Scene feedback -- Is this argument believable?

SydneyBlake

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Feb 13, 2011
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Hi, and thanks for taking a look at my post. I hope you'll be willing to provide some feedback, too.

Writing arguments is not my strong suit, so I've been struggling with this one scene for at least a week. I think I've finally finished it, more or less, save a few minor edits, so would you mind reading it and telling me what you think?

Thank you in advance!!!

First, a small preview from a previous scene, and then the argument. The argument is between a husband and wife, Derek and Renata. Derek wants to spice up their marriage, but Renata isn't interested in what he has in mind....

*****************

Actually, Derek hadn’t complained about much of anything since they’d hooked up with Sherry. And why would he? Sherry was part of his birthday wish, his fantasy-come-true: to have two women at once. Renata hadn’t been very enthusiastic about the idea at first, but Derek persisted, and Sherry turned out to be really nice.

Still, as much as she liked Sherry, Renata would have been just as happy to have kept other people out of their bedroom. Derek was all that she really wanted, so she couldn’t understand why Derek had wanted more. Why wasn’t she enough? That little question bothered her. She tried to ignore it, but the truth was that it had bothered her for a while.

***

There was nothing like pulling up to the apartment and seeing two blue-jeaned asses hanging out of the engine of a ’75 Corvette convertible. The ‘Vette. The real other woman in Derek’s life. He spent all his spare time with his hands in that engine, not to mention all their spare money.

One ass looked very familiar. The other, not so much, but it probably belonged to Neil, Derek’s buddy from work. Neil had been helping Derek with the engine rebuild for months.

“Hey, baby,” Renata said as she walked through the open garage. She ran her hand along her husband’s backside.

“Hey, gorgeous,” Derek said.

“Hey, gorgeous,” Neil said, “Where’s my grope? Don’t I get a grope?”

“You gotta grow a dick, first,” Derek grunted.

“I have a dick!” Neil yelled, “Hey, Ren, I have a dick!”

“I’m so happy for you, Neil.” What a fuck-up. Renata didn’t want to stand around, discussing Neil’s genitalia. She wanted to get off her feet.

“We got the new carburetor in,” Derek called, but she had already gone inside.

Stepping over Derek’s abandoned pair of Nikes just inside the door, walking past a dining table stacked with car parts, and pushing aside a pile of laundry on the couch before sitting down, Renata collapsed. Then she kicked off her shoes, used a bare foot to push aside Derek’s abandoned dishes from lunch, and propped her feet up on the coffee table. If she had the energy, she’d complain about the mess, but what was the point of that? To start a fight? No. No fights today. She just wanted fifteen minutes to decompress, and then she’d start dinner.

“You okay?” Derek asked as he sauntered in the door. He was wiping his hands on a red shop towel, but there was nothing to be done about the rest of him, short of a full shower – grease-stained t-shirt, grease stained blue jeans, and various smudges on his arms and face. He’d no doubt been working on the car all day.

“Sure. Just tired.” She turned the TV on, even though there was nothing she really wanted to watch. It was more for noise than anything else.

He came around in front of her and picked her feet up so he could sit down on the corner of the table. He set her feet in his lap and began to massage them. “I got her running,” he said with a crooked smile.

Renata groaned as he worked the kinks out of her tired extremities. “Cool,” she muttered.

“I’ll pick up the living room in a bit.”

“Um hm.”

“I love a woman who’s putty in my hands.”

She cracked open an eye and looked at him. He was still smiling at her with that lop-sided grin, and with mischievous green eyes that so resembled her own.

“Hard day?” he asked.

“The usual.”

“Maybe you should transfer to another department. You’ve been in the ER a long time.”

“I know,” she whined, “But I like the ER.”

“I know you do, but it wears you out.”

She held up her middle finger.

“Don’t you flip me off, woman,” he laughed, “Or I’ll bend you over my knee and spank your ass.”

She smiled. “Later.”

“Um hm. You want me to go pick up something for dinner?”

“No, we have chicken in the fridge that needs to be cooked before it goes bad. Is Neil staying?” Please say no.

“No. I want you to myself.”

Renata smiled, “Mmm.”

“We’re cleaning up outside,” he said. He put her feet back on the table, kissed her cheek, and headed back to the garage. She watched her husband’s wiry, five-foot-ten frame as he walked away with his usual smartass swagger. His honey-streaked hair was too long, grazing the tops of his square shoulders, and, for some reason, he really did it for her. Even after all these years.

Soon, the small apartment was full of the aromas of grilling chicken breasts, asparagus spears, and pan-seared potatoes. Renata was standing in front of the fridge, deciding on which wine to serve, when she felt the warmth of Derek’s body against her back. Fresh from the shower, he smelled like deodorant soap. She felt his fingers pushing her hair aside, and his lips on her ear. “If we ever get the same day off,” he said, “We’ll have to take the ‘Vette for a ride up the coast.”

“Is that bitch finally going to start paying her way?” Renata asked playfully.

“I hope so,” he said. He reached past her and grabbed a potato and popped it in his mouth. “Are we about ready to eat? I’m starving.”

“Just a few minutes,” she said. She watched him out of the corner of her eye while she prepared their plates. He’d thrown on a clean t-shirt and a pair of gray cut-off sweatpants, and he was standing in the kitchen doorway, looking at the TV while he scratched his flat belly. The pants barely hung onto his narrow hips, and a thin line of brown curls that started at his navel disappeared into the loose waistband.

She wanted to follow that little patch of curls. It wouldn’t take much, just a hand to his crotch and he’d be ready to go. She liked that about him, his always being on call at a moment’s notice.

But they were both hungry, and dinner would get cold if she did that. It would have to wait until later. She handed him his plate and a glass of white wine, and he retreated to the living room.

“Man, Ren, this is good,” Derek said as he shoved a huge chunk of chicken into his mouth. With the dining table overcome with auto parts, they’d grown accustomed to sitting on the couch in front of the TV. A rerun of Two-and-a-Half Men was playing.

As she rounded the corner to take her seat on the couch, her eye caught the mess on the dining table. “If you’re done with the ‘Vette, do you think I could have my table back? It would be nice to eat like normal people.”

“Actually,” Derek said, “I think this is the new normal.”

“This is not normal. I go through the trouble of cooking a nice meal, and I just think it would be nice to sit down and enjoy it the way it’s supposed to be enjoyed.” There she was, complaining when she’d told herself earlier that she wouldn’t.

“You’re right,” he said, “I’ll get you your table. Tomorrow.”

She didn’t trust completely that it would happen, but she did know that he meant it. It was just that when Derek got absorbed into something, like the Corvette, he tended to lose sight of anything else. She decided to make small talk rather than pursue a clean table further. “So what did Neil have to say? Anything interesting that didn’t involve his privates? Is he still dating that girl in Oakland?”

“Yeah. He was heading to her house when he left.”

“I’m surprised she puts up with him.”

“Neil’s okay.”

“I know he’s your friend, but he’s not too sharp. I don’t think I’d ever consider him boyfriend material.”

“Maybe not, but he knows cars. I wouldn’t have gotten that engine running if it hadn’t been for him.”

“So if I get my table back, I have Neil to thank?”

“Only if I get to watch.”

Of course, Derek’s idea of expressing gratitude would involve something sexual -- there was a reason why he and Renata got along so well. But the thought of screwing Neil was not appealing for several reasons, not the least of them being that he wasn’t Derek. “No, thank you.”

“What’s wrong with Neil?”

“You would really want to watch Neil with me? Ew.”

He smiled. “I’ve watched you with Sherry. You don’t seem to mind that.”

“That’s different. For starters, she’s not Neil.”

“Okay, it wouldn’t have to be Neil. You could pick.”

Renata sighed tiredly. “You can’t be serious.” Why were they having this discussion again? How did they go from small talk back to this?

“You wouldn’t want to do that for me?” he asked.

“Why would you want me to do that?”

“Because it would be hot.”

“I think we have plenty of hot.” Seriously, how many women at work did she hear grumble that they just didn’t need sex anymore? Meanwhile, she was counting the hours when she could get home to Derek. Did he just not know how lucky he was?

“That, we do.” Derek stared at the TV, but his mind was somewhere else. “That was fun last night. Did you ever think you’d do a chick?”

“That’s really just for you, you know.” She avoided telling him that yes, there were some women that she found attractive. The point was that it wasn’t something she would have ever acted upon if it hadn’t been for him.

“And I appreciate it,” he said.

Did he?

He put his empty plate on the table and slid closer to her. He leaned in and kissed her neck. He was warm and damp, and his jaw was rough with whiskers. He whispered between kisses, “But don’t tell me you do that just for me. You get off on it as much as I do.”

“Maybe,” she sighed. Maybe he annoyed the hell out of her sometimes, but she never ceased to love his touch. He continued nuzzling her neck, kissing and nibbling her skin. She felt that warm, tingling sensation start to spread through her body. God, she’d wanted him since she’d walked in the door.

“Think about it,” he said huskily as his hand started to slide up her leg. “You could ride some stud, knowing you’re driving me nuts.”

“But you’re the stud I want.” The thought of having him inside her again was getting her excited.

“You have me. You could have him, too. You need to see the email.”

Mention of an email sent her libido into a code. “What email?” This was not good.

He was either unaware of the chill emanating from her, or trying to overcome it. He was still kissing her, and his voice was low and sexy. “The one we got today,” he said, “From a couple in Oakland. They want to meet us.”

She put her hand on his chest and pushed him back. “Why are we getting emails? I thought we suspended that account since we found Sherry.”

He smiled sheepishly. “Well, I wanted to see if we’d get any bites.” He tried to lean into her again.

Renata pushed him away again. “No.”

“What do you mean, ‘no’? Come on, Ren, you promised.”

“I promised to try a threesome. We’ve done a threesome.”

“And look how much you like it.”

“I like Sherry. I’m not interested in fucking the entire Bay Area. You said you’d suspended that account. You promised me that you did.” Looking for any reason to escape him, she grabbed the dirty dishes and carried them to the kitchen, where she nearly threw them into the sink.

“I’m just talking about--“

“I know what you’re talking about,” she yelled from the kitchen, even though she was only a few yards behind him, “You’re afraid you’ve missed out on something because we married so young. Do you have any idea how that makes me feel?”

“Well, don’t you ever feel that way?” He got up and followed her.

“No, I don’t.” She was swinging open the dishwasher, jerking the trays out, and nearly throwing the dishes inside. “What do I have to fucking do, Derek?” she snapped.

“You never think about sex with other guys?” He was trying to sooth her. He slid in behind her, pressed himself against her ass, and slid his hands down her hips.

But she was not having any of it. “I may be attracted to other guys. That doesn’t mean I want to screw them. My God, Derek!” She spun around and pushed him away.

“You wouldn’t even do it for me?” He leaned into her again.

“Why? Why would you want me to?” She was not going to cry. Do not cry. Fucking do not cry.

“’Cuz it would be hot to watch.” He nuzzled her neck.

“Oh, rent a porn, for God’s sake.” She pushed him away again.

“To watch you.” He put his hands on her hips and slid them down her buttocks. “To watch you move the way you move. To watch you come.”

She’d had enough. She pushed him away, and before she could even think about it, her hand instinctively slapped his face. A bright red handprint instantly appeared on his cheek. “Snap out of it, Derek! I’m tired of this shit!”

Derek’s eyes narrowed and his face reddened. Anger. Finally. “No, I’m the one’s who’s tired of this shit.” He abruptly turned away from her and marched for the door, grabbing his Nikes and his keys on the way out. The door slammed behind him, and then she heard the roar of the Stingray’s engine as he started it up and left.

She finally felt her own rage start to bubble up and boil over. Why did he want this? Why did he want this? Fucking asshole!

She would hit something if she thought it would do any good, but it never did, she just wound up hurting herself.

Fucking asshole.

She swung open the bottom cabinet door, grabbed the bottle of dish soap, and squeezed some into the machine. Then she slammed the door shut and pressed the start button.

Fucking asshole.

She shoved the plug into the drain, slammed on the hot water, and poured some cleaner in. When she got pissed off, she cleaned. This fucking apartment was going to be so fucking clean, it would fucking sparkle.

“You’d better be careful what you fucking wish for,” she growled. What she meant, she wasn’t really sure. She just had the vague feeling that his seeing her with another man would not bring him the high he was looking for, but it would bring tremendous grief, for which she would pay the price.

She’d already told him that, too. But just like before, he kept coming back to it. And since she eventually gave on the first, he had no reason to believe that she wouldn’t give on this one. He just had to pitch enough fits.

So how many fights were they going to have to have before he would drop it forever? And would she be able to stick it out for that long?

****AN ALTERNATE ENDING IS GIVEN IN ANOTHER POST (#11, I THINK)****

Two hours later, she was lying in bed, but wide awake. She heard the back door close, Derek’s keys drop on the table, and then he was quietly crawling across the bed behind her. “Ren? I’m a dick. I’m sorry.” She felt his hand on her arm.

“Why have you gone off on this?” she asked.

“I don’t know. I just thought it would be fun. I don’t want to hurt you.”

She rolled over onto her back to face him. “Aren’t we okay? We aren’t broken, are we?”

“I know. I’m sorry.” He kissed her.

She wanted to be mad at him. He deserved it. She shouldn’t reward him with sex. She shouldn’t. But she still wanted him. She needed him. She needed his warmth, his touch, to feel him beside her, on top of her, inside her, possessing her. So she softened her mouth and welcomed his kiss.

As their kiss grew more passionate, he slid his hand beneath her cami and found her nipple and began to tweak it with his fingers. “I love you, baby,” he said.

“I love you, too.”
 
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I have to agree with the previous poster, Derek is a jerk. In fact, at this point, I'd rather see Ren leave him than for her to give in so you can write an MMF scene.

The argument is fine. The fact that she seems so "under his spell" in terms of his touch, etc., rubs me the wrong way and I didn't like the resolution either. Ren makes very good points -- that basically Derek wore her down, that he will not like to see her with another man as much as he thinks he will, and that since she gave in before, he has no reason to think she won't again. Even if she enjoyed the FFM threesome, it doesn't have to mean she wants to repeat it.

I, too, want Renata to stick up for herself, to leave him, if necessary. Derek is oblivious, if not consciously insensitive, about her feelings, and not just sexually. The whole thing with the car points it up as well. It is not too much to ask to have a table back, and he just doesn't see her side.

A more likely resolution to your argument would have been Derek either sleeping on the couch, or Renata turning away from him.
 
I Most Respectfully Except

It takes much more temerity than I usually can muster to dispute with an author of Penn Lady’s stature, or to disagree with one who has publicly acknowledged my editorial skills like SurelyWilder, but I must, with the greatest respect, except.

Both Penn and Surely (sounds like a great sitcom title) have made rational, adult replies. I am sure neither would put up with a type like Derek for even fortyfive seconds. But this is erotic fiction. Let us assume that Renata is neither Penn nor Surely. Let us assume Renata lacks the confidence, grace and self-possession of Penn and Surely.

Further, let us assume Derek pushed Renata to the breaking point, but not beyond. She decides, "OK, dickhead, be careful what you asked for, you’re gonna get it.” She contacts Dr Feng, who works in the Urology Department, the next day. Dr Feng, who has shall we say “attempted her chastity” on other occasions, is a sadist and knows well how to exercise his predilections on an obstreperous male. Dr Feng’s wife, Katinka, is a bisexual borderline submissive.

Renata enlists the Fengs. Let the games begin! Derek is tortured to near-insanity over two days by the invidious Feng. As he hangs suspended by whatever, Derek watches Feng receive his reward from Renata. Katinka then submits to Renata.

Releasing Derek from his bondage, Renata serves Derek with the summons for divorce by ramming the papers up his ass (I know, improper service, she’s a party, but throw me a bone here). Then she leaves, taking all her personal belongings, and goes to dinner with the Fengs before starting a new life.

Think it works, Syd?
 
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I can see where strong willed women would take issue with the setup. However, not all women are created equal, and I could see myself falling into this trap once upon a time…

She knows he is going to persist, she knows she will have to pay the price of his foolish little tantrums, and she is totally aware that he will win and knows the outcome isn’t going to be good. Who hasn’t been pressured into doing something they didn’t want to do? How is this any different than being pressured into drinking by some totally hot dude when you absolutely know you will regret it?

I agree that he is an ass, and as far as husbands go he is not a great person, but as a set up for a story it is just about perfect. And as much as I like the above scenario, revenge would be just as sweet if she were to fall for her new male partner if she went with a threesome or was totally turned on with the foursome and he didn’t like it. Or even (shudder) fell for Neil; sure he is a creeper, but maybe a better man, lol.

Sydney, keep up the good work. I wish I could nail my characters so clearly and work such clear dialogue (Especially while keeping it real).
 
Sydney,

FWIW, I want to eat the snippet you posted with a spoon then lick the bowl clean. Such great scene setting and rich characters. You read, to me, like a shrewd writer. Your spider-sense was tingling on this scene for a good reason. Trust your gut, girlie.

I too think that Renata's reaction to Derrick's return was inconsistent with the rest of what you presented about her character. The Renata I have sketched out in my head isn't so easily quieted and wouldn't so easily submit to Derrick's childish insistence. The Renata in my head would take Derrick's professed desire to see her making love to a man and resolve it, amicably but sexily, by secretly videotaping her and her hubby having sex, then burning him a DVD of the interlude and telling him to watch it whenever he likes. Problem solved in sitcom-esque style.

What you laid out is rich enough that I have no problem picturing it going in any number of directions. If you have your heart set on the straight line headed for a MMF scene, I think you either need to retool your characters or have Derrick concoct a more compelling argument than please please please please followed by stomping out and driving off like a schmuck. As a male reader, I want him to do, or at least try, better.

My $0.02. G'luck.

-Paco

ETA: And still tittering over estragon's non-FRCP service of process joke. You funny f*cker. :rose:
 
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Awesome feedback!

Just wanted to pipe in and say that I am loving the feedback! And it's a valid point about the resolution. I have rewritten it already.

And lol estragon!

Just an fyi, this is just one scene in a much more complicated story that won't really go any further into the idea of moresomes, but you guys are great!

Thanks so much!!!

Syd
 
Estragon--

Disagreement is fine. It's what makes discussion fun. :)

Both Penn and Surely (sounds like a great sitcom title) have made rational, adult replies. I am sure neither would put up with a type like Derek for even fortyfive seconds. But this is erotic fiction. Let us assume that Renata is neither Penn nor Surely. Let us assume Renata lacks the confidence, grace and self-possession of Penn and Surely.

This may be. I'm not saying I wouldn't give in to some pressure -- everyone will probably go a little beyond what they thought was their comfort zone to please someone they love, and some of those everyones might do something even more than that. However, Renata appears to be a smart woman, who is wrestling with this question of what her husband wants and why she isn't enough for him. If she is at that point, she has some confidence and self-possession.

Renata enlists the Fengs. Let the games begin! Derek is tortured to near-insanity over two days by the invidious Feng. As he hangs suspended by whatever, Derek watches Feng receive his reward from Renata. Katinka then submits to Renata.

Releasing Derek from his bondage, Renata serves Derek with the summons for divorce by ramming the papers up his ass (I know, improper service, she’s a party, but throw me a bone here). Then she leaves, taking all her personal belongings, and goes to dinner with the Fengs before starting a new life.

hahah! Revenge can be sweet and kinky and of course the best revenge is living well. ;)

Some of this may be a male/female division. I'm sure I've said this a number of times, so I'll just keep it short -- a romance, or erotic, story (often) needs a strong, independent woman to make it work. Now some enjoy reading about spineless women, and men, so I'm just generalizing. Nor do I mean a woman has to be an in-your-face Amazon. A quiet, unassuming woman may have more strength than anyone realizes, and a self-confident woman doesn't have to go around emasculating men.

I'm just saying that in this particular scene, the resolution doesn't match the argument. While Derek is out, Renata does not, for instance, talk herself into forgiving him. As I recall, more the opposite. Then he comes in -- and we can add storming out like a child to his list of faults -- makes the barest of apologies and not only does she accept it, she has sex with him.

I think the conflict could be drawn out more, and she could still give in to his demands out of either self-doubt or curiosity. I mean, I wouldn't even take issue with Renata reviewing things in her mind, deciding that she did in fact enough the FFM threesome, and hey, why shouldn't she enjoy herself since her husband is such a jerk? But it's all in the foundation, and the foundation wasn't quite laid for that resolution.
 
Penn, When You're Right, You're Right

"I'm just saying that in this particular scene, the resolution doesn't match the argument. While Derek is out, Renata does not, for instance, talk herself into forgiving him. As I recall, more the opposite. Then he comes in -- and we can add storming out like a child to his list of faults -- makes the barest of apologies and not only does she accept it, she has sex with him."

Agreed, the resolution is sufficiently out of synch with the argument so that the mismatch is jarring. Of course people are inconsistent. Renata could be conflicted any number of ways to Sunday. But out of the possible responses, the one she chose does jar, like hitting a speed bump a bit too fast. Renata caves to Derek too easily. Maybe there's room to play it out some more.

But Syd, you've written a great dialog. Great pace, and the characters are vivid. So write it your way, and go right down the lane to the basket! (Oh yes it is March, isn't it.)
 
I think that the end scene works if you add some sort of devious plotting (the details of which need not be revealed straight away) that allows Ren to pretend to forgive Derek so he isn't expecting payback. Make her vindictive enough that the reader sympathises with Derek a little, even if it's followed shortly by evil laughter as they read on to see what will befall him.
 
Intelligent feedback is so refreshing

Surelywilder – Just wanted to repeat a thank you. You’re right, I got lazy with that resolution. Not because I’m trying to rush into a sex scene, but because I’m trying to convey Renata’s love for Derek. They’ve been married a long time and, up until now, have had a good marriage. The purpose of the scene is to demonstrate that all is not well in paradise.

PennLady – Yes, it is definitely appropriate for Renata to start thinking about leaving Derek. I really appreciate your analysis of her character. That’s exactly what I’m trying to show.

Estragon – Dr. Feng, the urologist; Katinka; suspension on whatevers; and other words I need to look up, ah, I love new words. LOL. That will have to wait for the next installment. Of course, this IS San Francisco, so nothing’s out of the question.

Passing – Thank you very much for your comments. It really helps to know what I got right, too.

PacoFear – “Eat it with a spoon and lick the bowl”!!!! LOVE IT! Thanks again. You’ve definitely helped me rethink the resolution.

Mrtouf – Thank you!

All – Intelligent feedback is so refreshing! Ok….enough of this….must go write the next scene………

Syd
 
***alternate Ending***

I've rewritten the resolution to this scene. Please let me know what you think.

Syd

*******

So how many fights were they going to have to have before he would drop it forever? And would she be able to stick it out for that long?

She already was running out of steam.

Two hours later, she was lying in bed, but wide awake. Her initial anger had dissipated somewhat, and she was starting to question the wisdom of slapping him. She knew how mad that would make him. She knew he’d leave. He’d leave because if he didn’t, he might do something they’d both regret. But it didn’t seem like she could get his attention any other way.

And now she was starting to worry. He still hadn’t returned from wherever the hell it was that he went. He liked driving – it was what he did for a living, after all – and with the Corvette running now, he could be anywhere. She didn’t worry about his screwing around behind her back. Derek could be a jerk sometimes, but he wasn’t a cheater. Still, it was unusual for him to be gone for so long.

She was wondering if she should call him, just to make sure he wasn’t floating upside down off Fisherman’s Wharf. No sooner did the idea form in her head, than her cell phone rang. She wasn’t sure whether to sound angry or worried when she answered. She opted for a neutral “Hello.”

“Ren? I’m a dick. I’m sorry.”

True. “Where are you?”

“I’m in the city.” His voice faltered. “The, uh, ‘Vette died.”

She smiled, but somehow managed to keep from laughing out loud. Sigh. Angry voice. “Do I need to come get you?”

“No. I’ll get it running again. I just didn’t want you to worry.”

“Okay.”

“Ren?”

“What?” Still angry.

“I’m serious. I’m sorry. I don’t want to hurt you. I’ll delete the account. You won’t hear anything more about it.”

“You told me that before, Derek. Why am I supposed to believe you now?”

“I know. I was being stupid. I wasn’t thinking about you.”

“And what led you to this great epiphany?”

“Just thinking. You know I do my best thinking behind the wheel.”

“Um hm. I’m listening.”

“Well, I was pissed at first, thinking that you never did anything for me. Then I thought about how you left your family to be with me. You gave up the chance to have kids to be with me. You moved all the way across the country to be with me. I realized that everything you do, you do for me.”

“I do it for us, Derek.”

“I know. All I’ve been thinking about lately is myself. I don’t know why. Maybe you’re right. Maybe something in me feels like I’ve missed out on something because we got married so young. I looked at Neil and thought he looked like he was having the time of his life. But I know that’s bullshit. Neil’s the loneliest guy I know. He’d trade places with me in a heartbeat.”

Renata sighed. For the first time in a long time, Derek was talking sense again. What had happened to lead him astray in the first place? She may never know, and she didn’t care, really, as long as he got his senses back.

But she couldn’t afford to let him off too easily. “Look, there’s something you need to know,” she said, “I love you-“

“I love you, too.”

“No, Derek, listen to me. I love you. With every fiber of my being, I love you. But don’t think for one second that I won’t leave.”

“Ren-“

“I’m serious. If this comes up again, I will leave. I’ll be gone. You know I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t mean it.”

“I know. It won’t. I promise.”

“I’m serious.”

“I know.” His voice cracked.

Was he crying? Derek never cried. He’d cried at his father’s funeral when he was a teenager, but that was it. “Okay,” she said, “Come home as soon as you can.”

“I will, as soon as I get the car started.”

“Are you sure you don’t want me to come get you?”

“No, I don’t want to leave the car here.”

“We can get a tow for the car.”

“No, that’s a waste of money. I can get it started. Besides, something happened on the bridge. Traffic on the highway is backed up all the way into downtown.”

“Are you on the highway?”

“No, I’m on Market. Don’t worry. I’ll be all right. I’ll be home soon.”
 
But she couldn’t afford to let him off too easily. “Look, there’s something you need to know,” she said, “I love you-“

“I love you, too.”

“No, Derek, listen to me. I love you. With every fiber of my being, I love you. But don’t think for one second that I won’t leave.”

“Ren-“

“I’m serious. If this comes up again, I will leave. I’ll be gone. You know I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t mean it.”

“I know. It won’t. I promise.”

“I’m serious.”

“I know.” His voice cracked.

Great adjustment, Syd. Particularly the portion from the exchange above. Its rhythm and pitch ring just right to my ear for two people who've been together for awhile, care about each other deeply, but stumble every now and then. Bravo.

-PF
 
Syd,

This is a good adjustment, but one thing caught my eye. This graph:

Two hours later, she was lying in bed, but wide awake. Her initial anger had dissipated somewhat, and she was starting to question the wisdom of slapping him. She knew how mad that would make him. She knew he’d leave. He’d leave because if he didn’t, he might do something they’d both regret. But it didn’t seem like she could get his attention any other way.

This really makes Derek sound like a dangerous guy, perhaps even a borderline abuser. I'm not sure you wanted to make him that dark. I understand what you mean, but it might be a little much.
 
Hi Syd-

I agree with Paco. I think this is a much better ending. Yay! I have a few quibbles (of course) below. But overall, I think you've done a great job.

First, I really liked this line in the original ending.

She rolled over onto her back to face him. “Aren’t we okay? We aren’t broken, are we?”

In my mind, there is a difference between Person A telling Person B that they love them (and vice versa), and confirmation that the relationship is ok. If you don't want Ren to ask, perhaps Derek can ask "Are we ok?" or something.

Or maybe you don't want things to be ok yet, in which case stating so can help the reader understand where the relationship is at this moment. She threatens to leave him. Is she saying that things aren't ok yet, or that they are but he's on notice? I'm a little confused about their status right now.

Second, Derek's speeches seem a little too good.

“Well, I was pissed at first, thinking that you never did anything for me. Then I thought about how you left your family to be with me. You gave up the chance to have kids to be with me. You moved all the way across the country to be with me. I realized that everything you do, you do for me.”

“I do it for us, Derek.”

“I know. All I’ve been thinking about lately is myself. I don’t know why. Maybe you’re right. Maybe something in me feels like I’ve missed out on something because we got married so young. I looked at Neil and thought he looked like he was having the time of his life. But I know that’s bullshit. Neil’s the loneliest guy I know. He’d trade places with me in a heartbeat.”

This guy is pouring his heart out to his wife, and there isn't a single "uh" or "um" (even though he had an "uh" when just trying to tell her that the car died). Either he's a fantastic public speaker, or this is rehearsed. My guess is the latter. That's fine, but if she knows him, then she knows it's rehearsed. She knows that he probably started rehearsing as soon as that car turned out of the driveway, and that makes his admissions that much sweeter.

Then again, maybe I'm the only one who has problems when trying to explain my feelings on the fly without lots of hemming and hawing and repeating. :eek:

Third... the slap. I kind of cringed the first time I read it, and hoped that you would remove it. But it's still here.

If a man slapped a woman across the face--out of anger or frustration, or just by accident--you'd probably have quite the negative reaction from readers. Maybe readers are ok with women slapping men, but in my mind, if we women (I'm assuming you're a woman... sorry if I just de-balled you) call men who slap their wives abusive (even if it's just once), then the logic has to hold the other way around.

Worse, this section seems to imply some degree of premeditation:

Her initial anger had dissipated somewhat, and she was starting to question the wisdom of slapping him. She knew how mad that would make him. She knew he’d leave. He’d leave because if he didn’t, he might do something they’d both regret. But it didn’t seem like she could get his attention any other way.

Bedroom slapping = ok. Non-bedroom slapping out of anger = not ok, or at least, not ok in my mind. And what is this something they'd both regret? When mentioned after a slap, it's kind of creepy.

If you want her to get his attention and you want it to be physical, he can always have his hands on her upper arms while pleading with her, and she can wrench her arms away in such a way that his hands fly away. Or she can kick a drawer and leave a mark. Or throw something into the sink that makes a loud noise. Even just stomping and shouting enough would get his attention, right?

Even if you don't think a slap is abusive, it reeks of childishness and does not fit with this otherwise confident woman. I love her character... except for that damn slap that makes her seem borderline abusive, childish, and hypocritical.

Finally... Derek still seems like a bit of an ass. I'm sure he isn't, but he still kind of seems like one. I don't know if you've included this elsewhere, but some nice memories of him while she's lying on the bed wouldn't be bad. I have no idea why this woman loves this kind of annoying man.
 
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Tatyana has some good points.

I'd forgotten about the slap. I do think, yes, most people treat a woman slapping a man differently from the other way around, for lots of reasons. I can't say it bothered me, or felt out of character; Renata had been pushed and pushed and was very frustrated. It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't raise the "abuse" flags that the later statement of Derek having to leave to avoid doing something he'd/they'd regret does. I'd also say that a man could be driven to slap his wife/SO much as Renata has been and it wouldn't be abuse, at least not in the classic sense. Again, not right, but different.

As for the missing Uhs and Ums -- again, it didn't bother me. For one thing, if we put those in every time we had a character speak more than a sentence or two, stories would be twice as long. I think I tend to put those in myself, not even consciously. Second, even if it was rehearsed, that doesn't mean it's false or he's insincere. It could be that he went over in his head what he wanted to say enough times that he didn't need to pause; essentially, he could have memorized it. Now, if he has a history of feeding Renata a line, and she's clued into it, then that could be the case here and would add an extra layer of...something. Suspense. :)
 
He Who Gets Slapped

Wasn't that Gogol, or was it Turgenev, or Chekov (Anton, not Pavel the Trekkie)? No, dear ol' Wikipedia says it was Andreyev. Anyway, when He Who Gets Slapped, gets slapped, it shouldn't put off any Lit readers, whatever it may do to the heightened and refined sensibilities of the authors. A vestige of evolutionary sexism, that.

Of course, Derek used his head when he left, for if he lifted a hand to dear Renata, she'd have had him cuffed and cooling off in the local hoosegow inside five minutes, with an Order of Protection out against him before the cock did crow (that's the rooster, for you filthy-minded types).

As for his "confession", I'm sure he rehearsed it while trying to reattach the timing chain that went for a Burton on the ol' 'vette just as he got off the Interstate. Folks, maybe this birdbrain finally got the point--he had to get it right; no second-place winner in this shootout.

Maybe a wee voice penetrated his gasoline-soaked consciousness as he stood beside his pride and joy: "dinna' drop this lassie, fer ye'll no' find a better sae quick," as we say in the highlands of Litland. Renata is good stuff, Derek me lad, so speak the speech as Syd pronounced it to you, trippingly on the tongue, and do not mouth your lines, as I have heard some of your players do, else I had sooner the town crier speak my lines. And do not saw the air thus--but enough already.
 
Second, even if it was rehearsed, that doesn't mean it's false or he's insincere. It could be that he went over in his head what he wanted to say enough times that he didn't need to pause; essentially, he could have memorized it.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say with sweeter, but you said it much better.

And syd, let me say again (because my previous post might have been harsh and ranty :eek:) that I really enjoy your writing style.
 
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Thank you, thank you, thank you....

For that awesome feedback! I may rethink the slap, but overall, I think we've gone where I intended to go.

Syd
 
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