed worthless.

That's just about enough, lamb chop! You're way out of line! Get the hockey stick down or it's a game misconduct! You have no right to abuse people that way, I don't care if you flew a fucking Sabrejet! As for fair use, that's for the courts, if the copyright holder cares.

 

[sr71plt]

That's just about enough, lamb chop! You're way out of line! Get the hockey stick down or it's a game misconduct! You have no right to abuse people that way, I don't care if you flew a fucking Sabrejet! As for fair use, that's for the courts, if the copyright holder cares.

Who appointed you hall monitor? Stuff it. TE999 is acting like he has a vote on copyright law as he ignorantly beckons folks into possible trouble. This topic isn't an "anything you want to do" game area. Following TE999's cavalier advice can get an author skewered. I never cease to be amazed by the stupidity of some of the folks playing around with half-assed ideas on the Internet. And I also never cease to be amazed at how willing folks are to be bamboozled and led into trouble by wishful thinking and by people like TE999 pretending they know what they don't.

The important issue here isn't being polite to TE999. It's self-preservation. And if you can't see that, you're as dumb as TE999 is.

 

[JackLuis]

Who appointed you hall monitor? Stuff it. TE999 is acting like he has a vote on copyright law as he ignorantly beckons folks into possible trouble. This topic isn't an "anything you want to do" game area. I never cease to be amazed by the stupidity of some of the folks playing around with half-assed ideas on the Internet.

Ha Ha Ha!

This place is amusing.

"Lamb Chop," ha ha haa!

 

[sr71plt]

Ha Ha Ha!

This place is amusing.

I've meant to say that I think your current avatar is the gas.

 

[JackLuis]

I've meant to say that I think your current avatar is the gas.

"What evil lurks in the black bowler?"

 

[sr71plt]

"What evil lurks in the black bowler?"

Why, it's the cat in the hat.

 

[Tyro999]

... On the question of song lyrics, though, copyright law won't support quoting of more than two lines of the lyrics of a song. There's little chance anyone would go after someone who used more--but, again, the music industry is the one that goes after copyright violations the most--and especially for lyrics.

Thanks a lot, Habu pilot . You have now embedded in my mind an image of some poor minimum wage drone, embedded in the corner of a music publisher's office in front of a computer, whose sole job is to read all new Literotica stories searching for lyric copyright violations. A job from Hell.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks a lot, Habu pilot . You have now embedded in my mind an image of some poor minimum wage drone, embedded in the corner of a music publisher's office in front of a computer, whose sole job is to read all new Literotica stories searching for lyric copyright violations. A job from Hell.

Nope, as I posted--before TE999 flipped in--it's unlikely a Lit. author would rise on this person's screen--because there would be no money to win out a settlement and it would have to become rampant before the industry would be likely to want to make an example of anyone. (This happens, though--don't forget the poor young girl who got dragged into court for downloading music illegally. That was done to draw the line and make an example of what could happen.)

So, you can certainly do it. Two points, though.

1. It's like shoplifting and petty theft--and even worse crimes--you can statistically get away with it, at least for a while. That has no relationship to it thereby becoming legal to do or less sleazy of you to do.

This is the author's section of a writing Web site. These could just as well be lyrics that you wrote and own. Are you the type of person who thinks there are/should be one set of rules for how you treat someone else's property and how they do/should treat yours? TE999's post shows he does.

2. When someone posts a question of what is the proper (and less risky thing to do), why is it not appropriate to answer the question they asked? They are asking for the "right" way to do it. If they pose the question as how probably to "get away with it," that's a different question. TE999's answer suffices in that case.

(By the way, the music industry does have such people--and, as I noted, the music industry is the most litigious on this. It's just that they are looking for those making good money off it or doing it high profile/high nusiance level.)

 

[MatthewVett]

Spousonomics sounds really interesting... Do you know much about its arguments?

 

[estragon]

I Suggest You Treat Copyrighted Materials

with the greatest respect. Here's how a Federal Judge slammed a multi-billion-dollar corporation who tried to play games with copyrights. Read the whole decision, it's really good stuff.

Authors Guild v. Google, Inc. 05 Civ 8136 (DC), 3/22/11, (Southern District, NY, Denny Chin, J.) at p. 27:

“…Google engaged in wholesale, blatant copying, without first
obtaining copyright permissions. While its competitors went
through the "painstaking" and "costly" process of obtaining
permissions before scanning copyrighted books, "Google by
comparison took a shortcut by copying anything and everything
regardless of copyright status." (Hr'g Tr. 43 (Thomas Rubin,
counsel for Microsoft)). As one objector put it: "Google
pursued its copyright project in calculated disregard of authors'
rights. Its business plan was: 'So, sue me.'”

Judge Chin went on, at pp.32-33: “A copyright owner's right to exclude others from using
his property is fundamental and beyond dispute. See Fox Film
Corp. v. Doyal, 286 U.S. 123, 127 (1932) ("The owner of the
copyright, if he pleases, may refrain from vending or licensing
and content himself with simply exercising the right to exclude
others from using his property."). As counsel for Amazon argued:
"[T]he law of the United States is a copyright owner may sit
back, do nothing and enjoy his property rights untrammeled by
others exploiting his works without permission."

So dig it. If you want to steal, be aware of the consequences. And remember that taking someone else's plot lines, characters and situations and placing them in your own work creates a "derivative work", as that term is defined in 17 United States Code §101, and is subject to protection only to the extent set forth in 17 United States Code §103(b). In English, stealing someone else's work and sticking it in your story without permission is theft. That is why I wigged out when I misunderstood Laurel's comment on my story "In a Deep and Dark December". I made absolutely sure I had written permission from Grand Master dweaver999 before I dared offer for publication any work based on his masterful Valerie series.