Arizona Blue Dog Dem shot at public event

[Pure]

vm,

hi volup.

i see no evidence he was ever hospitalized.


VM The problem is an unwillingness to seriously seek out the deranged.

that's a tall order and it would be opposed by the right, for sure. how do you 'seek out' persons who've talked to shrinks about killing people?

there are civil liberties issues if you restrict the rights of someone PRIOR to their committing a crime.

indeed, suppose a person posts a fantasy of killing a bunch of gov't officials. there is no law broken, and it would be hard to forbid him firearms.... does he go on a 'dangerous persons' list. our ami has spoken of the desirability of killing certain liberals, does he go on the list?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/judge-john-roll-dead-killed_n_806239.html

Judge John Roll Dead: Killed In Arizona Shooting
First Posted: 01- 8-11 03:59 PM | Updated: 01- 8-11 04:44 PM
What's Your Reaction?


Federal Judge John Roll was killed during a shooting in Arizona that also involved an attack on U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
U.S. Marshal for Arizona David Gonzales confirmed to the Associated Press that the U.S. District Judge had died. He offered no other details on the shooting.

Arizona Central talked to Gonzales in 2009 after Roll allowed a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit to proceed against a local rancher. The case was filed by illegal immigrants and drew the ire of local talk radio hosts, who "spurred audiences into making threats."

In one afternoon, Roll logged more than 200 phone calls. Callers threatened the judge and his family. They posted personal information about Roll online.
"They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,' " Gonzales said.
Both Roll and his wife were given a U.S. Marshals Service protection detail at the time. Roll called the month-long protection experience "unnerving and invasive." According to Arizona Central, authorities identified four men believed to be responsible for the threats, but Roll declined to press charges at the recommendation of the Marshals Service.

loughner videos.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.html

 

[voluptuary_manque]

He was not. However, if the same software that puts people on the no-fly list because of their internet postings were to identify him as a 'person of interest' I see no Constitutional bar to keeping from purchasing a gun. I could be wrong, bein' a bear instead of a shark, but it seems fair to me.

 

[Boxlicker101]

hi volup.

i see no evidence he was ever hospitalized.


VM The problem is an unwillingness to seriously seek out the deranged.

that's a tall order and it would be opposed by the right, for sure. how do you 'seek out' persons who've talked to shrinks about killing people?

there are civil liberties issues if you restrict the rights of someone PRIOR to their committing a crime.

indeed, suppose a person posts a fantasy of killing a bunch of gov't officials. there is no law broken, and it would be hard to forbid him firearms.... does he go on a 'dangerous persons' list. our ami has spoken of the desirability of killing certain liberals, does he go on the list?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/judge-john-roll-dead-killed_n_806239.html

Judge John Roll Dead: Killed In Arizona Shooting
First Posted: 01- 8-11 03:59 PM | Updated: 01- 8-11 04:44 PM
What's Your Reaction?


Federal Judge John Roll was killed during a shooting in Arizona that also involved an attack on U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
U.S. Marshal for Arizona David Gonzales confirmed to the Associated Press that the U.S. District Judge had died. He offered no other details on the shooting.

Arizona Central talked to Gonzales in 2009 after Roll allowed a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit to proceed against a local rancher. The case was filed by illegal immigrants and drew the ire of local talk radio hosts, who "spurred audiences into making threats."

In one afternoon, Roll logged more than 200 phone calls. Callers threatened the judge and his family. They posted personal information about Roll online.
"They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,' " Gonzales said.
Both Roll and his wife were given a U.S. Marshals Service protection detail at the time. Roll called the month-long protection experience "unnerving and invasive." According to Arizona Central, authorities identified four men believed to be responsible for the threats, but Roll declined to press charges at the recommendation of the Marshals Service.

loughner videos.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.html

I note the way Huffington Post is trying to spin this in such a way as to place the blame on those who oppose illegal immigrants. From everything I have read, the congresswoman was the target, and the judge had the bad luck to be there with her.

 

[JackLuis]

Revolutionary screed possibly linked to accused Arizona shooter

Maybe he's not a Repub, just a Tea Party crumpet.

 

[sr71plt]

Sounds like he was a Republican, maybe a Tea Party, Beck follower. Don't blame his psychosis, blame the people that lead him to his actions.

This happened because the Repub's are all loose lipped and spouting crazy shit to get elected.

I don't need to see him as a Republican or Tea bagger either--and no one knows much at this point about where he fits in the political spectrum. What I've seen quoted in the media splashes him all across the political spectrum.

What I mainly see, though, is the type of hate being mongered right here on this thread is what feeds this sort of deranged act.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

What hate? I don't see any hate, any calling for firing squads or concentration camps. I just don't want psychotics owning firearms. If he wants to hunt, let him use a bow or a falcon.

 

[sr71plt]

What hate? I don't see any hate, any calling for firing squads or concentration camps. I just don't want psychotics owning firearms. If he wants to hunt, let him use a bow or a falcon.

Oh, you don't see the politically generated hate floating through this thread? Hmmm. I guess there's just so much of it on this forum that you've become numb to it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by voluptuary_manque
What hate? I don't see any hate, any calling for firing squads or concentration camps. I just don't want psychotics owning firearms. If he wants to hunt, let him use a bow or a falcon.

Oh, you don't see the politically generated hate floating through this thread? Hmmm. I guess there's just so much of it on this forum that you've become numb to it.

I don't think there's all that much. There was the vitriol spewed by Safe Bet against white males, but nothing else comes to mind. Of course, there is also JBJ, but nobody takes him seriously.

I see a certain amount of dislike or disdain,m but not much I would call HATE

 

[sr71plt]

I see a certain amount of dislike or disdain,m but not much I( would call

Oh, I wouldn't expect you to be able to see anything like that.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I see a certain amount of dislike or disdain,m but not much I would call HATE.

Oh, I wouldn't expect you to be able to see anything like that.

Maybe my definition of hate is different from yours. What I call dislike, you probably call hate.

 

[sr71plt]

8 January TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — A gunman unloaded a semiautomatic weapon outside a busy supermarket Saturday during a public gathering for Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing Arizona's chief federal judge and five others in an attempted assassination that left Americans questioning whether divisive politics had pushed the suspect over the edge.

. . .The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it centered in Arizona.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."


My sentiments exactly. And the extremist political views I see expressed on this forum daily (on both sides, but from the lunatic right mostly) are, I think, rich fodder for bringing the crazies out to do this sort of thing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

8 January TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — A gunman unloaded a semiautomatic weapon outside a busy supermarket Saturday during a public gathering for Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing Arizona's chief federal judge and five others in an attempted assassination that left Americans questioning whether divisive politics had pushed the suspect over the edge.

. . .The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it centered in Arizona.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."


My sentiments exactly. And the extremist political views I see expressed on this forum daily (on both sides, but from the lunatic right mostly) are, I think, rich fodder for bringing the crazies out to do this sort of thing.

Do you really believe somebody might read a post on this site and decide to go out and kill somebody?

 

[sr71plt]

Do you really believe somebody might read a post on this site and decide to go out and kill somebody?

Is that really your defense of the political vitrol and hatred reflected and fomented and jammed down our throats here?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Do you really believe somebody might read a post on this site and decide to go out and kill somebody?

Is that really your defense of the political vitrol and hatred reflected and fomented and jammed down our throats here?

No. I'm just asking you to clarify something you said.

 

[sr71plt]

No. I'm just asking you to clarify something you said.

Clarifying something for you doesn't happen.

 

[Pure]

box classics:

great ones, box!

From everything I have read, the congresswoman was the target, and the judge had the bad luck to be there with her.

he'd previously received death threats and been under US marshalls' protection. but maybe it's just 'bad luck', Arizona style if a bullet gets you!

I see a certain amount of dislike or disdain,m but not much I would call HATE

well, listen to the third and last video, when he discusses whether he's a terrorist. He then states that lots of current US laws are unconstitutional and 'treasonous' and that 'revolutionaries' [Obama-types?!] have comprehensively taken away property owners' rights.

The violent conclusion and remedy is implied. I suspect he believes the right wing canard that the banks have been nationalized, and is NOT talking about ordinary homeowers being foreclosed--- for, after all, such a person is living in the BANK's property.


for me, box, simple leftie that i am, when a nut or right winger talks of 'treson' and implies terrible oppression, or maybe even talks of 'reloading', these are ideas and fantasies of violence, if not calls for murder. and, in simple terms, 'hate'.

likewise the 'crosshairs' imagery on some sites, or the well known NRA justaposition of obama's picture and a picture of a rifle, so that the rifle appears pointed at him. it's contemplation, if not urging, to murder.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

for me, box, simple leftie that i am, when a nut or right winger talks of 'killing' or 'eliminating' or maybe even 'reloading', these are ideas and fantasies, if not calls for murder. and, in simple terms, 'hate'.

^^^ this. 100%.

 

[Boota]

I think we'll find out that this is the first of the promised "Second Amendment Remedies" the Teabaggers were so fond of spouting off about. Did anyone really think you can call for such an action that many times and no one is going to do it?

 

[DeeZire]

....

Out of curiosity, why is she described as a "Blue Dog Dem" in the title to this thread? She voted for Obamacare.

She calls herself a Blue Dog Dem. She was on the fence about Obamacare. I went to one of her town hall meetings before the healthcare vote. She mentioned "paygo" several times, the concept that Congress shouldn't pass any program without figuring out a way to pay for it that doesn't add to the national debt. When the CBO came out with their analysis that Obamacare would save 280 billion over ten years, that gave her the green light to vote for it.

She was one of the few Dems who didn't vote for Pelosi for Speaker of the House. She represents a swing district, which can go either way, depending on the political winds. She won the last election by a couple of thousand votes. It took a week of waiting for the final vote count to declare the winner.

When I got her email announcing her "Congress On Your Corner" event, my first thought was security - wondering how they would handle the gun toting Tea Partiers, now that AZ has an open-carry law. What surprises me is the utter silence from the AH gun lobby. Hopefully, this event has made them realize the consequences of advocating "second amendment solutions" to their political gripes.

While driving to my music gig tonight, the news directer of our local NPR station was interviewed. He was 5 minutes away from the shooting when it happened. His wife was inside the Safeway store. She called him, hysterical. He couldn't understand what she was saying, so he raced to the scene, and got inside the police perimeter before they had secured the area. He described seeing the many bodies littering the sidewalk, including Gabrielle Giffords, slumped to the pavement up against the wall, with blood oozing out of her head. She was wearing a red dress. It's this image that the AH gun lobby needs to visualize when they talk about their "second amendment solutions."

 

[Boxlicker101]

great ones, box!

From everything I have read, the congresswoman was the target, and the judge had the bad luck to be there with her.

he'd previously received death threats and been under US marshalls' protection. but maybe it's just 'bad luck', Arizona style if a bullet gets you!

I see a certain amount of dislike or disdain,m but not much I would call HATE

well, listen to the third and last video, when he discusses whether he's a terrorist and mentions killing, iirc. and ridding ourselves of the terrible oppression of the US gov't.

for me, box, simple leftie that i am, when a nut or right winger talks of 'killing' or 'eliminating' or maybe even 'reloading', these are ideas and fantasies, if not calls for murder. and, in simple terms, 'hate'.

likewise the 'crosshairs' imagery on some sites, or the well known NRA justaposition of obama's picture and a picture of a rifle, so that the rifle appears pointed at him. it's contemplation, if not urging, to murder.

I agree with the local AZ sheriff that the congresswoman was the primary target. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

For one thing, she was the first one shot, and I would assume the killer thought the shot to her head would be fatal, so he began firing at others around her, probably at random. For another, her presence at that place at that time was known, while the judge just happened to be there, possibly shopping for groceries.

As for the rest of your post, you apparently did not read much of my post you seem to be citing. In a discussion with the pilot, I said there was DISLIKE OR DISDAIN ON THIS THREAD AND THIS FORUM but not actual hate, and I said nothing about anything anywhere else. There is plenty of hate, coming from all parts of the political spectrum. Since the Dems have been in control of Congress for the last four years, more of it has been directed at them. With the Reps now controlling the House, they will become targets of threats and vandalism also. It's unfortunate, but it's a fact of life.

 

[Pure]

addtional person who 'had bad luck'

Christina Taylor Greene: Arizona Shooting Claims Life Of 9-Year-Old Born On 9/11

First Posted: 01- 9-11 12:29 AM | Updated: 01- 9-11 12:29 AM


Nine-year-old Christina Taylor Greene was among those killed in a tragic shooting in Tucson, Ariz. on Saturday.

The incident occurred at a public event held by U.S. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in her home district. Local NBC affiliate KVOA reports that family members say Christina, who was a student at Mesa Verde Elementary School, went to the event because she wanted to learn more about the world of politics.

The Arizona Republic reports:
A neighbor was going to the Giffords event and invited Christina along because she thought she would enjoy it, said her uncle, Greg Segalini.

Christina had just been elected to the student council at her school. The event, held outside a Safeway supermarket north of Tucson, was an opportunity for constituents to meet Giffords and talk about any concerns they had related to the federal government.

 

[Guest]

*deleted*

 

[DeeZire]

... With the Reps now controlling the House, they will become targets of threats and vandalism also. It's unfortunate, but it's a fact of life.

In this country, years ago, lynching black people was just a "fact of life." If you're content to just shrug off political violence as a "fact of life", I'd suggest you're setting the bar too low. We need to call out those who incite political violence, and move society towards a position that does not tolerate it. How do we go about doing that? Perhaps G G's misfortune will be the first step. We can only hope so.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't need to see him as a Republican or Tea bagger either--and no one knows much at this point about where he fits in the political spectrum. What I've seen quoted in the media splashes him all across the political spectrum.

What I mainly see, though, is the type of hate being mongered right here on this thread is what feeds this sort of deranged act.

Let's see...he dislikes Christians. Does drugs. Owns lotsa leftist books. One of his peers says the guy has very liberal opinions. Gotta be a Tea Bagger.

 

[DeeZire]

Let's see...he dislikes Christians. Does drugs. Owns lotsa leftist books. One of his peers says the guy has very liberal opinions. Gotta be a Tea Bagger.

I was noticing the "currency" issue and correlating it with Glen Beck's gold standard rants. Plus, you've got the libertarian angle and the idea that the government is the enemy. It all points rightward for me.

I'd like so suggest two things:

1. JBJ - in respect for Gabriell Giffords, could you please hold your snark for a little while? This is absolutely heartbreaking for some of us. Gabrielle Gifford is southern Arizona's John Kennedy, if you know what I mean.

2. I Googled "Boycott Hate Speech for Gabby" and came up with nothing. A list of the corporate sponsors of hate speech - right now when it's on everyone's mind - could raise awareness and perhaps start the wheels turning...