Westboro Baptist wins

[SeaCat]

But more importantly Free Speech wins.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/02/scotus.westboro.church/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Cat

 

[Stella_Omega]

Did you ever wonder how WBC pays for all those plane flights and stuff?

They goad people into doing something illegal against them. Then they sue for rights infringement, and win. In this case, they got out of a monetary responsibility that had been awarded someone else.

 

[SeaCat]

Did you ever wonder how WBC pays for all those plane flights and stuff?

They goad people into doing something illegal against them. Then they sue for rights infringement, and win. In this case, they got out of a monetary responsibility that had been awarded someone else.

Interesting although I never really thought about it. (Although it does make sense, in a scummy way.)

What honestly amazes me is the self restraint of people at their protests. They push emotional buttons with their protests and so far no one has responded physicaly. (That I have heard of.)

Cat

 

[Stella_Omega]

Interesting although I never really thought about it. (Although it does make sense, in a scummy way.)

What honestly amazes me is the self restraint of people at their protests. They push emotional buttons with their protests and so far no one has responded physicaly. (That I have heard of.)

Cat

I am equally amazed, truthfully. I don't really understand it, in fact.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

No, it means that the rest of us are better people than they are . . . and we know that if we do to them as they deserve they will claim martyrdom and call it a win! You know, like Saddam did when we chased his ass out of Kuwait.

 

[stephen55]

I think it's time to say it. Eight of the nine US Supreme Court judges are fucked in the head. They are convinced that... well, I'm not sure what they are convinced of, but it sure isn't Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Albert Synder perhaps said it best. "My first thought was that eight justices don't have the common sense that God gave a goat," he said. "We found out today that we can no longer bury our dead in this county with dignity."

No, you can't, Albert. I must admit I also thought that you should be able to do just that, but the Supreme Court disagrees with you.

If you think you are free of the fear of having a cross burned on your lawn, you're not. The Supreme Court has made that clear as well.

Yup, yup, yup...eight fucked in the head dipshits who believe that the right to be fucktards trumps common decency. The hell of it is, they all know at the gut level that they are being well paid to stand up for an idea who's time has gone.

Since when do a free people have to stand chained to an amendment that can be itself amended at the stroke of a pen? Just what the fuck is wrong with you people? Fred Phelps and his lawyer brats are laughing at you. They are, right now, busting a gut over your inability to bury a fallen soldier with peace and dignity. They are howling at your impotence. And you fucking deserve it!!

Do you have any idea what would have happened if the Westboro types actually had shown the balls to picket the funeral of a fallen member of, say the PPCLI? (Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry) Several years ago they threatened to...and for some reason, didn't show up.

Maybe, just maybe, it's because Canadian military types think that a decent funeral for one of their fallen comrades is more important than the fucking Westboro's fucking First Amendment and the Westboro types figured it out.

Back home, they have the Supreme Fucked Up Court to hide behind and you don't have the balls to do anything about it.

Hey Americans who think that common decency is actually a good thing, how's that First Amendment working for you today? Don't want to change it? There's a family of fucktards in Topeka Kansas who are laughing at you.

Cherished freedoms that are free of any responsibilities...equals Westboro Baptist Church.

It's what happens when you live in a Constitutional Republic instead of a Parliamentary Democracy.

 

[sr71plt]

Just a point. Your lawn is a different place, legally, than public space is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Just a point. Your lawn is a different place, legally, than public space is.

Well, Cat knows that.

He knows, for instance, that he can turn on his yard sprinklers (which pump out reclaimed sewage water) REAL HIGH even though there are Westboro church-going folk trying to shelter from the rain under his porch awning...

 

[Tio_Narratore]

It seems to me that Taliban soldiers are also being killed, and following the Westboro logic, that must mean that God is punishing them because Afghanistan in a homosexual country. Perhaps we can send that righteous congregation over to Khandahar with their message of divine love and justice. Afghanistan does have freedom of speech, doesn't it?

 

[JackLuis]

It seems to me that Taliban soldiers are also being killed, and following the Westboro logic, that must mean that God is punishing them because Afghanistan in a homosexual country. Perhaps we can send that righteous congregation over to Khandahar with their message of divine love and justice. Afghanistan does have freedom of speech, doesn't it?

They will need some political help though, perhaps Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz will go along to help them spread the word?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Maybe lotsa folks agree with Westboro.

 

[squarejohn]

This Westboro Baptist Church, if I heard correctly, has only eleven members and is not even Baptist.

I would like to see some punishment exacted on these creatures, but I agree with the Supremes' ruling. Either you can say what's on your mind, or you can't. I have faith that the familiar saying, "what goes around comes around," is true. Or, to put it in a churchy way, "you reap what you sow."

There was a movie on TV a few years back, which was supposed to be based on fact, about a real, mean, dangerous and brutal citizen. The other citizens of the small farming town had all been individually frightened, humiliated, and hurt by this bastard.

The law-abiding townsfolk asked the law for help, but time after time, the law could do nothing for them. There was no legal cause to arrest him (no evidence, no witnesses, no clues). I seem to remember that he was taken in a couple of times and managed to beat the rap.

Well, the townfolk were all waiting for him after he had left a shop in which he insulted and threatened the shopkeeper. He got into his pickup truck and all the farmers and townsfolk raised their deer rifles and put an end to him. To this day, no witnesses, have been found who saw the shooting.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, Cat knows that.

He knows, for instance, that he can turn on his yard sprinklers (which pump out reclaimed sewage water) REAL HIGH even though there are Westboro church-going folk trying to shelter from the rain under his porch awning...

My point of order was to Stephen55.

Beyond that, I have no interest in this argument. This is a situation where I'd be quite happy to turn my back and go la la la while the relatives of the guy getting buried worked the Baptists over on the public street.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I think it's time to say it. Eight of the nine US Supreme Court judges are fucked in the head. They are convinced that... well, I'm not sure what they are convinced of, but it sure isn't Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Albert Synder perhaps said it best. "My first thought was that eight justices don't have the common sense that God gave a goat," he said. "We found out today that we can no longer bury our dead in this county with dignity."

No, you can't, Albert. I must admit I also thought that you should be able to do just that, but the Supreme Court disagrees with you.

If you think you are free of the fear of having a cross burned on your lawn, you're not. The Supreme Court has made that clear as well.

Yup, yup, yup...eight fucked in the head dipshits who believe that the right to be fucktards trumps common decency. The hell of it is, they all know at the gut level that they are being well paid to stand up for an idea who's time has gone.

Since when do a free people have to stand chained to an amendment that can be itself amended at the stroke of a pen? Just what the fuck is wrong with you people? Fred Phelps and his lawyer brats are laughing at you. They are, right now, busting a gut over your inability to bury a fallen soldier with peace and dignity. They are howling at your impotence. And you fucking deserve it!!

Do you have any idea what would have happened if the Westboro types actually had shown the balls to picket the funeral of a fallen member of, say the PPCLI? (Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry) Several years ago they threatened to...and for some reason, didn't show up.

Maybe, just maybe, it's because Canadian military types think that a decent funeral for one of their fallen comrades is more important than the fucking Westboro's fucking First Amendment and the Westboro types figured it out.

Back home, they have the Supreme Fucked Up Court to hide behind and you don't have the balls to do anything about it.

Hey Americans who think that common decency is actually a good thing, how's that First Amendment working for you today? Don't want to change it? There's a family of fucktards in Topeka Kansas who are laughing at you.

Cherished freedoms that are free of any responsibilities...equals Westboro Baptist Church.

It's what happens when you live in a Constitutional Republic instead of a Parliamentary Democracy.

I agree Stephen, it seems the fucktards have forgotten to learn from past mistakes. Racial discrimination was abolished from Freedom of Speech and it has set a precident. What's the difference from showing that same hatred towards GLBT persons. How they could miss that point is beyond me, but it seems the "Moral Right" can slip a couple of bucks here and there and make it go away.

Americans should amass and have that ruling overturned, before further injustice is committed to its citizens.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This Westboro Baptist Church, if I heard correctly, has only eleven members and is not even Baptist.

I would like to see some punishment exacted on these creatures, but I agree with the Supremes' ruling. Either you can say what's on your mind, or you can't. I have faith that the familiar saying, "what goes around comes around," is true. Or, to put it in a churchy way, "you reap what you sow."

There was a movie on TV a few years back, which was supposed to be based on fact, about a real, mean, dangerous and brutal citizen. The other citizens of the small farming town had all been individually frightened, humiliated, and hurt by this bastard.

The law-abiding townsfolk asked the law for help, but time after time, the law could do nothing for them. There was no legal cause to arrest him (no evidence, no witnesses, no clues). I seem to remember that he was taken in a couple of times and managed to beat the rap.

Well, the townfolk were all waiting for him after he had left a shop in which he insulted and threatened the shopkeeper. He got into his pickup truck and all the farmers and townsfolk raised their deer rifles and put an end to him. To this day, no witnesses, have been found who saw the shooting.

I find that most folks who get upset about words secretly fear the speaker may be right.

 

[stephen55]

My point of order was to Stephen55.

Beyond that, I have no interest in this argument. This is a situation where I'd be quite happy to turn my back and go la la la while the relatives of the guy getting buried worked the Baptists over on the public street.

Blackbird, while I'll admit I posted my rant while disregarding my usual policy of maintaining polite public discourse, even with ami , I remain at odds with the inability of the US Government to make effective and necessary changes to it's basic foundation for rule of US law.

When the Supreme Court finds it necessary, based on a few words (Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech) submitted to the states for ratification on September 25, 1789, and adopted on December 15, 1791, to rule that the Westboro types' right to spew hate filled anti-gay vomit trumps a man's expectation (obviously not a right) to bury his heterosexual son in peace and with dignity, then the people of the United States have a problem.

They have a problem because a few words written and adopted over two centuries ago, designed to allow basic civil liberties has been twisted beyond any reasonable definition and the Supreme Court is impotent to do anything about it.

Yesterday I watched as several concerned appearing talking heads on US network television explain that the true beauty and brilliance of the First Amendment was precisely that it allowed the vomiting of hatred, the cruel infliction of emotional pain, that it enshrined the rights of bigots and (fucktards by another name) to crap all over anyones right to peace and dignity. After all, if the law is amended to require that people respect the rights of others, then that would trample on the right to crap all over some one else's human dignity and By Thundering Jesus, we can't have that!!

And the hell of it is that they are absolutely right. The Supreme Court has consistently made that clear that as long as a few words written by reasonable men over two hundred years ago, for reasonable purpose, are not amended, the court is obligated to allow cross burnings on private lawns of black Americans.

Full disclosure. The court did not rule that they are obligated to allow cross burnings. In a ruling straight out of Mein Kampf, the court made it clear that it can not prohibit the burning of crosses on the private lawns of black Americans, because such a prohibition violates the First Amendment's rule against abridging the freedom of speech. In a further display of Mein Kampf logic, the court reminded the owners of the lawn that they are free to charge for trespass, claim expenses for damage to their lawn caused by the burning cross burning the lawn and so on and so forth.

As for turning your back and going la la la while the Westboro types got worked over, I have a modest suggestion. Amend the First Amendment and let the law handle the Westboro types.

Don't expect the Supreme Court to reverse it's long tradition of upholding the letter of the law and cheerfully ignoring the spirit of the law, common sense and the wishes of the majority to live free of hate filled vomit. That's not what they are paid to do. Insist, as a nation, that congress once again amend the Constitution and force the Supreme Court to uphold the idea that human dignity trumps spewing hate filled vomit.

 

[sr71plt]

Blackbird, while I'll admit I posted my rant while disregarding my usual policy of maintaining polite public discourse, even with ami , I remain at odds with the inability of the US Government to make effective and necessary changes to it's basic foundation for rule of US law.

Me too. I primarily ascribe that to the Republican Party and to the not-too-bright electorate. But I'm too busy enjoying life to try to take them both on.

On this Westboro bunch, I'd probably tell them to take a hike down the road--that their rights end where someone else's rights start. Which means they can demonstrate, just not at the cemetery in the faces of those trying to bury their boy. But it's really the ultraconservatives around here who are "in your face" over their personal right to do anything they want.

It's really basically the same argument over the "gotta have an Uzi because it's my constitutional right" argument.

 

[estragon]

Be Careful, Steve

What if the Princess Pat (or the Hasty Pees, or the Royal 22nd or the Essex Scottish, or any of your fine regiments, or even the Governor General's Foot Guards), decide they don't like porn sites, like this one? Oh, and by the way, the next time you're in Ottawa, after a few shots of Schenley O.F.C. and a wee Molson Bras d'Or or two at the bar in the Chateau Laurier, check out your own country's Bill of Rights in the Parliament Building. And when you're on your second shot and Bras d'Or, think of me.

 

[estragon]

As the Devil Finds Work for Idle hands

And there are few hands idler than mine just now, I'll provide a footnote to the foregoing. Westboro Bastard Church engages in the old trick of drawing the adversary offside. They shuck and jive with their bullshit, someone jumps on them and they yell "foul!" And the ref blows the whistle and penalizes the wrong side.

The problem with the Supremes is that they disregarded Ollie Holmes' famous remarks in Schenk v. US, 249 US 47 (1919): "when a nation is at war many things that might be said in time of peace are such a hindrance to its effort that their utterance will not be endured so long as men fight, and that no Court could regard them as protected by any constitutional right."

He went on: "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent."

If we are at war (and these men did not die in a traffic accident), then heed the words of Justice Holmes.

 

[steelrfn]

As I posted in the previous thread, both the preacher of the church and his daughter are civil rights lawyers. They conduct these protests in the most inflammatory manner possible and pray that they get sued so they get a chance to go to court over it.


I have no idea how they profit, but I believe to the bottom of my heart that the whole thing is a put on.

 

[sr71plt]

As I posted in the previous thread, both the preacher of the church and his daughter are civil rights lawyers. They conduct these protests in the most inflammatory manner possible and pray that they get sued so they get a chance to go to court over it.


I have no idea how they profit, but I believe to the bottom of my heart that the whole thing is a put on.

Apparently JBJ is sending them support money.

 

[stephen55]

What if the Princess Pat (or the Hasty Pees, or the Royal 22nd or the Essex Scottish, or any of your fine regiments, or even the Governor General's Foot Guards), decide they don't like porn sites, like this one? Oh, and by the way, the next time you're in Ottawa, after a few shots of Schenley O.F.C. and a wee Molson Bras d'Or or two at the bar in the Chateau Laurier, check out your own country's Bill of Rights in the Parliament Building. And when you're on your second shot and Bras d'Or, think of me.

I'm not worried about what the PPCLI or the Van Doos think about porn sites. I'm even less worried about what they think about the Westboro Baptist Church. And I have no concerns at all about what would happen to the Westboros if they picketed a funeral of one of Canada's fallen.

My point is simply that the Westboros, knowing that their right to do what they do, ends at the Canadian border, don't have the balls to export their brand of free speech and in all honesty, I doubt it has anything to do with either the PPCLI or the Van Doos.

What they are truly afraid of is accepting the consequences of their actions, if they were to do their thing in Canada. Up here, they would have no First Amendment to hide behind and instead, would be charged under Canadian Law.

You have to hand it to those Westboros. The last bastion of the coward is to hide behind the law. If they truly had the courage of their convictions, they would have shown up in Canada. So much for their convictions. It was better to run away and vomit again on another day...in the Land of the Free...to vomit.

On a more pleasant note, I fondly remember my first case of Bras d'Or back in the late seventies. However, in my neck of the woods, it's now hard to find. As for Schenley's O.F.C., my taste in whiskey tends to single malt scotch. Blame it on my Scottish grandfather.

I was once in the bar at the Chateau Laurier. I was a little put off at the price they wanted for a pint. I was even further put off when in walked Ed Broadbent, then head of Canada's NDP party. The NDP is Canada's left wing, quasi-socialist party. I figured that if the Chateau Laurier, the epitome of Canadian upper crust, was okay with Ed Broadbent drinking in their bar, it was time for me to go back home.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think they do GLBT people a service by showing the ugliest possible face of bigotry-- they sicken people and make them rethink their own attitudes.

Communities have come together to protect gay students from WBC, and provide screens against their graveyard protests. The Phelpses force parents and administrators to weigh in against the hatred-- simply because it's so overt. Where a more subtle and reasoned group would gain support-- WBC polarizes many people who might have remained on the fence.

 

[sr71plt]

I think they do GLBT people a service by showing the ugliest possible face of bigotry-- they sicken people and make them rethink their own attitudes.

Communities have come together to protect gay students from WBC, and provide screens against their graveyard protests. The Phelpses force parents and administrators to weigh in against the hatred-- simply because it's so overt. Where a more subtle and reasoned group would gain support-- WBC polarizes many people who might have remained on the fence.

I think that's true. You can also bet that the national offices of the various Baptist church sects gnash their teeth each time this group appears.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think that's true. You can also bet that the national offices of the various Baptist church sects gnash their teeth each time this group appears.

Oh, yeah, they must be SOOOOO embarrassed!