Categories within categories?

[lovecraft68]

When I first started writing here I posted a question on categories. I was up to Chapter 8 in my incest series and it was going to include a lesbian scene between the sister and her former lover. I asked if by any chance I should post in Lesbian because the incest between her and the brother was a very minimal encounter and glossed over rather than put in great detail.

One of the first replies I received and the one I have stuck with to this day was from "Ogg" where he said "Incest trumps all". As time went on I saw what he meant as I didn't realize how reviled the category is outside of it's fans. It's not lesbian where even if people aren't into it they don't necessarily care. no incest along with maybe non consent or gay male is something you don't want to accidentally read into. Keeping that in mind however I started to read something today and like a stooge didn't really look at the tag line and found myself in the middle of a "brother brother" incest story. I'm not homophobic but will honestly say that there is nothing for me there and find it kind of gross. My first reaction was why the hell isn't this in gay male?
Then I thought well if it were there then I am sure the average gay man has no desire to have sex with his brother and would think why the hell isn't this in incest?
Now I have had a lot of negative e-mails because in my incest series the characters are into hardcore S&M sex. I had no idea incest had to be vanilla and still continue to get remarks that the violence ruins it and that shit belongs in BDSM non consent (1st off non consent is wrong the sister is very willing) I especially took heat from ch 26 in which the sister is tied to a bed post and I describe the brother kicking her feet out from under her causing her arms to slide backwards on the bed and almost dislocate. Now I do put BDSM or rough sex in the tags but aside from that there isn't much i can think of. And I just proved myself today that they don't always get read. So is there any other solution? Personally if I read something I don't want to I simply move on but there are others who not only leave the nasty remarks but drop the one bombs as well.

 

[Darkniciad]

The solution presented and currently in development according to Manu is bringing tags to the forefront. The database is simply too huge to do massive restructuring, and the tags feature is already present.

Tags would become more visible and integral to the story presentation, allowing authors to designate sub-genre within the story for readers. Many websites only use tags, and it works pretty well ( so long as the author tags the story correctly ). Lit's version would simply add another layer with the existing categories narrowing down things for readers initially. The tags would then provide the final narrowing.

 

[lovecraft68]

The solution presented and currently in development according to Manu is bringing tags to the forefront. The database is simply too huge to do massive restructuring, and the tags feature is already present.

Tags would become more visible and integral to the story presentation, allowing authors to designate sub-genre within the story for readers. Many websites only use tags, and it works pretty well ( so long as the author tags the story correctly ). Lit's version would simply add another layer with the existing categories narrowing down things for readers initially. The tags would then provide the final narrowing.

Hey do you mind a quick question? where do you get the cover art for your stories? I am getting close to e-publishing a version of my incest series and if the artist that is helping me falls through(They may have to travel for work very shortly) I may need an alternative

 

[Darkniciad]

They're combinations of a lot of things -- virtually none of which would be useful for commercial publishing *laugh*

I take advantage of a couple of art sites that allow use/modification for non-commercial purposes, drawings made from photos ( often impossible to track down the original photographer to give proper credit since I find it on a site that's taken it from a site that took it from a site... ) Some images are ( cheap ) licensed artwork -- again only allowed for non-commercial purposes.

From all of that, I lay them out and smoosh together what I want for the final cover. Often, the background comes from a completely different place than the central image.

 

[lovecraft68]

They're combinations of a lot of things -- virtually none of which would be useful for commercial publishing *laugh*

I take advantage of a couple of art sites that allow use/modification for non-commercial purposes, drawings made from photos ( often impossible to track down the original photographer to give proper credit since I find it on a site that's taken it from a site that took it from a site... ) Some images are ( cheap ) licensed artwork -- again only allowed for non-commercial purposes.

From all of that, I lay them out and smoosh together what I want for the final cover. Often, the background comes from a completely different place than the central image.

Okay I see. if you click on my stories link and go to my bio you'll see a pic of two split faces. That is the basis for my cover. The guy is parts of three pictures including the weird colored eye all came from Flickr but are so mixed now it shouldn't matter the girl on the other hand is Amy Lee so needs to be modified. It's just she was such a dead ringer for my character I had to use it for now the first thing the artist is doing is "un Amy Leeing" her.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Now I have had a lot of negative e-mails because in my incest series the characters are into hardcore S&M sex. I had no idea incest had to be vanilla and still continue to get remarks that the violence ruins it and that shit belongs in BDSM non consent (1st off non consent is wrong the sister is very willing) I especially took heat from ch 26 in which the sister is tied to a bed post and I describe the brother kicking her feet out from under her causing her arms to slide backwards on the bed and almost dislocate. Now I do put BDSM or rough sex in the tags but aside from that there isn't much i can think of. And I just proved myself today that they don't always get read. So is there any other solution? Personally if I read something I don't want to I simply move on but there are others who not only leave the nasty remarks but drop the one bombs as well.

Are you saying that you added in some rougher stuff in chapter 26, after 25 chapters of vanilla sex? Or have all 26 chapters been the same, with chapter 26 just being more extreme?

If you wrote 25 chapters with characters behaving one way, and then they tried something completely different in chapter 26 (and that something happens to be behavior that not everyone on the site if a-ok with), I'm not surprised your readers got a bit of mental whiplash (heh) and complained. And after reading 25 chapters, they aren't going to check the tags for chapter 26 before proceeding.

Either way, you could always put a simple disclaimer at the top of the relevant chapter(s), warning your readers of what lies ahead if they choose to read. I don't know how common this is in incest, but I've seen BDSM and anal disclaimers in both the romance and EC categories. It's a nice way of giving people the option to click out, and it might help you avoid complaints.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Then I thought well if it were there then I am sure the average gay man has no desire to have sex with his brother and would think why the hell isn't this in incest?

Duh yeah.

I write lesbian BDSM. Real lesbians, who are really queer, not porn actress f/f, and that's why I took my writing off of lit-- because there is no category here for what I write.

 

[lovecraft68]

Duh yeah.

I write lesbian BDSM. Real lesbians, who are really queer, not porn actress f/f, and that's why I took my writing off of lit-- because there is no category here for what I write.

Yes I would think that LIt would be strictly Lipstick lesbian sex. I am guilty of that myself in the couple of Lesbian scenes I have written the sister who is hot has an equally if not hotter girlfriend. By the same token however everything in porn is exaggerated and meant to appeal to the masses. My male character Mark is up for sexiest male in the LIt awards. He wouldn't be if he looked like me or another average Joe.

 

[lovecraft68]

Are you saying that you added in some rougher stuff in chapter 26, after 25 chapters of vanilla sex? Or have all 26 chapters been the same, with chapter 26 just being more extreme?

If you wrote 25 chapters with characters behaving one way, and then they tried something completely different in chapter 26 (and that something happens to be behavior that not everyone on the site if a-ok with), I'm not surprised your readers got a bit of mental whiplash (heh) and complained. And after reading 25 chapters, they aren't going to check the tags for chapter 26 before proceeding.

Either way, you could always put a simple disclaimer at the top of the relevant chapter(s), warning your readers of what lies ahead if they choose to read. I don't know how common this is in incest, but I've seen BDSM and anal disclaimers in both the romance and EC categories. It's a nice way of giving people the option to click out, and it might help you avoid complaints.

In the 26 (well now 27) chapters not everyone has BDSM type rough sex, but chapter one which I would think would be a tone setter does. And off the top of my head I would say maybe eight or nine others have it as well. It is not a constant but if you are following the series it is there more than enough for you to be expecting it. The disclaimer is a good idea however. Honestly I am three chapters away from one where the brother finally loses it and rapes the sister (really as in non consent style not BDSM rough stuff) I will have a warning at the top of that one because it will be anal and not for the squeamish so I will see if that helps any. Thank you for weighing in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes I would think that LIt would be strictly Lipstick lesbian sex. I am guilty of that myself in the couple of Lesbian scenes I have written the sister who is hot has an equally if not hotter girlfriend. By the same token however everything in porn is exaggerated and meant to appeal to the masses. My male character Mark is up for sexiest male in the LIt awards. He wouldn't be if he looked like me or another average Joe.

MY dykes and lipstick lesbians are totally hot. But they keep their fingernails cut short.

 

[lovecraft68]

MY dykes and lipstick lesbians are totally hot. But they keep their fingernails cut short.

So what you're saying Stella, is that they are modeled after you then!

 

[jomar]

Until the tags feature rolls out LFTs comment about an author's note at the beginning of the story is about as good as can be done for now if you don't want to surprise people.

Sometimes hard to choose a category and some readers are weird fussy. I got nasty comments when I put a story into the Fetish cat...probably could have gone in Transsexuals & Crossdressers pretty easily, but it had lots of other stuff too... though one reader even said it should be Gay Male. Go figure.

 

[Paasha]

Literoticans are a bit spoiled. I don't ever recall a book that I've paid for that had story tags and disclaimers detailing the sex acts or themes that they contain.