Q. Quantitative verse

[twelveoone]

In English
How is it scanned?
furthest I got is Long and Short vowels, there are other factors involved, does anybody know?

 

[Epmd607]

EroticO wrote a program that either generated or scanned verse for proper metrical feet set to his guidelines. He's the guy to talk to.

 

[twelveoone]

EroticO wrote a program that either generated or scanned verse for proper metrical feet set to his guidelines. He's the guy to talk to.

I doubt it was Quantitative
but thanks for your help

 

[Epmd607]

I doubt it was Quantitative
but thanks for your help

You mean tribrach? A quantitative meter is likely more realistic to his program. Recognizing proper stresses is difficult for a machine, measuring syllable length is a different story. We'll see, he'll come by eventually, I'm sure.

 

[twelveoone]

You mean tribrach? A quantitative meter is likely more realistic to his program. Recognizing proper stresses is difficult for a machine, measuring syllable length is a different story. We'll see, he'll come by eventually, I'm sure.

I'm more concerned with the other factors, whatever they are.

 

[Angeline]

I'd love a program that could scan words for me but I doubt there's any that can do it successfully because of context and it's better for me to just know what I'm writing.

 

[twelveoone]

I'd love a program that could scan words for me but I doubt there's any that can do it successfully because of context and it's better for me to just know what I'm writing.

Seriously, what you said something to effect of if it sounds right it probably is, was one of the truer things, I've heard here. Well sometimes Senna says something, jtserra, a few others.
As far as qualitative, you do see a bit of an argument over what John Crow Ransom was doing, but the neo-forms all hate him anyway.

 

[twelveoone]

From Wikipedia:
The basic unit in Greek and Latin prosody is a mora, which is defined as a single short syllable. A long syllable is equivalent to two moras. A long syllable contains either a long vowel, a diphthong, or a short vowel followed by two or more consonants. Various rules of elision sometimes prevent a grammatical syllable from making a full syllable, and certain other lengthening and shortening rules (such as correption) can create long or short syllables in contexts where one would expect the opposite.
this what I am looking for

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I wrote a program to scan lines of text from text file, word file or interactively typed in.
It has a dictionary which has been processed and condensed so that it just shows the syllable breakdown, part of speech, and which syllables are accented. If you use a word it doesn't have it'll ask and you can add to the dictionary.
Accenting of syllables works file for words with more than one syllable.
The logic for deciding which syllables to accent and so forth gets quite complicated. It uses parts of speech to define a hierarchy of usage. It will accent a verb over a noun and so forth. You can specify a target meter which will have an effect if all other things are equal. It can also summarize feet it finds on a line.
All feet are assumed to be the same length (2 or 3 syllables).

Another case where where what is relatively simple and intuitive for humans is difficult to do as a computer program. I have used it in the past, for example in the 2009 survivor challenge, but take the output as a starting point, rather than the answer, especially when single syllable words are common. Its better for showing me where I may have a problem than for declaring a poem is all iambic pentameter.

 

[Angeline]

I wrote a program to scan lines of text from text file, word file or interactively typed in.
It has a dictionary which has been processed and condensed so that it just shows the syllable breakdown, part of speech, and which syllables are accented. If you use a word it doesn't have it'll ask and you can add to the dictionary.
Accenting of syllables works file for words with more than one syllable.
The logic for deciding which syllables to accent and so forth gets quite complicated. It uses parts of speech to define a hierarchy of usage. It will accent a verb over a noun and so forth. You can specify a target meter which will have an effect if all other things are equal. It can also summarize feet it finds on a line.
All feet are assumed to be the same length (2 or 3 syllables).

Another case where where what is relatively simple and intuitive for humans is difficult to do as a computer program. I have used it in the past, for example in the 2009 survivor challenge, but take the output as a starting point, rather than the answer, especially when single syllable words are common. Its better for showing me where I may have a problem than for declaring a poem is all iambic pentameter.

I wonder what the justification is that allows for determining emphasis by part of speech? I guess, as a rule, content words are stressed and function words are not. But not always: "under" is a function word but it can act as a content word so the stress is the same but the meaning becomes shaded. When a function word like "under" takes the place of a noun (of a verb sounds a little silly--undering?), you get an interesting ambiguity in a line, an unexpected tension.

Just thinking aloud.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I wonder what the justification is that allows for determining emphasis by part of speech? I guess, as a rule, content words are stressed and function words are not. But not always: "under" is a function word but it can act as a content word so the stress is the same but the meaning becomes shaded. When a function word like "under" takes the place of a noun (of a verb sounds a little silly--undering?), you get an interesting ambiguity in a line, an unexpected tension.

Just thinking aloud.

It's my ad hoc classification, arising from the need to automatically pick one word over adjacent words. My overall enumeration is:
UNKNOWN,
ARTICLE,
PREPOSITION,
CONJUGATION,
ADVERB,
ADJECTIVE,
PRONOUN,
NOUN,
VERB,
INTERJECTION
where UNKNOWN shouldn't occur.
It gets more involved if a particular work can correspond to different parts of speech. In general the highest ranking is used. It can distinguish adverb from adjective by considering whether the next word is a verb or a noun. I didn't go any further towards automatic sentence diagramming.
A lot more could be done, but probably better off working on poems directly and just use what I have for hints.

 

[twelveoone]

thank you
but
I wassking
about
Quantitative verse,
some details about the rules of scansion

 

[Tzara]

thank you
but
I wassking
about
Quantitative verse,
some details about the rules of scansion

Maaark it how eeeeever you wiiiiish, kind siiiiir.

Like, fer 'zample, scan this:

Wheer ’asta beän saw long and meä liggin’ ’ere aloän?
Noorse? thourt nowt o’ a noorse: whoy, Doctor’s abeän an’ agoän:
Says that I moänt ’a naw moor aäle: but I beänt a fool:
Git ma my aäle, fur I beänt a-gawin’ to breäk my rule.

Doctors, they knaws nowt, fur a says what’s nawways true:
Naw soort o’ koind o’ use to saäy the things that a do.
I ’ve ’ed my point o’ aäle ivry noight sin’ I beän ’ere.
An’ I ’ve ’ed my quart ivry market-noight for foorty year.​

Is the poet maybe crammin' a Greek or Roman convention onta simple English verse? Dunno. Is this Martian? Dunno.

Does quantitative verse ever apply to English?

I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree​

Not there, anyway.

This topic is all Greek to me, anyway.

 

[twelveoone]

From Wikipedia:
The basic unit in Greek and Latin prosody is a mora, which is defined as a single short syllable. A long syllable is equivalent to two moras. A long syllable contains either a long vowel, a diphthong, or a short vowel followed by two or more consonants. Various rules of elision sometimes prevent a grammatical syllable from making a full syllable, and certain other lengthening and shortening rules (such as correption) can create long or short syllables in contexts where one would expect the opposite.
this what I am looking for

No, my dear, dear friend Tzara, the post you responded to, was just a little exasperation on my part, I guess I'll just try to find a book on my own.
As we both know, we both do like to play in off the path tracks.

Say hello....