Story Ratings By Readers... How seriously should I take them?

[GirlWithBoots]

I'm not incredibly prolific and I've just started writing again after a hiatus of a few years.

I tend to take the ratings very seriously... should I? To the other writers out there who have really highly rated stories or very low rated stories... do you think you deserve those ratings? Do you care?

Just wondering what others think on all of this.

 

[GinaTina]

I don't care so much about the ratings as I do the comments. If someone takes the time out and leaves me an in-depth, honest comment - be it negative or positive - I appreciate it.

See, I figure I wouldn't have even posted the story if I didn't want to know if others enjoyed it or not.

/shrug/ just my two cents.

 

[Guest]

It's a game

deleted

 

[PennLady]

I'm not incredibly prolific and I've just started writing again after a hiatus of a few years.

I tend to take the ratings very seriously... should I? To the other writers out there who have really highly rated stories or very low rated stories... do you think you deserve those ratings? Do you care?

Just wondering what others think on all of this.

You cannot care too much about ratings, comments, etc. As I've said before, this is not peer review. This is a random sampling of people that may or may not vote or leave their thoughts, and of course many trolls post anonymously.

I think you'll find that there are some people, writers and not, who post comments that show they're thinking about things seriously, and those are the ones that should probably get your attention.

Do I deserve my ratings? tough question. Relative to what? I know my stuff is better than a lot, not as good as some. This is why you can't get too wrapped up -- the pool of writers and readers is just too big.

 

[CWatson]

I tend to take the ratings very seriously... should I?

Sure you should. ...If you plan to go insane and be locked up in a padded room somewhere.

Here's the thing about ratings: everybody has their own standards, and everybody applies their own standards. If you look a little down the page, you'll see some hapless fool ("zodia##" or whatever) who asked for feedback on her story, and whom I obligingly wrote up a reply to. I dinged her on a whole bunch of stuff--historical inaccuracies, blandness of setting, characters carrying the Idiot Ball, a wizard character who existed solely as a walking rectum, and a character so deep into Mary Sue Land that the recent quake in Japan couldn't dislodge her. I didn't say it to her face, but here's the truth: I think that writer is about as bad as you can get.

And you know what? My feedback may be completely and totally inappropriate. Why? Because I'm criticizing her for stuff she herself doesn't care about and didn't try to get right in the first place. That would be understandable, especially if she really is as old as her story makes her sound like (about 13); she'd be just starting out on the road of self-expression, more concerned about getting the tale onto the page at all than over whether the tale itself is worth telling, or if she's doing a good job telling it. It's like judging a poker player by the rules of gymnastics--completely inappropriate. (I did it anyhow, mostly to both encourage that writer's imagination--which, in all fairness, she does have a ton of--and to discourage her laziness. But I must admit that I do feel a bit guilty about it.)

We all have certain goals in writing stories. Some of us seek to titillate; some of us seek to tell excellent stories; some of us just want to get fantasies off our chest. Likewise, we all have certain goals in reading stories. Some seek escapism; some seek life lessons to bring back to the real world; and some just seek the voyeuristic thrills our genre provide so well. The goal I have, in writing my story?--may have absolutely nothing to do with the goal of The Reader, who is reading my story. And, because the customer is always right, The Reader will grade my story by his goals--he'll complain that I didn't write a perfect fantasy; he'll complain my story was total fluff; he'll complain that I only write about vanilla sex--and 1-bomb me because I failed to meet his standards.

It's happened. My best works are the ones with the lowest scores, and I know that because they have the lowest scores; I tried to push The Reader in a direction he didn't want to go, and in revenge he voted down my story. Personally? I ignore him. I don't care if I failed his standards. I wasn't trying to meet them in the first place.

So, no, if I were you: I'd ignore the ratings entirely. If you get e-mails, that'll tell you way more, and those you can choose to listen to if you desire*. But high ratings mean only one thing: you successfully pandered to the base. And while that's not a negligible achievement in itself, we are all capable of way more than that.


* (Or you can choose to ignore them. You get some crap e-mails sometimes. I got one for stories on my ASSTR site, with the guy saying, "Oh, I love your stories, you should make BC and ML join up with CS in a three-way marriage, and then AC & DS's daughter can marry B and M's son. I'd love to see that." And in addition to being utterly cliché, it would be completely out-of-character for everyone involved, so I replied to him, "I'm sure you would love to see that. Too bad you won't.")

 

[SydneyBlake]

GirlWithBoots, welcome back. I'm in the same boat as you, except I also had all my old submissions deleted, so as far as anybody else is concerned here, I'm a complete newbie, even though I'm not. *Sigh*

Anyway, I think you got some excellent responses here. Almost all my old stories had the coveted "H", but they didn't rate as high as some stories that I thought were inferior, which bugged me. But what was truly valuable was some of the advice given in comments and emails. There are a lot of people out there who *think* they can write and who *think* they can give good advice, and then there are those out there who really can. It doesn't take long to separate the two.

So screw the ratings and consider the comments, and always be ready to accept that there's always something you can do to improve your writing and story-telling skills, and seek to do so. And above everything else, have fun!

 

[bashfullyshameless]

I feel that I've been ridiculously well-treated with both votes and commentary. My story (in all its chapters) has been so well-received that I'm still left scratching my head, thinking, "Wait...really?" So understand that my point of view comes from being awfully fortunate here.

Reader votes are nice and all, as are the commentary, but you certainly shouldn't take them as the fairest judgments of your work. Depending on the nature of the story, you may well have hit on someone's trigger points and they may lash out unkindly. And while I have no actual evidence, I am convinced that there are folks on this site who deliberately throw out 1s and 2s just to drag down what they see as competition.

If you get comments like "kill yourself" or "the problem with this story is that it was written," you are clearly receiving feedback from someone who is consumed more with his/her own negativity than with an actual reaction to your story. Thoughtful, constructive criticism should be taken seriously -- obviously you might disagree with it, but at least give it some thought -- because the reader took the time to give you the feedback. But if they're just slinging insults and derision, fuck 'em. Particularly if they don't have any stories on the site and they hide behind internet anonymity.

Also -- consider the category you're writing in, because some categories seem to acquire more considerate readership than others. Sci-Fi/Fantasy seems to get readers who really expect a good plot in addition to all the sex. Loving Wives seems to attract folks who don't know where to direct their masochistic rage. And from what I've seen, any gay male action in a story that doesn't come with a prior warning is probably going to elicit some displeased reactions.

My votes and the comments I've received have meant an awful lot to me, but again, I've had a really good experience here thus far. I haven't received hateful bullshit. (I'm sure I will sooner or later.) My vote tallies have been great. But I still had to write the story that I had in mind, not what would play for high votes and pleased commentary.

 

[estragon]

Sounds Like Sour Grapes

if you say "Don't take voting seriously", especially if your stories have been bombed as badly as mine. My best one has the lowest score.

But when an author I admire, like Penn Lady (hi Penn, how's it going?), is willing to act as technical adviser on a sequel to my Guernica, or when I get an e-mail from Grand Master dweaver999 encouraging me, or when someone thanks me for my quibbles, or even when someone rewrites using my quibbles without thanking me (hi, silk and discreet), then it's all worth it.

For a while.

Then, inevitably, the bombers return, another child of my imagination looks like Berlin 1945, and I get to the point where, if a story of mine by some miracle reaches 4.50 with no "H", I ask Hemingway's question: "If these bastards like it what's wrong with it?"

So there's no good answer. To care or not to care, that is always the question.

 

[estragon]

To Set The Record Straight

In the previous post I pointed to a lack of acknowledgment by DiscreetLover of my edits to her story Just What She Needs (which has just been resubmitted and which I highly recommend as good stroke and good love). After an exchange of e-mails with DiscreetLover, I withdraw the negative remark. An intro with appropriate acknowledgment was inadvertently omitted or deleted in the publication process. As we have both exchanged appropriate apologies, I hope we can now consider this matter closed.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't want credit for editing here. For one thing, I'm not the one submitting the story, so I have no control over how it actually looks in the story file. (I've always gotten this urge to go look at a story that's credited the editor--on Lit., four times out of five, the story is an editorial mess.) In the mainstream, although nonfiction authors often credit their editors, it's not the custom for fiction authors to do so.

 

[lady_poisyn]

i say ignore the ratings, welcome the comments- as long as they are well thought out, and not just random "oh thats so hot" type of responce. if you're happy with it, it's good.

 

[PennLady]

if you say "Don't take voting seriously", especially if your stories have been bombed as badly as mine. My best one has the lowest score.

But when an author I admire, like Penn Lady (hi Penn, how's it going?), is willing to act as technical adviser on a sequel to my Guernica, or when I get an e-mail from Grand Master dweaver999 encouraging me, or when someone thanks me for my quibbles, or even when someone rewrites using my quibbles without thanking me (hi, silk and discreet), then it's all worth it.

For a while.

Then, inevitably, the bombers return, another child of my imagination looks like Berlin 1945, and I get to the point where, if a story of mine by some miracle reaches 4.50 with no "H", I ask Hemingway's question: "If these bastards like it what's wrong with it?"

So there's no good answer. To care or not to care, that is always the question.

Hi Estragon.

Well, I don't think it's sour grapes. I'm happy to receive positive feedback of course, and welcome constructive criticism. For the former, it's of course nice to know that you made someone smile, laugh or even cry. For the latter, it's flattering that someone takes the time to point out errors in the hope -- if they do it properly -- of improving the story, or future stories. However, this is nothing more than reaction, and we don't even know who from.

Not to mention, we've all seen badly written stories where commenters gush over it, proclaiming it the best thing they've ever read, and why aren't you published? (And yes, crap gets published in print, too.)

So, best thing to me is to take it all with a grain of salt, ignore the trolls, and be grateful for those who took time to share their thoughts.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

Hi Estragon.

Not to mention, we've all seen badly written stories where commenters gush over it, proclaiming it the best thing they've ever read, and why aren't you published? (And yes, crap gets published in print, too.)

*Looks over comments on his story*

*Makes a sad face*

*Watches self-worth crumble*

 

[Passing]

Take it as it is delivered.

If someone is just delivering crap, flush it. If they are delivering well thought out opinions, give it some thought. And some just enjoy trampling on others (My Mama woulda said they's just mean spirited folk that just hate ever'body 'cause they don't love themselves).

 

[estragon]

I'm Out

Blackbird Guy, As Brendan Behan said "Every cripple has his own way of walking", so I want an acknowledgment if a writer agrees my quibbles helped, and I'll take the hits if a writer tells me to shut the fuck up and mind my own business. And you are at perfect liberty to do it your way.

Penn, you know how much I admire your work. At your level, the votes and ratings really don't matter.

Bashful, no my sense of self-worth doesn't crumble. I piss and moan, bitch and cuss, bellyache on AH, and go back to do the work I was given to do. Because, as Ms.O'Hara remarked, "Tomorrow is another day."

 

[WastelandVoice]

I'm not incredibly prolific and I've just started writing again after a hiatus of a few years.

I tend to take the ratings very seriously... should I? To the other writers out there who have really highly rated stories or very low rated stories... do you think you deserve those ratings? Do you care?

Just wondering what others think on all of this.

You can't put your work on a site where thousands of people, sometimes tends of thousands of them, are going to read/listen and expect everyone to like it. You're going to get bad ratings here and there and bad comments. I have a story on now which is clearly in the nonconsent section and received a bad comment or two about how terrible and fucked up it is... My response? You're reading the wrong category of stories if you don't like the subject matter.

So short answer? Take ratings and comments with a grain of salt because they may be coming from someone you were never going to impress in the first place.

That being said, if you're consistently getting low ratings there may be a reason for it. Look back over your work and see if there's some things you can improve on.

Bottom Line: Don't take comments and ratings as the definitive word on your work but don't blatantly ignore them either

 

[2981notrohrm]

I have submitted one story, and the comments I got were totally unrelated to the quality of the story or my writing. Then again, I have heard that Interracial is a hard category to get legitimate feedback.

Also, for a newbie: What exactly is this "H" everyone refers to?

 

[sr71plt]

I have submitted one story, and the comments I got were totally unrelated to the quality of the story or my writing. Then again, I have heard that Interracial is a hard category to get legitimate feedback.

Also, for a newbie: What exactly is this "H" everyone refers to?

When a story registers a vote rating of 4.5 (out of 5--and for as long as it maintains at least that rating), it will be marked in the story lists with a red H (for "hot").

As for the first paragraph, join the club.

 

[Mrtouf]

To be honest, number ratings aren't incredibly useful to me. I'd much rather see (in the story listings) how many comments have been posted on a story. The more comments, the more strongly people feel about the story, the more likely it is that it's going to provoke the same feelings for me.

Of course it's entirely possible to boost the number of comments up to make it look more popular than it really is. So taking away the scores doesn't really change much.

 

[RandallKinds]

I was intensely curious about the ratings after submitting two stories. The second I liked much better than the first so, of course, it got the lower rating. I think ratings might just be a popularity contest - it has not as much to do with the craft as how it tickles the fancies of those who read it.

 

[bigdaleforever]

I'm not incredibly prolific and I've just started writing again after a hiatus of a few years.

I tend to take the ratings very seriously... should I? To the other writers out there who have really highly rated stories or very low rated stories... do you think you deserve those ratings? Do you care?

Just wondering what others think on all of this.

Well I will say that ratings are not something to get concerned about, I posted a story last week and it has met with some nasty comments and low rankings and I'm pretty sure it was because I posted it in the wrong category, but it is just strengthing my resolve to do better next time, in fact I'm toying with the idea of taking some of the comments and putting them in a sequel, and see what response it gets....As for ratings, if you are happy with it, then don't worry about the ratings....they are just numbers, negative comments that point out flaws or errors take as advice on what to fix and hateful remarks, you struck a nerve and that means a lot that they were so torn up that they want to take it out you and take time to do so....

 

[yuna1981]

I'm kind of fascinated at the thought that some categories have readers that tend to be more critical than others. Do you notice patterned differences?

One of my stories has fairly low ratings, but I can contextualize that because it was a piece of writing that tried to do something different in terms of exploring the intersection between tragedy and sex. Not exactly blazin' hot stroke material.

Generally, I'm writing for myself and so I could try to be more crowd-pleasing and ratings-driven, but I would prefer to be true to myself. That being said, what others have already suggested in terms of being open to constructive criticism and improvement is important.

A good writing buddy told me that if you are getting criticism on a specific point, like a character acting oddly or something, to try to explain the motivations behind the character's actions more. I thought that was useful advice, so that even if the reader won't agree with you, at least they know why something is happening the way that it is.

 

[MarlowBunny]

It is absolutely clear to me the the "Incest & Taboo" category has the most readers and the easiest to please readers. I have a story http://www.literotica.com/s/irresistible-little-sister-in-law that is in the "Romance" category and does not include any incest. The story has been viewed 7 times more than my other stories in "Romance" in spite of being my newest. The story also has a high ratio of votes to views. I am convinced that the title alone with its hint at possible incest is what attracts the views. I also suspect that some readers vote low because they are disappointed by the lack of incest even though the category was "Romance."

My first attempt at an incest story, http://www.literotica.com/s/hospital-humiliation, has 79,800+ views in spite of far below average rating. For comparison, my highest rated story is the first one I ever posted, and it only has 17,500+ views in the "Exhibitionist & Voyeur" category. http://www.literotica.com/s/the-simulated-sex

"Loving Wives" is an impossible category for many reasons. There are beautiful stories that are well told in all of the categories except "Loving Wives." I pretend it doesn't exist.

In my own opinion, the worst technical/craft writing is concentrated in "Sci-Fi & Fantasy." Maybe the authors skew toward youth and inexperience. I read there anyway because I like the genre and there are some real gems. It's just sometimes hard to find them.

 

[MarlowBunny]

If you like comments, write some

I love reader comments unless they are just hateful spew. I get some "go an die" feedback occasionally. Following the "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" philosophy works for comments. I comment on any story that I enjoy. Maybe comments are a "pay it forward" thing?

So, if you like comments, write some

 

[CWatson]

I'm kind of fascinated at the thought that some categories have readers that tend to be more critical than others. Do you notice patterned differences?

Well, Loving Wives has the landscape of right-this-moment Japan combined with the citizenry of right-this-moment Libya, so never post there with a ten-foot pole. There's a jihad going on over whether the "adventurous married women" in the description should be having adventures with their husbands or with non-husbands; both stories exist there because Literotica does not have a "Cheating" section. Even worse, cheating is a hot-button topic to begin with. So, yeah. Just... avoid the section.

"Incest" might have more discerning readership simply because it's the most popular section on the site by a pretty large margin, but I have no hard facts for you. (I've also never posted there myself.) [EDIT] After reading Marlow's post above, I think he's got a point. People come to "Incest" mostly for the zing of the taboo; as long as that's presented, they don't care if it comes on a gourmet dinner or a steaming pile of crap. (Good times, eh?)

One of my stories has fairly low ratings, but I can contextualize that because it was a piece of writing that tried to do something different in terms of exploring the intersection between tragedy and sex. Not exactly blazin' hot stroke material.

Generally, I'm writing for myself and so I could try to be more crowd-pleasing and ratings-driven, but I would prefer to be true to myself. That being said, what others have already suggested in terms of being open to constructive criticism and improvement is important.

That's a key point. A lot of readers here don't like to be challenged. Porn is a form of comfort food. Finding unexpected differences in presentation or composition can really ruin people's day. But you know what? Screw 'em. If they can't accept being challenged, that's their problem. I have two stories that really pushed The Reader in uncomfortable directions ("Across The Way" and "90Days ch.13") and the low ratings are proof that I did my job right. (...Mostly. The conclusion to "Across The Way" wasn't set up right, proving your second point as well.)

Long story short, you know what you're talking about. =)