Waste of time?

[RoyceConnors]

Since I started writing this novel, Blood of the Clans, I've wondered if I am writing more for myself, or the readers. I have received very little in the way of feedback and wonder if I can improve on the story or just scrap it altogether.

I know this is an erotic story website, but I hope I can compete in this arena.

 

[sr71plt]

What novel? You really need to provide links to entice folks to go look at it.

As long as you keep that avatar, I think you should certainly keep posting to the forum at least.

 

[RoyceConnors]

http://www.literotica.com/s/blood-of-the-clans-ch-01

Per Sr71's request, here's the link to my opening chapter.

 

[PennLady]

Since I started writing this novel, Blood of the Clans, I've wondered if I am writing more for myself, or the readers. I have received very little in the way of feedback and wonder if I can improve on the story or just scrap it altogether.

I know this is an erotic story website, but I hope I can compete in this arena.

Feedback is an odd and addictive thing. I think nearly all of us post in large part to get some kind of response, or affirmation, some kind of encouragement. With that said, I have to go the however. Which I'm sure you knew was coming.

However -- you can't let it be the deciding factor. If you enjoy writing, then keep going. That's not a waste of time. There are lots of theories as to why feedback falls off; I believe someone (sr71plt?) speculated that long stories just lose readers over time. I noticed that even with my 3-part stories. And only a small percentage of people vote, let alone leave comments.

I'm sorry to say I haven't read your story. It looks like the kind of genre I'd enjoy, but unfortunately my time is limited; I read far less than I used to.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure what you are expecting, Royce. All of the parts to this rate above 4.5 and all have at least two comments. So, I don't think you've received "very little" in response thus far.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I'm not sure what you are expecting Royce. All of the parts to this rate above 4.5 and all have at least two comments. So, I don't think you've received very little in response thus far.

I guess what I was expecting was some reader feedback, as to whether I was on the right track, or falling off the rail in areas. As this is my first attempt at more than a one page story, I was hoping to know if I was creating a readable story, or wasting my time.

I've tried hard to put all the elements of a good story in it and wonder if I have made a good job of it or not.

 

[PennLady]

I guess what I was expecting was some reader feedback, as to whether I was on the right track, or falling off the rail in areas. As this is my first attempt at more than a one page story, I was hoping to know if I was creating a readable story, or wasting my time.

I've tried hard to put all the elements of a good story in it and wonder if I have made a good job of it or not.

I think people are often leery of guessing whether an author is "on the right track." After all, it's your story, you can do whatever track you want. Remember, too, that any feedback must be taken with a grain of salt. This isn't exactly peer review here. If you still have readers, then it's likely readable. If you want more serious feedback, you may want to contact someone about editing or beta reading.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I think people are often leery of guessing whether an author is "on the right track." After all, it's your story, you can do whatever track you want. Remember, too, that any feedback must be taken with a grain of salt. This isn't exactly peer review here. If you still have readers, then it's likely readable. If you want more serious feedback, you may want to contact someone about editing or beta reading.

That's true PL, but to a point. If a writer gets more feedback from readers, they'll know if they are keeping within a set of parameters where the story should and shouldn't go. How much is too much? Too little? Plot weakening? Not enough drama?
Readers can help shape future chapters by mentioning weak points and strong points of the story, thereby giving the writer what they need to improve and bring the story into focus more.
I am in the market for an editor to help me bring all the elements together cohesively. My main concern is how I structure my sentences. I know I have the right information, but I'm unsure if it comes across clear enough and reads the way that it should. What I think is right, isn't necessarily what readers might think.
In as much as I'm enjoying writing the story, I am writing it for an audience and not my own pleasure. Hence the need for more feedback from readers and other writers. Like other writers, I want to be recognized for my efforts and have my story become one of note and merit.

 

[talismania]

Feedback is a peculiar beast. When I comment, it's because I like the story and wish to let the writer know that. I'm not likely to offer in-depth constructive criticism for a few reasons: I like to do so in private, I'm not sure the writer is looking for that, sometimes constructive criticism even if kindly worded can crush a new writer, and I don't wish to come off as officious because, well, I'm really not!

What I'm getting at is readers have more reasons not to critique a work than to do so, so it's not surprising so few offer advice of any kind. Many also don't feel qualified. While they qualify as readers (and I LOVE reader opinions, too, as you do), they may not want to advise, or alter, the future of the writer's vision. They're waiting for you to deliver your vision rather than theirs. They like or don't like the result, but they're not looking to create it.

I know I'm kind of rambling here, but you really are doing very well! Your chapters are getting high marks! For what it's worth, I've been reading Blood of the Clans, though not commenting. I usually don't comment when all I have to say is "I like this." I also am out of my element with the historical background involved, so can't be of much use. Should you want to pick my brain, though, drop me a line... er, PM.

 

[sr71plt]

There's no requirement for readers here to either comment or vote. They have no "duties" or "responsibilities." If authors gear themselves to be a little less needy, they'll save themselves some grief.

As I noted earlier, this series already has ratings and comments that most authors here would kill to get.

 

[PennLady]

That's true PL, but to a point. If a writer gets more feedback from readers, they'll know if they are keeping within a set of parameters where the story should and shouldn't go. How much is too much? Too little? Plot weakening? Not enough drama?

This is not necessarily true. Like I said, this isn't peer review. Any feedback you get is just feedback from a random person who expressed an opinion. Nothing gives that opinion any more weight, or validity, than any other. Just because some "smith42" says your plot is flailing is no proof that it is; what if "jones24" says it's great?

Readers can help shape future chapters by mentioning weak points and strong points of the story, thereby giving the writer what they need to improve and bring the story into focus more.

Again, not necessarily. Now, I'm not saying you need to have the entire story thought out in your head before starting; lord knows I rarely do. But again, just because one person says X is a weak point, doesn't mean it is. I think the best you can do is that if multiple people agree on a point, check out that point in the sense of "where there's smoke there's fire." I've had this on my most recent story, and so I'll keep it in mind, but it doesn't mean they're rright.

I am in the market for an editor to help me bring all the elements together cohesively. My main concern is how I structure my sentences. I know I have the right information, but I'm unsure if it comes across clear enough and reads the way that it should. What I think is right, isn't necessarily what readers might think.

If you'd like, I'll try to read a bit and get an idea of your sentence structure and see if I can offer any advice.

In as much as I'm enjoying writing the story, I am writing it for an audience and not my own pleasure. Hence the need for more feedback from readers and other writers. Like other writers, I want to be recognized for my efforts and have my story become one of note and merit.

But see, as sr71 says, the readers don't owe the writers anything. Nor, really, do you owe the readers. I hope you're getting some pleasure out if it, otherwise that seems to me it'd be a bit of a slog to write.

We all want to be recognized, of course. I get a little bummed with negative feedback, and buoyed with positive; had I not gotten such positive feedback on my first story, I'm not sure if I would have continued. On the other hand, I wrote that story because *I* had an idea that *I* wanted to explore. The positive feedback was just a nice bonus.

 

[RoyceConnors]

There's no requirement for readers here to either comment or vote. They have no "duties" or "responsibilities." If authors gear themselves to be a little less needy, they'll save themselves some grief.

I don't feel I'm being needy for looking for feedback, Sr. As I stated, this is new territory I'm exploring and I have a sketchy map of where I'm going. Asking for feedback is helping me get to where I want to go with the least amount of pitfalls.

I started with an idea for the story and ran with it. I'm now at ch 30 and have found I'm neck deep in something that I'm starting to struggle with. You, of all people, know I am actively searching for assistance and whether I find an editor willing to take my story on or not, I can at least hope to get some measure of response and guidence.

If I should only go by what scores I have, as a means of measuring success, how accurate are they? When they don't reflect a true judgement of the story, but a personal slight against me, or my story being higher in score than their's. I can go by readers favouriting me or my story as a true reflection of how well it's doing, but that is a very small percentage overall.

There really isn't an accurate way to judge how well I'm writing, unless I do get feedback, bad or good, IMHO. I'm not a sensitive person, that a comment will deter me from writing, when in actual fact, I'm asking for criticism. I don't see how a fledgling writer can learn and grow without it.

 

[sr71plt]

OK. Seems unnecessarily tortured to me, though.

 

[RoyceConnors]

This is not necessarily true. Like I said, this isn't peer review. Any feedback you get is just feedback from a random person who expressed an opinion. Nothing gives that opinion any more weight, or validity, than any other. Just because some "smith42" says your plot is flailing is no proof that it is; what if "jones24" says it's great?



Again, not necessarily. Now, I'm not saying you need to have the entire story thought out in your head before starting; lord knows I rarely do. But again, just because one person says X is a weak point, doesn't mean it is. I think the best you can do is that if multiple people agree on a point, check out that point in the sense of "where there's smoke there's fire." I've had this on my most recent story, and so I'll keep it in mind, but it doesn't mean they're rright.



If you'd like, I'll try to read a bit and get an idea of your sentence structure and see if I can offer any advice.
But see, as sr71 says, the readers don't owe the writers anything. Nor, really, do you owe the readers. I hope you're getting some pleasure out if it, otherwise that seems to me it'd be a bit of a slog to write.

We all want to be recognized, of course. I get a little bummed with negative feedback, and buoyed with positive; had I not gotten such positive feedback on my first story, I'm not sure if I would have continued. On the other hand, I wrote that story because *I* had an idea that *I* wanted to explore. The positive feedback was just a nice bonus.

You hit the nail on the head, in that multiple comments, good and bad, can help a writer judge how their story is going. I have a general idea of where this is going and roughly how it will end. As I've mentioned, Ch 16 is out now and I'm just finishing Ch 30, so I have lots of time to adjust the storyline if it's not playing out well.

I'd be more then happy if you took a look at it and gave me your thoughts. I've written numerous erotic stories and developed a style of writing more suited to that genre. This one is totally removed from those and I'm trying to write in a style best suited for this type of story.

I'm getting great amount of pleasure writing it. Just researching alone, has brought out ideas for future installments I'm adding. This is my labour of love and I'm going to write it down, I'd just like to give it my best shot. We write to be read, there's no denying that part.

 

[CharleyH]

Feedback is a peculiar beast. When I comment, it's because I like the story and wish to let the writer know that. I'm not likely to offer in-depth constructive criticism for a few reasons: I like to do so in private, I'm not sure the writer is looking for that, sometimes constructive criticism even if kindly worded can crush a new writer, and I don't wish to come off as officious because, well, I'm really not!

What I'm getting at is readers have more reasons not to critique a work than to do so, so it's not surprising so few offer advice of any kind. Many also don't feel qualified. While they qualify as readers (and I LOVE reader opinions, too, as you do), they may not want to advise, or alter, the future of the writer's vision. They're waiting for you to deliver your vision rather than theirs. They like or don't like the result, but they're not looking to create it.

I know I'm kind of rambling here, but you really are doing very well! Your chapters are getting high marks! For what it's worth, I've been reading Blood of the Clans, though not commenting. I usually don't comment when all I have to say is "I like this." I also am out of my element with the historical background involved, so can't be of much use. Should you want to pick my brain, though, drop me a line... er, PM.

I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. I want to be nice and kind to you, but can't help myself ... As a writer, I expect two things posting on Lit: to be loved or hated. It does not matter what you write - you will be loved and hated as a Lit writer. I'd suggest keep posting to the AH, but I don't think you will learn much from people here.

 

[sr71plt]

I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. I want to be nice and kind to you, but can't help myself ... As a writer, I expect two things posting on Lit: to be loved or hated. It does not matter what you write - you will be loved and hated as a Lit writer. I'd suggest keep posting to the AH, but I don't think you will learn much from people here.

Isn't there a third, and possibly larger thing that can be expected--just being ignored? Isn't that sometimes more disheartening for an author here than the other two you mentioned?

(Also, it isn't really clear, I think, who you are addressing your comments to. The one you quoted or the OP?)

 

[RoyceConnors]

I know I'm kind of rambling here, but you really are doing very well! Your chapters are getting high marks! For what it's worth, I've been reading Blood of the Clans, though not commenting. I usually don't comment when all I have to say is "I like this." I also am out of my element with the historical background involved, so can't be of much use. Should you want to pick my brain, though, drop me a line... er, PM.

Actually, you are the right kind of person to make comments and provide feedback. Feedback from an editor who is only proofreading my story, won't give me the same depth as a person who is reading it as a story they are interested in.

 

[PennLady]

Actually, you are the right kind of person to make comments and provide feedback. Feedback from an editor who is only proofreading my story, won't give me the same depth as a person who is reading it as a story they are interested in.

That is not true, or not necessarily true. I'm not saying an editor has to be interested -- I've edited stuff that isn't my cup of tea -- but an editor can be interested. An editor can proof read and be interested. Also, it almost doesn't matter if the editor is interested. It's the editor's job, whether they like the story or not, to point out inconsistencies, plot holes, etc.

Also, if a person is interested, that doesn't mean they'll give useful feedback. I've had plenty of interested readers whose feedback amounts to 'I love this!'

Not to mention, I've seen poorly written stories that also get rave reviews. This is why I say you need to take any feedback with a grain of salt.

 

[_Lynn_]

Actually, you are the right kind of person to make comments and provide feedback. Feedback from an editor who is only proofreading my story, won't give me the same depth as a person who is reading it as a story they are interested in.

I disagree. As PennLady pointed out, a good editor spots the inconsistencies even if the story is not one of interest to them. Someone reading a story because they like the topic will give their opinion, which does not always amount to much more than a sentence or two.

 

[talismania]

Actually, you are the right kind of person to make comments and provide feedback. Feedback from an editor who is only proofreading my story, won't give me the same depth as a person who is reading it as a story they are interested in.

Well, just because a person is interested in a story does not mean they're able to give you useful feedback. It's like dining at fine restaurant: someone may love the food, but that doesn't mean they know how to cook it.

From what I've read in this thread, you're looking for something more than what reader comments are intended to provide. You're really looking for an editor. By that I mean someone who will approach your story as an editor. I don't mean just a proofreader (though I bless them, really I do), because you've stated you want more help than that kind of editor can offer. And like PennLady said above, the best of all worlds is when you find a good editor who also loves your work. Heck, that's what I'd want!

What readers do in comments and what editors do are totally different things. Finding an editor is one of the great challenges of being a writer on Lit.

 

[CWatson]

Since I started writing this novel, Blood of the Clans, I've wondered if I am writing more for myself, or the readers.

For yourself. That's the only way to write whilst staying sane.

The Reader is a contrary and fickle beast. It's made up of forty gazillion opinions, and each one of them is different. F'ex, I'm the kind of person who prefers long stories (as opposed to stroke) with lots of character development (as opposed to stroke), set in a relatively realistic setting (as opposed to glossy fairy-tale optimism) and concerning characters with normal problems (no saving the world, no fending off unwanted harems of nubile young women) whom I can relate to and whose lessons I can apply to my own life. Now, obviously, I'm only one person, and pleasing my tastes isn't very hard. But it shouldn't take you more than about five minutes' walk from my exact location to meet someone who loves Twilight. I'm The Reader. She's also The Reader. Pleasing us both would be flat impossible, and you'd go mad if you tried. (Don't try, by the way. Please, for your father's sake.)

Writing is about one person: the writer, what he wants, what he needs, what he dreams. The Reader should be last on the list. If they're on it at all.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I disagree. As PennLady pointed out, a good editor spots the inconsistencies even if the story is not one of interest to them. Someone reading a story because they like the topic will give their opinion, which does not always amount to much more than a sentence or two.

I'll take your opinion highly then, as you have credentials present to back your words. I'm looking for an editor willing to go the distance with me and see my project through. If all I can get is the first novel, I'll have enough to make it through the next three.

I know it's asking an extreme measure from any one person to have to sit and read my story and help me put it together. I was in the mind that someone who was enjoying reading it, would want to go through the series and not just one novel. Too many cooks spoil the broth, more or less.

My original thought on this thread, was if I was wasting my time writing this for public consumption, or is it worthwhile to keep submitting. So feedback from readers is my only way of knowing that, until I have an editor on board. As mentioned, scores and such give me a general idea to go by.

I'm hoping an editor can show me areas where I can improve on, what I'm lacking in structure.

 

[sr71plt]

I've got to say that the impression I get considering the ratings and comments you've gotten on this series is that you really just want to soak up more praise for it. But if you really want what you are asking for, I agree with most of the others here--you are looking for a credentialed development editor. I think your problem there is that credentialed deveopment editors don't usually work with something that's openended and in the plans to go beyond 30 chapters. Think what you really need to promote interest in this type of work is a Soap Opera scriptwriter.

It seems to me that you are doing just fine with this series as it's cooking along. The stats are there.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I've got to say that the impression I get considering the ratings and comments you've gotten on this series is that you really just want to soak up more praise for it. But if you really want what you are asking for, I agree with most of the others here--you are looking for a credentialed development editor. I think your problem there is that credentialed deveopment editors don't usually work with something that's openended and in the plans to go beyond 30 chapters. Think what you really need to promote interest in this type of work is a Soap Opera scriptwriter.

It seems to me that you are doing just fine with this series as it's cooking along. The stats are there.

I certainly wouldn't say I was looking to soak up more praise. I know it was friends who made most of the comments so far, so a slight bias is present. I think a person like you describe would be apt for my needs, but that would be a tough nut to crack in finding one.

I realize my chapters are episodic and felt it had to be written that way for the continuity of the chapters.

Thanks for the nod on what I've done so far. My hopes are that I can bring this to an end with as much interest as it has now, maybe more, lol.

 

[PennLady]

My original thought on this thread, was if I was wasting my time writing this for public consumption, or is it worthwhile to keep submitting. So feedback from readers is my only way of knowing that, until I have an editor on board. As mentioned, scores and such give me a general idea to go by.

I'm hoping an editor can show me areas where I can improve on, what I'm lacking in structure.

I think the problem here is that even feedback is not a great measure of whether you should continue writing. Part of that is the fact that this is a free site, and people's use of it probably swings. They'll have lots of time to read in January, not so much in March. So someone may be reading you faithfully, then stop, because of other demands on their time.

As for "waste of time" -- surely you've seen the range of quality in stories. Yet they continue to be posted.

It's only a waste of time if you think it is. Yes, we all want to be read and receive good "reviews," no question. But we can't all get that and we certainly shouldn't rely on it.

If you want to finish, then you should. As CWatson said -- writing is about the writer.