Questions About Feedback

[Angeline]

I've been doing a lot of comments here lately (thanks to the 52 pick-up challenge), and it has me thinking about feedback: what is helpful and what is not. My comments tend to be long and specific, and I know that comes from years of being an editor. It's hard for me to read anything and not get a flood of ideas about how it might be different and/or better. One of my editor friends once referred to this as a curse.

What, for you, constitutes helpful feedback? When you get what you think is good feedback, what does it look like? What kinds of things do you wish people would (or would not) tell you about a poem you have submitted? Is it distracting to get a lot of info as opposed to something more succinct?

I'd love to know what people think on this subject.

 

[Liar]

I think it's very personal what constitutes good feedback.

Personally, I'm terrible at taking specifics and technicalities about writing to heart and change how I deliver text in accordance. But anything that gives me new perspective on the broader strokes, ideas and intepretation, I feel like I immediately understand and can start processing.

So as an example: Your comment on my latest poem was thus not very helpful. For me. Because it was about how you think (and probably rightly so) I should tighten up the delivery of some stanzas. While I do see the point, I fail at converting it into a lesson learned, and will not know how to approach it the next time I write.

On the other hand, in your comment on my poem before that, there was more a description of what you saw, what moods you read into it, how it felt to you and what message you derived from it. It made me look at my idea from the outside, and made me start to think about how it could be that you saw what you saw, how that narrative, imagery and language could lend itself to your experience as a reader.

I still don't know the answer, but I'm still thinking about it. And that is useful as dammit.

 

[SeattleRain]

Me? I will take anything and appreciate the detail.

But you are right to ask-- if detailed feedback is not wanted, it is a waste of the commenter's time. Maybe those in the 52 challenge can post their preferences on the bottom of their submission-- as they will be getting more feedback than usual.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I am happy to get anything and everything except from those who just tell me it is crap, if it's crap tell me whyyyyyy and with a valid reason apart from the commenter being a snarky pig with an axe to grind!

 

[Angeline]

Thank you both for responding. I think it's really helpful to know what kind of feedback people prefer (like Seattle said). Maybe we should do a poll? (But not now cause I have to go make blueberry pancakes. Yes we are having them for dinner. Blueberry pancakes for dinner are awesome--also I have to fo grocery shopping tomorrow.)

 

[Angeline]

Ok this is weird. I just responded to Liar and Seattle but my post doesn't show. I think maybe Lit has blown a fuse. Manu? Laurel? Will someone go down to the cellar and check?

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I think I'd appreciate some detail, but not lots and lots.
Also depends upon how much I want to revise that poem.

 

[butters]

any feedback i get at all is valuable for me - helps me see through other eyes what my own might have missed. even if i don't agree with suggestions, or am surprised by what others read into what i wrote, it still helps me understand how my own stuff's viewed... and that's pretty important to me when one of my blind spots as a writer is getting others to see just what it is i am seeing in MY own head as i write. just look at 'revelations' as an example - seemed pretty straightforward to me, lol, but clearly it wasn't the case!

it's is equally valuable for me to hear how anything i've written makes someone feel, what it makes them see, as it is to hear the suggestions for technical improvement. either one on their own is great, but a combination of both (doesn't have to be from the same person) works best for my own understanding of areas i might be able to improve on.

all too often i am at a loss to offer any suggestions for betterment, and all i can tell the author is how their write affected me. i think, sometimes, that's the most important part - at least for me.

 

[SeattleRain]

Ok this is weird. I just responded to Liar and Seattle but my post doesn't show. I think maybe Lit has blown a fuse. Manu? Laurel? Will someone go down to the cellar and check?

Liar and I snatched your responses and flew them to Morocco.

 

[bronzeage]

I appreciate any feedback. Poetry feed back is usually more to the point and sometimes is very useful.

Story feedback tends to be more vague, but is more likely to include a pic, so that's a plus.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I think I'd appreciate some detail, but not lots and lots.
Also depends upon how much I want to revise that poem.

Unless it's something glaringly obvious once my poems are out there they are on their own, kicked from the nest!

 

[Angeline]

Thanks again you poets! This is very useful info for me, and will help me refine my commenting.

And I see my posts are back from Morocco. They look a little wobbly and red-eyed to me.

 

[twelveoone]

Bring the thermometer back!
I have mixed feelings about leaving, because if I see what I perceive is a problem on what is otherwise a extraordinary poem, i.e. yours, I am afraid that the less than average reader will take it as a reason that the person deserves less than a 5. And just leave a score. Sometimes I'll wait until the flurry is over.
Bring the thermometer back!
Sometimes comments can be ambiguous.
Bring the thermometer back!
Ang. I've been reading yours with interest, chip, yours too.
Bring the thermometer back!
I detest the freeloaders, oh, I'm a writer attitude. Fuck you dickheads, if these people, who are generally better writers can leave 'em so can you. Not to mention, yours truly, the terror of all things generic... which leads me to another beef...If you don't know what you are looking at, state so, or come back to it. Recent case: fridayam, I spent three days thinking about one of his.
Most famous case (for me): Earlier(2004) I spent 15 minutes thinking Seattle Rain was an idiot, before I discovered what a genius she was.
It is too easy for some of you to fall into the preconceived assumption trap. I detest shoveling things into a stupid form, for the sake of...but I try my hardest not to penalize the writer. They are trying to do what they think is right. And at least the aspect ratio is.

 

[Liar]

I applaud you Angeline if you are really trying to tailor feedback to the writer. Me, and I assume others with me, I'm just happy I come up with anything to say other than "I read this" when I sit here and stare at that demading text box.

The pressure to be insightful or useful or even helpful (not to mention not detested by twelve-o) more often than not mean I have a brain fart and come up with zilch.

There is not always a thought to communicate. If there was, I'd write a poem about it.

 

[twelveoone]

I applaud you Angeline if you are really trying to tailor feedback to the writer. Me, and I assume others with me, I'm just happy I come up with anything to say other than "I read this" when I sit here and stare at that demading text box.

The pressure to be insightful or useful or even helpful (not to mention not detested by twelve-o) more often than not mean I have a brain fart and come up with zilch.

There is not always a thought to communicate. If there was, I'd write a poem about it.

you can read what I said in the other section re: comments.
I've left enuff lame "well I liked it", my shortest was "*"
here's your 100
When you think about it that does say something

I don't like it when you get the way over the top comments from the closed circles. You people are doing a bang up job. I wish I could do more. BTW I left a favorable comment on one of yours, i.e. I wish I would have thought of it. Not too goddamned detailed, but it does say something I hope you find useful. If not, at least I read it. Poetry does not exist in a vacuum. Really does my heart good to see real H's come back, they may not be on who I think should have them, but they are not "family" H's. If you remember a few years back.

 

[Angeline]

I applaud you Angeline if you are really trying to tailor feedback to the writer. Me, and I assume others with me, I'm just happy I come up with anything to say other than "I read this" when I sit here and stare at that demading text box.

The pressure to be insightful or useful or even helpful (not to mention not detested by twelve-o) more often than not mean I have a brain fart and come up with zilch.

There is not always a thought to communicate. If there was, I'd write a poem about it.

Well I'm going to try. Not to harp but my editor background does make me prone to be more blabby and specific than a lot of people. It's not anything intentional it just comes from twenty plus years of critiquing other people's writing. But here I've come to realize (cause I'm a slow learner sometimes) that some people may find the way I comment unhelpful, or worse, offensive. I'm solidly with 1201 (and many of you here) that if one submits a poem, one needs to suck it up and deal with whatever comments are posted. Otoh I'm all about self-improvement, so we'll see how I do.

 

[twelveoone]

Well I'm going to try. Not to harp but my editor background does make me prone to be more blabby and specific than a lot of people. It's not anything intentional it just comes from twenty plus years of critiquing other people's writing. But here I've come to realize (cause I'm a slow learner sometimes) that some people may find the way I comment unhelpful, or worse, offensive. I'm solidly with 1201 (and many of you here) that if one submits a poem, one needs to suck it up and deal with whatever comments are posted. Otoh I'm all about self-improvement, so we'll see how I do.

1. you could try a little less detail for some, leave something for the next commentor.
2. offensive. nah! your's and the chipsters never!

but I'm also with UPS, if it is crap, then with the details, but since with newbs, they're getting 100's I only leave one suggestion. It is a tough balancing act.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

During private discourse another poet wrote in part -

"......people who treat poetry....taking a small truth out of context and stretching it beyond recognition."

This has happened to me several times where someone has seen something totally unintended in my poem. Not only does it please me but helps me see it through fresh eyes. Could it be our subconscious has a hand in the composing?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Bring the thermometer back!
I have mixed feelings about leaving, because if I see what I perceive is a problem on what is otherwise a extraordinary poem, i.e. yours, I am afraid that the less than average reader will take it as a reason that the person deserves less than a 5. And just leave a score. Sometimes I'll wait until the flurry is over.
Bring the thermometer back!
Sometimes comments can be ambiguous.
Bring the thermometer back!
Ang. I've been reading yours with interest, chip, yours too.
Bring the thermometer back!
I detest the freeloaders, oh, I'm a writer attitude. Fuck you dickheads, if these people, who are generally better writers can leave 'em so can you. Not to mention, yours truly, the terror of all things generic... which leads me to another beef...If you don't know what you are looking at, state so, or come back to it. Recent case: fridayam, I spent three days thinking about one of his.
Most famous case (for me): Earlier(2004) I spent 15 minutes thinking Seattle Rain was an idiot, before I discovered what a genius she was.
It is too easy for some of you to fall into the preconceived assumption trap. I detest shoveling things into a stupid form, for the sake of...but I try my hardest not to penalize the writer. They are trying to do what they think is right. And at least the aspect ratio is.

Just because you don't like forms doesn't make them wrong or stupid. Trying to do what they think is right ........ ?

 

[SeattleRain]

I read this



(trying on my bitch suit. It is a little tight.)

I applaud you Angeline if you are really trying to tailor feedback to the writer. Me, and I assume others with me, I'm just happy I come up with anything to say other than "I read this" when I sit here and stare at that demading text box.

The pressure to be insightful or useful or even helpful (not to mention not detested by twelve-o) more often than not mean I have a brain fart and come up with zilch.

There is not always a thought to communicate. If there was, I'd write a poem about it.

 

[SeattleRain]

I used to love sp's comments-- little mini-poem reactions-- five words is perfect in many cases.

I am going to go play with my poem again tonight, try to re-work it. Thanks for the comments!

 

[Angeline]

I used to love sp's comments-- little mini-poem reactions-- five words is perfect in many cases.

I am going to go play with my poem again tonight, try to re-work it. Thanks for the comments!

I forgot about those sp comments; they were beautiful. That man was made of poetry!

I can't imagine you need to do much, if any, more work on that poem. It's really, really good.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Talking about feedback....

....I second SeattleRain's suggestion to Ange in her comment on Jazzsong. It's an audio waiting to happen.

 

[LadyGenevieve]

I appreciate feedback tremendously. Anyone who takes the time and makes an effort to comment on something I write does me an invaluable service. Because I tend to write what I am experiencing in the depths of my being, I don't always see things the way someone else does. I'm too close; and I'm always evolving.

 

[greenmountaineer]

During private discourse another poet wrote in part -

"......people who treat poetry....taking a small truth out of context and stretching it beyond recognition."

This has happened to me several times where someone has seen something totally unintended in my poem. Not only does it please me but helps me see it through fresh eyes. Could it be our subconscious has a hand in the composing?

I think so because when I edit a draft many times, I'll sometimes notice something that was in an earlier draft that remains but didn't come into focus for me until I made other changes to the poem.

That said, I think more often someone will see something in a poem that's indicative of his or her perception than the poet's.