About that Muslim Brotherhood...

[off2bed]

Your reading assignment http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1235

Still think the protests in Egypt are about freedom and democracy?

 

[Busybody]

Yes

The MB renounced violence long ago

Why are you denying that and posting smear propoganda stuff?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Yes, I think they are.



I also think the better organized group which has been working to create a vacuum will prevail and it ain't the humble bumble "organization" of the former UN NEW-CLAR inspector...
__________________
"As I said, we will be out of Afghanistan by the end of this year."
Barack Hussein Obama, January, 2011

 

[off2bed]

What group was backing opposition candidates in Egypt's November '10 elections? What group was shut out of those elections, sparking these protests?

The MB.

The news media hasn't bothered to mention that, probably because they are, as the article in the OP suggests, the MB's useful idiots.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

You know they are...





The press loves a good thug and will make sure the news they report maintains their access to the thug, it's Iraq-ja vu all over again...

 

[vrosej10]

I am too fucking tired tonight. I misread this thread as 'off to bed with a muslim'. And I'm thinking this is a pretty tolerant thread for GB and then commonsense kicked.

 

[off2bed]

You know they are...





The press loves a good thug and will make sure the news they report maintains their access to the thug, it's Iraq-ja vu all over again...

Plus, they will ridicule and discredit anyone who calls the thug a thug.

 

[Ishmael]

I posted concerning the 'Brotherhood' years ago. They are the root of every modern Islamist movement in the world today, even Iran although the Persians would never admit to getting an idea from those Arab pigs. Sayyid Qutb is the guy you want to research if you want to get to the foundation and motivation of this particular group.

Ishmael

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

√ No nuance!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I posted concerning the 'Brotherhood' years ago. They are the root of every modern Islamist movement in the world today, even Iran although the Persians would never admit to getting an idea from those Arab pigs. Sayyid Qutb is the guy you want to research if you want to get to the foundation and motivation of this particular group.

Ishmael

Bashir's Father knew how to deal with them...

Surround them and kill everyone around them, especially the innocent!

__________________
"As I said, we will be out of Afghanistan by the end of this year."
Barack Hussein Obama, January, 2011

 

[Ishmael]

I can see no good end coming of all of this and it's our own naivete' that will do us in. Ironically unless our attitude goes through a radical change it will be the Russians and the Chinese that save the world from this scourge.

We keep looking to those 'moderate' Muslims to save us from the radical elements like the Muslim Brotherhood, and in every case where the radical elements obtained control of their respective nations it is those very 'moderate' Muslims that are looking to us to save them. Needless to say no one is doing anything of consequence.

Ishmael

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I can see no good end coming of all of this and it's our own naivete' that will do us in. Ironically unless our attitude goes through a radical change it will be the Russians and the Chinese that save the world from this scourge.

We keep looking to those 'moderate' Muslims to save us from the radical elements like the Muslim Brotherhood, and in every case where the radical elements obtained control of their respective nations it is those very 'moderate' Muslims that are looking to us to save them. Needless to say no one is doing anything of consequence.

Ishmael

Are you discounting the inspiring speeches and the pride that comes from finally having a clean, articulate President?
__________________
"How about just tracking down every single person who said drill baby drill and putting them all in prison. Why don’t we do that?"
Alan Grayson

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

January 30, 2011
The Decline of Egypt
By Ashraf Ramelah

When I received word of the fatal car bomb attack on Coptic worshipers leaving the Saints Coptic Church in Alexandria after this year's New Year's mass, I recalled my earliest memories of the first of these brutal, senseless, and unprovoked attacks against the Coptic people in my homeland of Egypt. Eighty-three Christians were massacred in El-Zawia El Hamra, Cairo in 1980 by Muslim believers committing an act of jihad similar to this current episode and similar to what we now face in other parts of the world today. We took our persecution for granted, and I wondered then where my country was heading.

Egypt is no longer a civilized country when Egyptian Copts are vulnerable to barbaric attacks and treated at best like strangers and more often like enemies in their own land. As a native Egyptian Copt growing up in Cairo in the 1950s and '60s I was mindful of our separate and diminished role. We lived as immigrants, without full rights, within our own land. The discrimination was real, and I had little hope for my future. Never mind that my beloved country was once the cradle of civilization and that my roots extended deep into the stories of the Pharaohs.

Growing up in Egypt as a Copt, I witnessed the growing presence of Islam in our streets and in our government day-by-day, and I sensed the decline of a civilized country. As Western values sought to take root and usher in a new modernity, the predominant Arab-Muslim influence was taking the culture backwards toward more primitive notions. What happened to this great center of civilization is represented today in the horrific and inhumane treatment of the Copts. This theocratic state lashes out against those who live outside the chosen religion within Egypt and prepares Egyptian Muslims to do the same beyond their borders. Mohammed Atta, for one, hails from Egypt.

Examining the past sixty years of Egyptian rule to understand the stages of its decline, we see how a once-highly civilized nation was thrown to the wolves and how barely a shred of decency and humanity remains. Egypt's democracy today is little more than a stage show for a world audience.

The idea of the Arab Omma (nation) started with Nasser. In 1964, he attempted to destabilize Saudi Arabia indirectly by sending Egypt's army to help Yemen in their war against the Saudis. He pressed Egyptian citizens to work in Saudi Arabia as a fifth column as part of his master design to become the supreme ruler over Arab nations and the Islamic Omma. Nasser followed the ideology of Hassan El-Banna of the Muslim Brotherhood, and with this, he generated the Fedayyn terrorist organization headed by Arafat to fight Israel.

Nasser hid his real goals for Egypt behind a false socialist agenda, using it to confiscate private property and sell it to the poor, who became indebted to the state. He nationalized the majority of Egyptian private businesses owned by Christians and Jews. He further damaged the Coptic Church by intercepting the funds in personal family trusts en route to church coffers.

Following Nasser, Sadat took control in 1970 along with his contingency of the Muslim Brotherhood, whom he was slowly releasing from jail. He welcomed in a new wave of Islamists, and over time, he began to expunge the Nasserian believers and followers of socialism. Even worse for the country, those Muslims sent by Nasser to Saudi Arabia now returned to Egypt fully absorbed in Wahhabi and Sufi doctrine -- a devastating prospect for the Copts and other minority religions of Egypt.

Under Sadat's leadership, discrimination against Copts increased. Church leaders came under attack for the first time since the coup d'état of 1952. The conflict reached its height when various priests were arrested and Sadat decided to commit the Coptic pope to an asylum. The church became a target for violence, and Christian women and girls began to be kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam.

Mubarak followed the footsteps of his two predecessors as he furthered the Islamization of Egypt, which in turn increased the level of discrimination against Copts. In nearly thirty years of ruling Egypt, Mubarak did nothing of significance to facilitate relations between Christians and Muslims. Instead, he carried out the original Islamization of Egypt designed by those who authored the Coup of 1952 (the revolution) that overthrew King Farouk.

The American Thinker

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

"Egypt's democracy today is little more than a stage show for a world audience"

... of "Social Liberal" Statist Elites and their press...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

As the Middle East Begins to Burn...

Are you discounting the inspiring speeches and the pride that comes from finally having a clean, articulate President?
__________________
"How about just tracking down every single person who said drill baby drill and putting them all in prison. Why don’t we do that?"
Alan Grayson

The EPA is moving to restrict Texas' ability to continue as the largest production base for natural gas in the nation. As the largest consumer and producer of natural gas, Texas provides an important alternative in energy production to the conventional fossil fuels of coal and oil Those fuels have fallen into dire regulatory restrictions that Vice President Biden suggested should eventually lead to the end of coal production in the United States. Natural gas has emerged as an important transitional fuel to the green economy. Despite this, the Obama administration is moving to limit this component of Texas' economic boom.

A secret weapon in the battle over Texas is EPA regulator Dr. Al Armendariz. Armendariz was tapped by the Obama administration to limit natural gas production in Texas. In his seminal article on natural gas production from the Barnett shale in North Texas, Armendariz argues that gas production contributes more to global warming than automotive traffic in Dallas:

"For comparison, 2009 emission inventories recently used by state and federal regulators estimated smog- forming emissions from all airports in the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area to be 16 tpd. In addition, these same inventories had emission estimates for on-road motor vehicles (cars, trucks, etc.) in the 9- county Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area of 273 tpd. The portion of on-road motor vehicle emissions from the 5-counties in the D-FW metropolitan area with significant oil and gas production was 121 tpd, indicating that the oil and gas sector likely has greater emissions than motor vehicles in these counties."

The research relies on "personal conversations" Armendariz had with natural gas producers in the Dallas area. This is not generally acceptable standard for research but it is laying the foundation for intensely regulating the last major fossil fuel that Texas and the United States can turn to in the 21st century. The promotion of the activist/ expert to the office of EPA bodes ill for energy use in the United States. The EPA plans to designate Dallas air as "serious" with regard to ozone pollution based on 1997 standards. Though Dallas has economically boomed and had a population increase of more than 25% since 1997, the city has reduced ozone levels from 102 parts per billion to 86 parts per billion. This impressive feat draws no acceptance from the EPA and the 2 ppb will be enough to designate Dallas as having some of the dirtiest air in the nation. Dallas air is getting cleaner and will likely soon meet the 1997 standard despite rapid economic growth, but the EPA is eager to dIM the star of Lone Star success.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/the_epas_mess_with_texas.html



Wonder what effect U_D and merc will think this will have on our "Show ME the Doom and Gloom!" economy?

__________________
When I was asked earlier about, uh, the issue of coal. Uhhh, y'know, under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket....
We would put a cap-and-trade system in place, eh, that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're gonna be charged a huge sum for all that, uh, greenhouse gas that's being emitted.
Barack Hussein Obama
Editorial board meeting, San Francisco Chronicle
January 2008

A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...,
John P. Holdren
White House Office of Science and Technology Director

 

[Babalugats]

What group was backing opposition candidates in Egypt's November '10 elections? What group was shut out of those elections, sparking these protests?

The MB.

The news media hasn't bothered to mention that, probably because they are, as the article in the OP suggests, the MB's useful idiots.

What group is pushing for protest in Jordan?

 

[Babalugats]

Your reading assignment http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1235

Still think the protests in Egypt are about freedom and democracy?

In line with this objective, Akram and the Brotherhood resolved to "settle" Islam and the Islamic movement within the United States, so that the Muslim religion could be "enabled within the souls, minds and the lives of the people of the country.”

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Consider recent precedents in this regard:

1. Iranian revolution, 1978-1979: Mass protests by a wide coalition against dictatorship. Result? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is now president.

2. Beirut Spring: Christians, Sunni Muslims, and Druze unite against Syrian control. Moderate government gains power. Result? Hezbollah is now running Lebanon.

3. Palestinians have free elections: Voters protest against corrupt regime. Result? Hamas is now running the Gaza Strip.

4. Algeria holds free elections: Voters back moderate Islamist group. Result? Military coup; Islamists turn (or reveal their true thinking) radical; tens of thousands of people killed.

But what do Egyptians really think? According to a recent Pew poll, they are extremely radical even in comparison to Jordan or Lebanon. When asked whether they preferred “Islamists” or “modernizers,” the score was 59% to 27% in favor of the Islamists. In addition, 20 percent said they liked al-Qaeda; 30 percent, Hezbollah; 49 percent, Hamas. And this was at a time that their government daily propagandized against these groups.

How about religious views? Egyptian Muslims said the following: 82 percent want adulterers punished with stoning; 77 percent want robbers to be whipped and have their hands amputated; 84 percent favor the death penalty for any Muslim who changes his religion.

 

[Busybody]

There can be only 2 results from this

1-We can let the whole Me turn radical and pretend it doesn't and hope nothing happens

2-Or sooner or later have a major war with untold deaths and consequences and a CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS

no middle ground

 

[Busybody]

I could be wrong!

ISRAELI REPORTS “friendly atmosphere” in Cairo. “The attitude towards us as Israelis and tourist is very friendly. Actually, they’re overly nice compared to my previous visits in Egypt. The Egyptians want to explain themselves, to tell everyone about their struggle. They speak Arabic over here so it’s easy to communicate with them. On Friday we went right past the demonstrations on our way back from the pyramids, and people helped us get though the crowd.”



maybe the 3rd way is what Bush wanted, DEMOCRACY FOR ALL

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

There can be only 2 results from this

1-We can let the whole Me turn radical and pretend it doesn't and hope nothing happens

2-Or sooner or later have a major war with untold deaths and consequences and a CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS

no middle ground

The only important question and the only meaningful result is...





HOW CAN WE BLAME BUSH and General (you thought I was going to say Betrayus, didn't you! ) Republican Philosophy...

 

[Busybody]

The only important question and the only meaningful result is...





HOW CAN WE BLAME BUSH and General (you thought I was going to say Betrayus, didn't you! ) Republican Philosophy...

Matthews did already!

 

[Busybody]

Sometimes you get the feeling that liberal pundits are all going around the bend together, in a grand carnival of craziness. Take Chris Matthews, who began his report on the riots in Egypt with this rant:


Here is the transcript, for those who just can't stand to watch Matthews:

Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.

Leading off tonight: Unrest in Egypt. Proving the Iraq war wasn`t needed, these protests in Egypt, as well as in Yemen and Tunisia, are all aimed at dictators supported by the U.S. The demonstrations have not yet turned anti-American, but they could. These are the events the Bush administration hoped to encourage by lying about weapons of mass destruction and invading Iraq.

Matthews takes obsession to the brink of insanity. What possible reason is there to begin one's coverage of events in Egypt with partisan references to George Bush and Iraq? How on earth do riots in Egypt and Tunisia "prov[e] the Iraq war wasn't needed?" Two weeks ago Egypt and Tunisia were quiet; was that evidence that the Iraq war was needed? Libya is quiet still; is that evidence that the Iraq war was necessary? This is all a bizarre non sequitur.

Matthews says that the current unrest is "aimed at dictators supported by the U.S." But how does that relate to George W. Bush or the Iraq war? The U.S. has supported the Egyptian government for decades, a policy that has been continued by Barack Obama and the Democratic Congress. Again, what is the point? In 2009 there were violent demonstrations in Iran, against a dictatorship that is not supported by the U.S. Did that prove that the Iraq war was a good idea? Or was that also evidence that the Iraq war was unnecessary? If so, why are we talking about which governments are supported by the U.S.? Does Matthews have any idea what he is talking about?

Next Matthews claims that the Bush administration "hoped to encourage" the events (i.e., riots and their suppression) that we now see in Egypt, Yemen and Tunisia. But wait! Didn't Matthews just say that all of these governments are "supported by the U.S.?" So why would Bush (or Obama) want to encourage riots against those governments?

Matthews says the Bush administration "hoped to encourage" riots by "lying about weapons of mass destruction and invading Iraq." I don't get that either. Apart from the silliness about "lying"--both Democrats and Republicans thought Saddam had WMDs, as did the CIA and the intelligence agency of every Western country--what is the connection? Why would "lying about weapons of mass destruction" cause Egyptians and Tunisians to riot, either in 2003 or seven years later? What in the world--in short--is Matthews talking about?

We can take it as a given that most liberals do not have high standards when it comes to political commentary. Still, one can only wonder at the fact that they are willing to put up with this sort of deluded, obsessive nonsense from the members of their media team.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Babalugats]

The only important question and the only meaningful result is...





HOW CAN WE BLAME BUSH and General (you thought I was going to say Betrayus, didn't you! ) Republican Philosophy...

Bush called for elections in 2005 saying “end tyranny in our world,” Well, they got the governments they wanted. When elections are held, or monarchs and autocrats overthrown, the masses will turn to leaders who will pull away from America and stand in solidarity with the Palestinians.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Egypt is the largest nation in the Arab world and the fulcrum of American foreign policy among Arab nations. Its streets are ablaze with fires; its police have been withdrawn and replaced by the army; an attempt by President Hosni Mubarak to quell the rioters has only inflamed them further. The Obama administration is responding as if it is tiptoeing through a mine field. Those waiting for American leadership have to contend with the empty platitudes of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who is urging restraint on the Mubarak regime.

The scene is all too reminiscent of the Iranian revolution of 1979. Then, President Jimmy Carter not only demanded restraint but also had his administration work behind the scenes to bring down the shah. Carter believed he was watching a democratic revolution unfold, one led by Mehdi Bazargan, Sadegh Ghotbzadeh and Abulhassan Banisadr. Neither Carter nor his advisers understood that this democratic-centrist revolution, like those in Europe, would be short-lived. Bazargan resigned from the government over its authoritarian turn; Ghotbzadeh was shot by a firing squad; and Banisadr fled to France, where he currently lives under heavy police protection.

As someone who spent decades studying riots, revolutions, and other forms of civil violence, I have some advice for the administration:

Hillary Clinton might consider remaining silent for the duration of the event. One of the dramatic non-PC findings of the Kerner Commission Report on our own experiences with civil unrest is that even a legitimate government that hesitates in the face of riots will both inflame and contribute to the duration and intensity of violence. Riots end when there are swift, decisive, and appropriate responses to the violence. Riots persist when the police hesitate, when the police are restrained, and when the rioters feel they are in control.

Studies of revolution, including the Russian Revolution, show that the loyalty of several companies of armed, disciplined, and well-led soldiers willing to continually fire into the mobs would crush any revolution.* Such an observation sounds barbaric until you consider the millions of lives that are needlessly wasted in a revolution and its aftermath. Imagine if the second Russian Revolution, the October Revolution, the one the Communists made, had been stopped in its tracks: no Lenin, no Civil War, no Stalin, no Gulags, no invasion of Poland, no totalitarian dictatorship. The taking of a few hundred or thousand lives in the streets of St. Petersburg would have saved the lives of countless millions.

Revolutions are like a cart running downhill, as Alexis de Tocqueville observed in his brilliant analysis of the French Revolution. The American media is focused on the demand for democratic reform voiced by the mobs in the streets of Egypt. But revolutions don’t stop with the initial demands. Revolutions create power vacuums that draw new players with different agendas from those who initially sought to make the revolution. Revolutions move to the extremes, usually to the left. Those who join the mob to demand more liberty will ultimately create a regime that extinguishes all liberty. Did those who ran through the streets of Paris in July 1789 think they were revolting for the ensuing “Terror”? Did the workers who charged the Winter Palace in 1917 think they were fighting for the Gulag? Did Banisadr and Ghotbzadeh think they were replacing the shah of Iran with a theocracy?

The choice in the streets of Egypt is not Mubarak or democracy. It is Mubarak or the Muslim Brotherhood. It is the Muslim Brotherhood, like the ayatollahs of Tehran, who are the best situated to benefit from and direct the revolution, unless of course the Egyptian military holds firm.

If the Brotherhood comes to power, it will behave as did its proxy in Gaza: one man, one vote, one time, with the opposition shot in the legs and thrown off rooftops.

Abraham H. Miller
Pajamas Media



* Reminiscent of Napoleon's rise to power by giving the French rioters a taste o'the grape...