Help on a Rimbaud Interpretation?

[Koba]

Hello all!

I have been spending quite a bit of time lately reading the poetry of Rimbaud. He has been on my shelf for years but I have now decided to put in the effort to understand and appreciate him. It is not easy going. I have been focusing on two poems, "The Drunken Boat", and "Sun and Flesh". I think I have read each one over at least 100 times. I have also consulted some interpretations. The poems are now much clearer to me. In fact, I think they are absolutely beautiful! The man had a way of presenting imagery that I have not seen in any other poet. I am becoming intoxicated with his works! It is wonderful to enjoy poetry so!

However!

There is this one poem that I keep seeing as I flip the pages. I keep reading it but I can't make a lick of sense from it. I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Is there some symbols that I am not aware of? So, I am here asking for help from poets more knowledgable than I. Can someone please shed a little light about what is going on here? Since I don't have a clue, any info will be helpful! Here it is!

The Wolf Howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.

I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

 

[vrosej10]

Hello all!

I have been spending quite a bit of time lately reading the poetry of Rimbaud. He has been on my shelf for years but I have now decided to put in the effort to understand and appreciate him. It is not easy going. I have been focusing on two poems, "The Drunken Boat", and "Sun and Flesh". I think I have read each one over at least 100 times. I have also consulted some interpretations. The poems are now much clearer to me. In fact, I think they are absolutely beautiful! The man had a way of presenting imagery that I have not seen in any other poet. I am becoming intoxicated with his works! It is wonderful to enjoy poetry so!

However!

There is this one poem that I keep seeing as I flip the pages. I keep reading it but I can't make a lick of sense from it. I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Is there some symbols that I am not aware of? So, I am here asking for help from poets more knowledgable than I. Can someone please shed a little light about what is going on here? Since I don't have a clue, any info will be helpful! Here it is!

The Wolf Howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.

I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

You picked a shocker to start with. Firstly I might suggest googling rimbaud. Sometime there will be sites talking about his themes and interests which might help you decode this cryptic text. I think the first stanza might be about him killing his own better side or traits. The second seems to be about ambition and having some. Not a clue about the third. I hope that might have helped a bit.

 

[Koba]

You picked a shocker to start with. Firstly I might suggest googling rimbaud. Sometime there will be sites talking about his themes and interests which might help you decode this cryptic text. I think the first stanza might be about him killing his own better side or traits. The second seems to be about ambition and having some. Not a clue about the third. I hope that might have helped a bit.

Well, I guess it helps to know that you find it cryptic too...lol. Now I know it's not just me!

I've tried the google route. Not much help there. Your suggested ideas are good but they don't clear the mystery.

Here's where I am at with it: 1st stanza; kinda like "you are what you eat". The wolf spits out prettiness because he wants to be "wolflike" with no prettiness allowed. But why is he howling under leaves?....and how am I consuming myself? Like the wolf am I just absorbing my own qualities?

2nd stanza: Somehow, someway, I think there is something sexual going on here, but I can't place what.

3rd stanza: I'm lost too! And how 1, 2, and 3 add up to a greater meaning I don't know.

I find it all frustrating because I have a feeling there is something really good there but it is an enigma right now. Perhaps someone will shed some light here.

 

[theognis]

Hello all!

I have been spending quite a bit of time lately reading the poetry of Rimbaud. He has been on my shelf for years but I have now decided to put in the effort to understand and appreciate him. It is not easy going. I have been focusing on two poems, "The Drunken Boat", and "Sun and Flesh". I think I have read each one over at least 100 times. I have also consulted some interpretations. The poems are now much clearer to me. In fact, I think they are absolutely beautiful! The man had a way of presenting imagery that I have not seen in any other poet. I am becoming intoxicated with his works! It is wonderful to enjoy poetry so!

However!

There is this one poem that I keep seeing as I flip the pages. I keep reading it but I can't make a lick of sense from it. I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Is there some symbols that I am not aware of? So, I am here asking for help from poets more knowledgable than I. Can someone please shed a little light about what is going on here? Since I don't have a clue, any info will be helpful! Here it is!

The Wolf Howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.

I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

This is how I interpret this poem. It's about hunger. Being perpetually unsatisfied. Especially with oneself.

 

[theognis]

Well, I guess it helps to know that you find it cryptic too...lol. Now I know it's not just me!

I've tried the google route. Not much help there. Your suggested ideas are good but they don't clear the mystery.

Here's where I am at with it: 1st stanza; kinda like "you are what you eat". The wolf spits out prettiness because he wants to be "wolflike" with no prettiness allowed. But why is he howling under leaves?....and how am I consuming myself? Like the wolf am I just absorbing my own qualities?

2nd stanza: Somehow, someway, I think there is something sexual going on here, but I can't place what.

3rd stanza: I'm lost too! And how 1, 2, and 3 add up to a greater meaning I don't know.

I find it all frustrating because I have a feeling there is something really good there but it is an enigma right now. Perhaps someone will shed some light here.

First stanza seems clear to me. Howling in frustration that nothing satisfies.

Second stanza also clear. The spider catches only flowers.

Third stanza again clear. Wishes for relief.

It's just my untutored interpretation.

 

[vrosej10]

Well, I guess it helps to know that you find it cryptic too...lol. Now I know it's not just me!

I've tried the google route. Not much help there. Your suggested ideas are good but they don't clear the mystery.

Here's where I am at with it: 1st stanza; kinda like "you are what you eat". The wolf spits out prettiness because he wants to be "wolflike" with no prettiness allowed. But why is he howling under leaves?....and how am I consuming myself? Like the wolf am I just absorbing my own qualities?

2nd stanza: Somehow, someway, I think there is something sexual going on here, but I can't place what.

3rd stanza: I'm lost too! And how 1, 2, and 3 add up to a greater meaning I don't know.

I find it all frustrating because I have a feeling there is something really good there but it is an enigma right now. Perhaps someone will shed some light here.

if it helps, modern academic theory hold that there is no one set meaning to a text. You interpretation is as good as another as long as you can make a good case for it and authorial intent is a myth. I say if you got something out of it, then that's what it means.

 

[Koba]

First stanza seems clear to me. Howling in frustration that nothing satisfies.

Second stanza also clear. The spider catches only flowers.

Third stanza again clear. Wishes for relief.

It's just my untutored interpretation.

I can see partly what you are saying but I am still unclear on meaning. Perhaps it is because it is late and I am fading.

I have found in some research that Rimbaud thought of himself as a wolf. Also, the French word for "leaves" can also mean "sheets". Also, from my study of "Sun and Flesh" I have seen that Rimbaud is very fond of double entendres. I cannot help but think that there is some sexual connotations here. But, even if there are, that may not be the real meaning but just another "level". "Sun and Flesh" opens with some magnificent imagery expounding the beauty of Nature, God, and love. Only after many readings did I begin to see the innuendos. The first two lines can easily be read that the Sun is ejaculating on the Earth which the earth finds most pleasureable. It becomes almost humorous to find hidden meanings like that throughout the poem.

 

[theognis]

I can see partly what you are saying but I am still unclear on meaning. Perhaps it is because it is late and I am fading.

I have found in some research that Rimbaud thought of himself as a wolf. Also, the French word for "leaves" can also mean "sheets". Also, from my study of "Sun and Flesh" I have seen that Rimbaud is very fond of double entendres. I cannot help but think that there is some sexual connotations here. But, even if there are, that may not be the real meaning but just another "level". "Sun and Flesh" opens with some magnificent imagery expounding the beauty of Nature, God, and love. Only after many readings did I begin to see the innuendos. The first two lines can easily be read that the Sun is ejaculating on the Earth which the earth finds most pleasureable. It becomes almost humorous to find hidden meanings like that throughout the poem.

As I'm sure you realize, part of the beauty of poetry lies in the fact it's possible for each reader to find his or her own meaning in the words.

I think Rimbaud is the wolf in the first stanza, and the spider in the second. Pretty feathers can be caught but are of no value to the wolf. Lettuce, fruit and flowers are easily caught but are of no value to the spider.

I think perhaps death is the relief sought in the final stanza, thus the Biblical allusions.

Probably only Rimbaud could say what he was thinking when he wrote the poem.

 

[Koba]

As I'm sure you realize, part of the beauty of poetry lies in the fact it's possible for each reader to find his or her own meaning in the words.

I think Rimbaud is the wolf in the first stanza, and the spider in the second. Pretty feathers can be caught but are of no value to the wolf. Lettuce, fruit and flowers are easily caught but are of no value to the spider.

I think perhaps death is the relief sought in the final stanza, thus the Biblical allusions.

Probably only Rimbaud could say what he was thinking when he wrote the poem.

Well, very good! You have definitely seen some angles that escaped me. I'm not 100% sold but you have given me something to think on and sleep on. Thank you for your help! And yes, we all interpret differently and like Whitman said "Have you felt so proud to get at the meaning of poems?" Yes!

 

[theognis]

Well, very good! You have definitely seen some angles that escaped me. I'm not 100% sold but you have given me something to think on and sleep on. Thank you for your help! And yes, we all interpret differently and like Whitman said "Have you felt so proud to get at the meaning of poems?" Yes!

You're welcome. And, by the way, pretty feathers can be caught between the sheets sometimes.

 

[twelveoone]

I can see partly what you are saying but I am still unclear on meaning. Perhaps it is because it is late and I am fading.

I have found in some research that Rimbaud thought of himself as a wolf. Also, the French word for "leaves" can also mean "sheets". Also, from my study of "Sun and Flesh" I have seen that Rimbaud is very fond of double entendres. I cannot help but think that there is some sexual connotations here. But, even if there are, that may not be the real meaning but just another "level". "Sun and Flesh" opens with some magnificent imagery expounding the beauty of Nature, God, and love. Only after many readings did I begin to see the innuendos. The first two lines can easily be read that the Sun is ejaculating on the Earth which the earth finds most pleasureable. It becomes almost humorous to find hidden meanings like that throughout the poem.

Do you read French, speak French? If not one way of approach is three or four translations, side by side so to speak.

 

[butters]

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.



i like to imagine this is Rimbaud 'the writer', the 'leaves' being sheets of paper, the 'prettiest feathers' unsatisfactory poetry, his source of inspiration/sustenance being pale flesh, carrion. fowl being less ... less ... satisfying to the wolf/poet than bloody, raw red meat ... less the stuff of great nourishment to be converted into creativity and more pale and insipid, tasty at a shallow level but not sustaining...


because the pale flesh doesn't sustain, the wolf is driven to consuming/converting his own flesh ... a form of self-cannibalism poets/writers(?) might be familiar with.


i have no idea what Rimbaud's true intent was - all i am voicing are my own thought-tangents

 

[bflagsst]

Hello all!

I have been spending quite a bit of time lately reading the poetry of Rimbaud. He has been on my shelf for years but I have now decided to put in the effort to understand and appreciate him. It is not easy going. I have been focusing on two poems, "The Drunken Boat", and "Sun and Flesh". I think I have read each one over at least 100 times. I have also consulted some interpretations. The poems are now much clearer to me. In fact, I think they are absolutely beautiful! The man had a way of presenting imagery that I have not seen in any other poet. I am becoming intoxicated with his works! It is wonderful to enjoy poetry so!

However!

There is this one poem that I keep seeing as I flip the pages. I keep reading it but I can't make a lick of sense from it. I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Is there some symbols that I am not aware of? So, I am here asking for help from poets more knowledgable than I. Can someone please shed a little light about what is going on here? Since I don't have a clue, any info will be helpful! Here it is!

The Wolf Howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.

I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

Kidron is the Valley of Judgment. Rimbaud makes no secret that he wished to be a recognized poetic genius, as someone who spits only the sweetest verses. But he won't be happy even when he's recognized and consumed by the masses...

 

[Black13]

Oooh! Oooh! My turn!

Aristotle said, to paraphrase, that the virtuous deem necessary that which is right and good, and delight in the actions necessary to achieve them. A vicious man, on the other hand, takes pleasure in that which is harmful or useless, and does not with that which is good, even when he knows it's the right thing to do.
I think Rimbau wants to be satisfied with lettuce and fruit, because it is vital and filling... but flowers are so pretty to a spider. The wolf, on the other hand, is mundane and not satisfied with pretty feathers because they do not digest and do not fill; that which is supposedly beautiful means nothing to them. Rimboy wants to be able to satisfy that other appetite, that other mentality that poets so often alienate in pursuit of higher truth and sovereign beauty, and that is to take delight in that which is necessary. He sees himself vicious and perhaps petty, and deserving of that judgement because, even though he knows what is good for him, he simply doesn't take any pleasure in it.

 

[butters]

Oooh! Oooh! My turn!

Aristotle said, to paraphrase, that the virtuous deem necessary that which is right and good, and delight in the actions necessary to achieve them. A vicious man, on the other hand, takes pleasure in that which is harmful or useless, and does not with that which is good, even when he knows it's the right thing to do.
I think Rimbau wants to be satisfied with lettuce and fruit, because it is vital and filling... but flowers are so pretty to a spider. The wolf, on the other hand, is mundane and not satisfied with pretty feathers because they do not digest and do not fill; that which is supposedly beautiful means nothing to them. Rimboy wants to be able to satisfy that other appetite, that other mentality that poets so often alienate in pursuit of higher truth and sovereign beauty, and that is to take delight in that which is necessary. He sees himself vicious and perhaps petty, and deserving of that judgement because, even though he knows what is good for him, he simply doesn't take any pleasure in it.

ok - you sold me on this version!

 

[Black13]

Woo! O'Doyle rules!

 

[greenmountaineer]

I'll take a stab at it. Although I'm no expert when it comes to Rimbaud, he, Mallarme, and Verlaine were French Symbolists. I copied the following from an article about the literary movement:

For a long time, scholars saw the symbolist refusal to depict the empirical world as a reaction against naturalistic artistic and literary movements such as realism and Impressionism. Later scholarship suggested that, rather than seeing symbolism mainly as a rejection of naturalist aesthetics, it should be acknowledged that symbolism was embedded in wider cultural and political anxieties of the late nineteenth century. The dominant philosophies of positivism and Darwinism threatened to substitute empirical facts for the traditional religious explanations of the great mysteries of the world. Human activity was increasingly explained in mechanistic psychophysiological terms and human beings appeared to be less and less in control of their thoughts and behaviors. The development of capitalist economies led to an increasing commodification of daily life and an increasingly materialistic culture. Rather than situating symbolism in the rarified world of the aesthetic, scholars came to see the symbolist alternative to materialism—evocative abstraction, suggestion, mysticism, and dreamlike imagery—as an attempt to oppose the effects of materialism and capitalism.

The bold italics are mine. I think of survival of the fittest in the first stanza as well as the need to be satisfied as others have noted, both of which are deeply ingrained in the animal kingdom, which includes humans, that Rimbaud begrudgingly accepts. The 3rd stanza is mystical, suggesting some greater reality after what remains of us seeps into the ground. Perhaps Solomon is a symbol of that greater wisdom in as much as he is often compared with wisdom.

I think Rimbaud was suggesting that the new paradigms (inclusive of Freud's notions that were starting to gain some currency at the end of the nineteenth century) did not, nor could not explain everything that was as much part of us as the wolf, a predator, or the spider, an opportunist, was.

 

[theognis]

The Wolf howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.


I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

Koba, I did a little research and found the referenced ravine is dry much of the time, but in rainy weather a small stream forms in it and the stream flows into a valley through which it continues directly to its final destination, The Dead Sea.

Also looked up the original version of the poem:

Le loup criait sous les feuilles
En crachant les belles plumes
De son repas de volailles:
Comme lui je me consume.

Les salades, les fruits
N'attendent que la cueillette;
Mais l'araignée de la haie
Ne mange que des violettes.

Que je dorme! Que je bouille
Aux autels de Salomon.
Le bouillon court sur la rouille
Et se mêle au Cédron.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I think there are several interesting points throughout this thread, and, as some have noted, the 'answer' is not unique.
I find it interesting that both 1 and 2 make reference to eating, one carnivorous, other vegetarian. Each also have puzzling aspects - why is eating chicken akin to eating oneself (Ouroboros); and spiders are also carnivorous, which I'm sure has been known for millennia.

I did find the reference to Kidron interesting - likely bflagsst point is useful here.

Also reminded me of Gehenna, which I was told was also a garbage dump outside Jerusalem in Roman times. I think a priest or brother may have said this.

 

[Koba]

Thank you all for your input to my query. It definitely helped! I can see many possibilities now whereas at the start I was in the dark. I shall continue my readings of Rimbaud. I find him to be fascinating!

On a side note, I went to Borders Books today. Here in Anchorge they are closing their store so everything is on sale. I went to the poetry section. Wow! Poetry sure is popular. There were very slim pickings left. I managed to pick up a paperback of Verlaine's poetry for a very good price. I wonder if he wrote a poem about shooting Rimbaud? I guess I'll find out!

 

[bronzeage]

Hello all!

I have been spending quite a bit of time lately reading the poetry of Rimbaud. He has been on my shelf for years but I have now decided to put in the effort to understand and appreciate him. It is not easy going. I have been focusing on two poems, "The Drunken Boat", and "Sun and Flesh". I think I have read each one over at least 100 times. I have also consulted some interpretations. The poems are now much clearer to me. In fact, I think they are absolutely beautiful! The man had a way of presenting imagery that I have not seen in any other poet. I am becoming intoxicated with his works! It is wonderful to enjoy poetry so!

However!

There is this one poem that I keep seeing as I flip the pages. I keep reading it but I can't make a lick of sense from it. I don't know what it is I am missing out on. Is there some symbols that I am not aware of? So, I am here asking for help from poets more knowledgable than I. Can someone please shed a little light about what is going on here? Since I don't have a clue, any info will be helpful! Here it is!

The Wolf Howled

The wolf howled under the leaves
And spit out the prettiest feathers
Of his meal of fowl;
Like him I consume myself.

Lettuce and fruit
Wait only to be picked;
But the spider in the hedge
Eats only violets.

Let me sleep! Let me boil
On the altars of Solomon.
The froth runs down over the rust,
And mingles with the Kedron.

I appreciate any help as I'm sure it will help me to understand poetry better. If it helps: Kedron is a ravine in Jordan, east of Jerusalem. Perhaps there is some Biblical allusion there?

There is no law which states it has to make sense, but it's a human trait to desire order in chaos. This makes all interpretations suspect and the most suspicious of all is the idea there is a hidden message, and the poet's intention is to show the poem to all, but the meaning to only a few.

So, here we have a strange collection of metaphors.

The wolf eats a bird, but not the prettiest feathers. The feathers may be attractive, but are inedible and the wolf is wise not to eat them. Their beauty does not benefit him and apparently not the bird either.

The wolf howls. It is a wolf's nature to howl. He is under the leaves, where he belongs. To be above the leaves, he would be a bird. Howling under the leaves is a perfect expression of wolf nature. Now he and the bird are below the leaves.

The writer contradicts nature by claiming he and the wolf eat themselves. We have seen the wolf in his non-bird state, so the wolf who eats a bird, cannot at the same time be a bird. However, the bird is now the wolf, (except for the feathers) used to build muscle, bone and fat, and will be consumed when there is no food of any kind.

The lesson taught is plain, eat now and live from what is consumed when it is needed.

I hope this helps.