I thought it was an Authors' Hangout, where we could take a break, discuss whatever--and then get back to our real work, which to my way of thinking is writing true, hot, gut-wrenching, beautiful, believable, grammatically-correct, literate, delicious sex. Right now I've got three of my favorite characters (stolen from Grand Master dweaver999; again I acknowledge one of the greats of our craft) standing in front of me, two of them pregnant, all of them naked, and I am about to have the most convulsive jerkoff of my life (all imaginary, I assure you all-- and my wife's detectives). That trumps all this good bullshit about Theists, atheists, agnostics and first basemen (who's on first?).
On Being Atheist...
- Thread starter amicus
- Start date
I thought it was an Authors' Hangout, where we could take a break, discuss whatever--and then get back to our real work, which to my way of thinking is writing true, hot, gut-wrenching, beautiful, believable, grammatically-correct, literate, delicious sex. Right now I've got three of my favorite characters (stolen from Grand Master dweaver999; again I acknowledge one of the greats of our craft) standing in front of me, two of them pregnant, all of them naked, and I am about to have the most convulsive jerkoff of my life (all imaginary, I assure you all-- and my wife's detectives). That trumps all this good bullshit about Theists, atheists, agnostics and first basemen (who's on first?).
Stella_Omega
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Cloudy, why apologise to me about it? You know I agree with you.
There should be a Politics and current events forum here at literotica.
There isn't, and all of our requests to create one have gone unheeded.
If laurel does not deem fit to move threads like this one, who am I to keep on fighting a losing battle?
At least we've seen her move jimybob's gratuitous hate speech threads-- ONLY because he has nothing published at lit, evidently-- otherwise he could start whatever threads he wanted just like amicus does, regardless of topic.
And maybe that's only because the Tuscon shooting has pissed her off-- maybe after awhile she'll go back to the do-nothing mode, when she forgets about it along with the rest of the USA.
There should be a Politics and current events forum here at literotica.
There isn't, and all of our requests to create one have gone unheeded.
If laurel does not deem fit to move threads like this one, who am I to keep on fighting a losing battle?
At least we've seen her move jimybob's gratuitous hate speech threads-- ONLY because he has nothing published at lit, evidently-- otherwise he could start whatever threads he wanted just like amicus does, regardless of topic.
And maybe that's only because the Tuscon shooting has pissed her off-- maybe after awhile she'll go back to the do-nothing mode, when she forgets about it along with the rest of the USA.
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stephen55
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I once saw a comment on a board by a church, one of those boards with a message for the people driving by. It said...
Faith is believing in what the eyes cannot see...
That sounds about right. If you can see it (or know it's true by some verifiable means), you accept it by reason and not by faith. So yes, truth does not require faith.
What then, does faith require? What does it take to believe in something you cannot see, has no material existence and either exists only in the minds of humanity or, if it exists out there beyond our ability to perceive, will always be beyond our ability to perceive?
Personally, I think that faith requires the ability to accept as real, something that is not real. In psychiatry, this is called a delusion. When I was in medical school, I was taught that religious beliefs got a free pass when it comes to delusions, which always struck me as a double standard. Belief in some being(s) with supernatural powers is okay but believing yourself to have those powers is delusional. One of the clinical psychiatrists I worked with was also an ordained minister. It seemed inconsistent.
I guess what it comes down to is that faith requires a lack of truth, which to me, also means it requires a lack of reason.
Handley_Page
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" Atheism is a rejection of all faiths and all beliefs; a rational, cognitive quest for understanding the nature of life. "
Alabama's not the place to be, then ?
Alabama's not the place to be, then ?
cloudy
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um....what?????
Boota
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I am saying that you can prove a negative when something's existence is self-contradictory. You don't need to know every secret of the universe to know that circles with corners do not exist. With all the attributes given to the Christian god, he is a self-contradiction, and therefore cannot exist. It's not trying to pin evidence on it. It is proof that god is impossible. Not that it matters, though. No amount of proof would ever satisfy the believer. I, on the other hand, if god was PROVEN to me I would be able to accept it. I still wouldn't worship him, though. If God exists he is evil. Fuck him.
That's not the reason I don't believe in gods, though. I don't believe in gods because it is no longer the Dark Ages. The list of reasons not to believe is endless. The reasons to believe, as far as I can see, is willful ignorance and/or fear.
I have to admit, when I find out that someone believes in god I do lose a modicum of respect for them. I can't help it. I can still like them, I can still hang out with them. I can even think of them "otherwise" intelligent. But it's like finding out that an adult still believes in the Tooth Fairy. For whichever reason, willful ignorance or fear, it doesn't matter. No religious belief deserves respect. The person who believes still does, but the belief does not.
Stella_Omega
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OH how I wish I'd put all of that together, Boota! 
I'm quoting you far and wide.
I'm quoting you far and wide.
sr71plt
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Well, the problem with belief, Boota, is that it gives you no choice. What you truly believe, you believe. You can't escape it. You can deny it, but you are lying if you do. A belief is absolute.
Now, what I'll grant is that a whole lot of people who say they believe in something, don't actually, and are just sticking to their environment/comfort zone, or engaging in wishful thinking, or just lying to themselves.
If I encounter someone who seems to actually believe in a particular religion, though, I'm just happy for them and leave it at that. (And hope to who/whatever that they don't try to proselytize me--even the athiests.)
I think I'm zeroing in on being either a Deist or a Unitarian. Until I decide I'll be an environmental Methodist to avoid nonproductive "discussions" with my relatives.
Now, what I'll grant is that a whole lot of people who say they believe in something, don't actually, and are just sticking to their environment/comfort zone, or engaging in wishful thinking, or just lying to themselves.
If I encounter someone who seems to actually believe in a particular religion, though, I'm just happy for them and leave it at that. (And hope to who/whatever that they don't try to proselytize me--even the athiests.)
I think I'm zeroing in on being either a Deist or a Unitarian. Until I decide I'll be an environmental Methodist to avoid nonproductive "discussions" with my relatives.
1sickbastard
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1sickbastard
Seriously?
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This point of view is shared by many, atheist, agnostic, and the faithful of every stripe.
However, I see two fundamental misconceptions;
1) that H. Sapiens is truly rational. Sure, we are capable of rational thought, but I think the core of our being is irrational. Have you ever been in love? Was it a rational decision or was it something you felt in the fiber of your being? Is self-sacrifice rational?
2) If a god, gods or God does exist, can such a entity be ruled by rational thought? Why would it constrain itself with logic? Remember, while logic and rational thinking are tremendously powerful tools for trying to make sense of reality, they are only tools.
A humanity that has reached the point in its evolution that it can transition to a mature, adult existence of rational thinking and consideration of an existance without a god at the helm, will be, I think, no longer human as we define it. It is possible that one day Homo Superior will arise, but that day will happen long after long after the 21st century has faded from memory, legend or even myth. And the beings who may, one day, excavate our crumbled civilization, probing into the mounds of our waste will wonder "what manner of creatures were these?"
Stella_Omega
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Yes, self sacrifice can be quite rational. You, like so many people think that rational means "Disinterested, emotionally detached, Mr. Spock-like." But it doesn't mean that.
rational thinking, empirical research, and the scientific process (which is not at all the same as "logic," which is a process for argument and discussion) are indeed tremendously powerful tools for understanding reality. belief and imagination are not. You don't throw away the best tools for the job in favor of make-do, make-shift tools.
Bullshit. there IS no god at the helm, just a lot of people who think there is.
That's good. You should use it in a story.
Liar
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True. The Christian god (or for that matter, Allah or any other iteration of Jahve) as represented by various religious doctrine, is self contradicting and thus does not exist. Philosophically speaking, this could be for two different reasons. He could indeed not exist, or he could be mis-represented.
I hear the argument all the time: If God is infallible, why is God's creation imperfect? This begs two questions:
Why do you assume that for god to exist, god must be infallible? That's what religious doctrine says, but religious doctrine say and have said a lot of stupid things over the years for all manners of stupid reasons. Mostly political.
And is the creation really imperfect? Is the universe imperfect, in the eyes of an atheist? Not in the eyes of this one.
I'm with you on that. I tend to approach people I know are religious a little different than I approach secular folks. They'll have to prove their thinking capacity for me before I can trust them as rational people, while I give way too much leeway to non-believers.
lovecraft68
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I agree with pretty much everything here and a lot of what others have said. As humans we desperately want to believe there is more. A reward at the end of life's journey. problem is in trying to attain this reward we deny ourselves all kinds of fun along the way to "earn" our spot. Bullshit why should I deny myself for a faceless deity that may or may not exist. Well anyway I am sure this will earn me all kinds of abuse but I am true to my beliefs and her we go.
I am a Satanist. I follow the teachings of Anton Levay rather than get into any type of explanation or debate I am just going to paste in the statements, sins and principles of my beliefs. First off get the Hollywood satanist out of your head. I do not kill goats, children, or participate in orgies. I am not on drugs (hell I don't even smoke) only drink occasionally I am happily married with two beautiful daughters (They do not share my beliefs as I never push) I live to the code listed below. read them open minded and you will see they make more sense than you think. Admittedly the gist is take care of your ass over anyone else and live for indulgence over abstinence but not to the point where you bring yourself down. Well anyway here they are. read it live it.
Note where it says to love and respect those who love and respect you Fuck everyone else. We can only save ourselves no one else.
The Nine Satanic Statements
The Nine Satanic Statements outline what "Satan" represents in the Church of Satan:[9]
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.
[edit] The Nine Satanic Sins
1. Stupidity
2. Pretentiousness
3. Solipsism
4. Self-deceit
5. Herd Conformity
6. Lack of Perspective
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8. Counterproductive Pride
9. Lack of Aesthetics
[edit] The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Youve just defined Democrats and all Usual Suspects.
PoppingTom
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After the breakdown of socialism, I question absolutely every belief.
On the other hand: I accept every belief that's not misanthropic. People have the right to err.
I prefer logic until it doesn't last. And sometimes even logic and science can do inhuman things.
A lot of beliefs are feeded by feelings, often non-logic. Sometimes this can be the right way.
What's right, what's wrong? Well, I only know one thing: There are no bad men. Only masses of misunderstoods and errors.
Howggh
On the other hand: I accept every belief that's not misanthropic. People have the right to err.
I prefer logic until it doesn't last. And sometimes even logic and science can do inhuman things.
A lot of beliefs are feeded by feelings, often non-logic. Sometimes this can be the right way.
What's right, what's wrong? Well, I only know one thing: There are no bad men. Only masses of misunderstoods and errors.
Howggh
Bebeslut
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squarejohn
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Every group of people, in every era, has found it necessary to have at least one god to worship and fear; in other words, it is a human characteristic to believe in a god. Another characteristic of being human is the ability to reason. Still another, the facility of imagination.
Reason and imagination have limitations which often lead us onto a path of error and regret (well, Judge, it seemed like a good idea at the time). Reason is incapable of explaining a belief or disbelief in a god. Imagination can easily conjure up a god concept. The god concept exists in atheists as well as believers. The believer states simply, "I believe in god." The atheist says, " I do not believe in god."
By stating his negative belief in god, the atheist acknowledges at least a concept of god. But he cannot produce evidence that there is no god, any more than the believer can produce evidence that there is a god.
So where to proceed from here?
This doesn't supply proof, but is is another way looking at this question. In a discussion like this, the space-time continuum is almost certain to be mentioned. When that happens, the words "infinity" and "eternity" appear in the discussion. What do these words actually mean?
Generally, the word "infinity" is understood to mean unending vastness, an incomprehensibly large size or space. In actuality, infinity refers to "no space."
Eternity is thought to be an endless span of time. In actuality, eternity means "no time."
Time and space are actually conditions of objective consciousness. They are powerful illusions but in actuality--rather than in reality--time and space do not exist. Without time and space, the universe becomes a singularity.
What then, is the nature of the singularity?
This idea is not original with me, but where does that put us in relation to one another? Where, in relation to God? Could it be that the singularity/universe is nothing other than consciousness? And we, as part of this consciousness are, in actuality, God, himself.
I haven't proven or disproven anything here. I just thought I'd toss this in as something to chew on. Since no effort of rational thought can prove whether God exists, all we can do is have faith in that which we believe. And, something else to chew on, whatever we believe, is the correct belief.
Reason and imagination have limitations which often lead us onto a path of error and regret (well, Judge, it seemed like a good idea at the time). Reason is incapable of explaining a belief or disbelief in a god. Imagination can easily conjure up a god concept. The god concept exists in atheists as well as believers. The believer states simply, "I believe in god." The atheist says, " I do not believe in god."
By stating his negative belief in god, the atheist acknowledges at least a concept of god. But he cannot produce evidence that there is no god, any more than the believer can produce evidence that there is a god.
So where to proceed from here?
This doesn't supply proof, but is is another way looking at this question. In a discussion like this, the space-time continuum is almost certain to be mentioned. When that happens, the words "infinity" and "eternity" appear in the discussion. What do these words actually mean?
Generally, the word "infinity" is understood to mean unending vastness, an incomprehensibly large size or space. In actuality, infinity refers to "no space."
Eternity is thought to be an endless span of time. In actuality, eternity means "no time."
Time and space are actually conditions of objective consciousness. They are powerful illusions but in actuality--rather than in reality--time and space do not exist. Without time and space, the universe becomes a singularity.
What then, is the nature of the singularity?
This idea is not original with me, but where does that put us in relation to one another? Where, in relation to God? Could it be that the singularity/universe is nothing other than consciousness? And we, as part of this consciousness are, in actuality, God, himself.
I haven't proven or disproven anything here. I just thought I'd toss this in as something to chew on. Since no effort of rational thought can prove whether God exists, all we can do is have faith in that which we believe. And, something else to chew on, whatever we believe, is the correct belief.
sr71plt
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Wouldn't a real atheist not use the "probably"?
Stella_Omega
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A real scientist, however, would.
lovecraft68
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I couldn't agree more on your earlier posts about getting a political forum here. That way those of us to join Lit to... hold on now... talk about erotica and reading and writing it or discussing it or even talking dirty like teenagers.... can talk about it without being interrupted by these high brow Rush Limbaugh wannabees that feel the need to start and end everyday on their soapbox. Save it for C-Span or talk radio. Is there a God? I don't know I'm to busy trying to figure out whose going to fuck who in my next story.
For the record though Lit does have a political forum. It's called the general board and populated by such staggering intellects as Pointless, Nipples Mcgee, Sean H and his army of Alts, and a cast of well ten's. You want to hear some failed politicians spout off go there. No really go now. Please.
sr71plt
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And therein lies the rub. It wouldn't be enough to create a political forum. Someone would have to actively move political threads to that forum from the AH, because, as you say, there already is an appropriate forum for the political stuff and yet those Rush Limbaugh wannabees (most who don't write or read erotica here at all) are choosing to post at AH just to irritate and will likely continue to do so until/unless everything they write here is moved by someone. It's the "someone" who is lacking, because the process already exists (and was exercised this week in a one-off effort) to just move the threads.
lovecraft68
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You know I was going to add that none of those guys write but wasn't a hundred percent sure and did not want to look more ignorant than usual. You know maybe, of course this is more work for the owners, they could figure out a special log in for the AH your handle has to be one that has stories published under it. or in addition to your handle and password everyone is assigned an author "id" #. Probably to much work and honestly I don't really care what they talk about amongst themselves but they drag others in and act like everyone else is stupid. I mean no offense to you or anyone else but at the end of the day do I really care if Literotica nation thinks I have a high IQ? I care if people like my work or want to discuss theirs but I mean that's really it. I have no insecurities to compensate for that requires me to flex my current event prowess.
Stella_Omega
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Some years ago I started campaigning for a moderator on this forum, SR set up a poll (to shut me up, but now he's kinda more on board with the idea), all the trolls and non-regulars came racing into the forum to vote the idea down. Laurel accepted the votes of regulars and never-been-heres with equal weight.
I lost some social juice, and certain people like to remind me that I'm a loser and a Nazi commie dictator.
We can do it again, if you want to watch the process repeat itself. You can be the Nazi this time, though.
I lost some social juice, and certain people like to remind me that I'm a loser and a Nazi commie dictator.
We can do it again, if you want to watch the process repeat itself. You can be the Nazi this time, though.
lovecraft68
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Some years ago I started campaigning for a moderator on this forum, SR set up a poll (to shut me up, but now he's kinda more on board with the idea), all the trolls and non-regulars came racing into the forum to vote the idea down. Laurel accepted the votes of regulars and never-been-heres with equal weight.
I lost some social juice, and certain people like to remind me that I'm a loser and a Nazi commie dictator.
We can do it again, if you want to watch the process repeat itself. You can be the Nazi this time, though.
You know, I know that I should by now, but for the life of me I have never understood the desire of people to ruin things or other people. Sad there is that much pettiness even on a "sex site" I mean this site has cliques, factions it's juts like high school. So just like high school I'll do my own thing and have as much fun as I can. But you know what we could do? A bunch of us can get together pick a designated night and time and all start posting those annoying writing questions on the General Board. I saw a girl leave a BDSM type message on there a couple of nights back and were they ever mad!! Telling her she was in the wrong forum and then talking about how sick she was. I once made the mistake of putting an incest question on there
Anyway I think we do it. Start an actual sex pole then spend the night arguing with them could be fun. Or it could just be like another night with my in laws!
