"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" REPEALED!

[Dragonlipz]

Heterosexual marriage and family is the glue that keeps our society orderly and expressive of the basic values of America. Destroy these, and the social order begins to deteriorate, as it has with unwanted children, single mother families and the chastizement of 'dead beat' dads who get trapped into a situation when seduced by a female looking for support but who does not want a traditional marriage

amicus

So, Amicoot, how many times have you done the marriage thang? Multilple attempts like yours really help the social fabric.....NOT...
But if you were really into being a good parent instead of living your lame-ass ego trip; perhaps you'd understand what parenthood and more importantly: MARRIAGE is all about.
Children are the best and greatest legacy we can give the world. Something you have yet to learn....
And never will........................Rock on, loser

 

[JackLuis]

In a somewhat lighter vain"

Andy Borowitz, 12.19.2010

Comedian and creator of BorowitzReport.com

Commenting on the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz) said the following: "Today is a very sad day."

Dear John McCain: Dude, we didn't ask you, so don't tell us.

 

[Liar]

"Unit cohesion"

If we accept the premise that some people believe in gay cooties and there's nothing we can do about that...

...what then is more detrimental for unit cohesion:

Knowing who is gay,

or not knowing who is?

 

[Awful Arthur]

AA I would recommend you think before you type. Nether you or I know anything about the poster you just denigrated. One does not have to be in any of the Special Operations forces you mentioned to be a warrior. He could be an army specialist who has just finished his first combat tour in Iraq or Afghanistan. He could be a SSgt. who is getting ready for his 3rd combat tour. He could be a Marine Capt. who has led men in combat and has seen some of them die while he led them. All of them the pointy end of the spear. He could also be an E-3 supply clerk just expressing his opinion. No matter what, you don't know, you owe him an apology.

Since you brought up he subject of special operations the military survey indicated about 58% of special operators and army troops with combat experience, and 60% of Marines said repeal of DADT would be a problem.

25% of all troops said they would reconsider where to stay in the military or retire at the first available time. That could be one hell of a loss of military experience, combat experience, and leadership ability.

Assuming you believe the vote with your feet idea who will volunteer and where will we get them.

Go you believe GLBT people will step up? I sincerely doubt it. Some will of course but, in my opinion, not in near the numbers needed to replace those who leave.

Uh, I think maybe you missed my point justa bit, there, justa. You see, he was talking about the Masculine Warrior Ethos being asked to "accomodate" gays and I was just pointing out that there are units that probably think of him as being a little, well, sissy, who have to "accomodate" him and that they undoubtedly contain some gays. Uh, if that's not too complicated for you, there, justa.

As to who will step up, well they used to say the same bigoted shit in reference to blacks--you know, let one in and there goes the neighborhood. Then who's gonna fight the chinks and gooks.

 

[colddiesel]

When I joined the British Army in the 1950's we (the recruits) were all wet behind the ears. We had heard the expression a 'homo' or 'one of them' but I don't recollect at all the use of 'gay' or even 'queer'

But we soon found out; the drill sergeant told us; possibly the most inclusive man I ever met: in all other respects this malignant Scotsman was a vision of hell to come.

But he told us. Every day, week after week he yelled at the top of his voice, "you useless pansy bastards," "you fuckin shirtlifters," "you pillow bitin' ponces, 'you fuckin asshole reamers,' just a few of his choicer descriptions but he never discriminated between us, we were all the same to him.

Any and every piece of abuse was utilised to one purpose, to make us, all of us into soldiers by the end of Basic Training. And he succeeded.

 

[Liar]

When I joined the British Army in the 1950's we (the recruits) were all wet behind the ears. We had heard the expression a 'homo' or 'one of them' but I don't recollect at all the use of 'gay' or even 'queer'

But we soon found out; the drill sergeant told us; possibly the most inclusive man I ever met: in all other respects this malignant Scotsman was a vision of hell to come.

But he told us. Every day, week after week he yelled at the top of his voice, "you useless pansy bastards," "you fuckin shirtlifters," "you pillow bitin' ponces, 'you fuckin asshole reamers,' just a few of his choicer descriptions but he never discriminated between us, we were all the same to him.

Any and every piece of abuse was utilised to one purpose, to make us, all of us into soldiers by the end of Basic Training. And he succeeded.

And have you reflected over why that did work?

 

[Pure]

note to jbj

pure said: women are occasionally fighter pilots in the US Air Force. In 2008, women were 70 out of 3700. In the article below, on M. McSally, she tells of her role in combat.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123034148

Major Shawna Kimbrell
http://www.174fw.ang.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123099049

jbj replied: Robert E. Lee had females in his army but one two-headed snake doesnt tag the whole species. The best female marathon runner ranks like # 600 on the male list.

=====

Pure replies: i wasn't trying to 'tag the whole species,' but i appreciate your down-home metaphors. i was saying some women have a 'warrior spirit', and if in the armed forces, the warrior ethos, and that's fine.


i think you'll agree that 'tagging the whole species' of males as HAVING warrior spirit, is wildly inaccurate, even if i grant you it applies to 50% of males. that 50% of snakes are brown, in no way allows one to say brown typifies as well as essentially characterizes, snakes.

your marathon example is disanalogous. as the article on McSally states, she's hardly a runner up, as one of the 70 out of 3700. she's clearly in the top echelon in part because being a fighter pilot is not anywhere near as based on physical strength as marathon running is.

further, i think it almost inescapably clear that the 70 female fighter pilots are NOT, by merit/learned-ability, the lowest 70, among the 3700, else women would not continue to be recruited and promoted.

the point here is NOT to typify: if 10% of gay males and 2% of gay females have a warrior spirit and special ability to act it out, and accept military rules and discipline, they deserve a chance to serve: not strutting their orientation, or being esp. concerned with it, but simply *doing the job they are there for.*

 

[Huckleman2000]

All of this BS about "warrior spirit" is really insulting. It perpetuates the idea that gays are somehow less masculine than straights. In my experience, that has not been the case at all. There are a lot of REALLY masculine gay men.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

All of this BS about "warrior spirit" is really insulting. It perpetuates the idea that gays are somehow less masculine than straights. In my experience, that has not been the case at all. There are a lot of REALLY masculine gay men.

Pondoro Taylor, the last professional elephant hunter, comes to mind.

 

[Safe_Bet]

All of this BS about "warrior spirit" is really insulting. It perpetuates the idea that gays are somehow less masculine than straights. In my experience, that has not been the case at all. There are a lot of REALLY masculine gay men.

http://img138.imagevenue.com/loc580/th_80391_200px_Mark_Bingham1_122_580lo.jpg


Nah, you're dead wrong. Gay guys are such 6' 4", 225 pounds, rugby playing, terrorist rushing, wimps...

 

[colddiesel]

And have you reflected over why that did work?

Of course I know why it worked Liar. The objective of basic Training was to take a group of men of very mixed socio/political/ethnic /religious background and turn them into a group with a common ethos of inter reliance.

The quickest way to do that is by appealing to the things they hate or fear. At the time homosexuals and rock spiders(pedophiles) were accepted as the dregs of society so they were the 'most efficient target'.

Nowadays the Taliban probably tells its recruits they and their sisters will be raped by the infidels and I would hazard a guess that western drill sergeants have some unedifying suggestions in response.

It's not pretty Liar and it's not the way to run a civil society but the army is not civil society. What works is what counts.

Taking sexual preference out of the recruitment rules won't change anything; all of them taken as a whole will fight as well as each other; combat units will be just as good as ever.

What will impinge on the forces capacity to fight is the small army of box tickers and thought police trying to dictate to enlisted men how they will think.

PS When I joined up my mother a sweet woman and regular attender at the Presbyterian Kirk was only horrified that I would be sharing barracks with heathen Catholics!! In Glasgow in those days Catholics and the Kirk were like Sunni and Shia.

 

[Stella_Omega]

for fuck's sake, CD. The thing that has to change in their thinking is that gay men and women should be beaten and killed.


I'll police the fuck out of that and not feel one single instant of guilt for it.

 

[wet_special]

for fuck's sake, CD. The thing that has to change in their thinking is that gay men and women should be beaten and killed.

I'll police the fuck out of that and not feel one single instant of guilt for it.

You are tilting at windmills as usual. Victim mentality much?

I rarely heard the word "faggot" used until I went to boot camp. That said, it was used casually, it had very little meaning other than a clear negative connotation.

Recruits constantly watch and listen to their instructors and try to size them up. I can guarantee you a DI would lose credibility and respect in the eyes of the recruits if he said anything resembling "beat faggots up." That had nothing to do with our training or our purpose. You cannot instill honor, courage, commitment, and gay bashing at the same time. I find the notion ludicrous, but just the sort of ignorant misconception a civilian wrapped up in the passionate cause of gay rights might have.

I wonder if the bear will have my back on this one. I know it's been about a half century since she went to basic, maybe it was different back then.

 

[olivias]

I rarely heard the word "faggot" used until I went to boot camp. That said, it was used casually, it had very little meaning other than a clear negative connotation . . .

You cannot instill honor, courage, commitment, and gay bashing at the same time.

I'll bet you don't even realize that you just contradicted yourself. That's how engrained this prejudice is.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You are tilting at windmills as usual. Victim mentality much?

I rarely heard the word "faggot" used until I went to boot camp. That said, it was used casually, it had very little meaning other than a clear negative connotation.

Recruits constantly watch and listen to their instructors and try to size them up. I can guarantee you a DI would lose credibility and respect in the eyes of the recruits if he said anything resembling "beat faggots up." That had nothing to do with our training or our purpose. You cannot instill honor, courage, commitment, and gay bashing at the same time. I find the notion ludicrous, but just the sort of ignorant misconception a civilian wrapped up in the passionate cause of gay rights might have.

I wonder if the bear will have my back on this one. I know it's been about a half century since she went to basic, maybe it was different back then.

I heard and read the term "faggot" used before I went to AF Basic, and that was over a half century ago. It is usually used in plural. Faggots are bundles of sticks and twigs that are used as kindling wood.

I also heard and read "fag." It is a cigaret or an errand boy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You are tilting at windmills as usual. Victim mentality much?

I rarely heard the word "faggot" used until I went to boot camp. That said, it was used casually, it had very little meaning other than a clear negative connotation.

The first time I heard it, it was a signal that rocks and fists were going to come flying our way. That would have been in about 1978. The negative connotation was made very clear. It's the "fighting word" for many homophobes.

You don't have to believe me. It won't change your world one way or another. I'm the one who has sat in emergency rooms with queer friends, though, and I think my experience has some authority that yours has not.

Recruits constantly watch and listen to their instructors and try to size them up. I can guarantee you a DI would lose credibility and respect in the eyes of the recruits if he said anything resembling "beat faggots up." That had nothing to do with our training or our purpose. You cannot instill honor, courage, commitment, and gay bashing at the same time. I find the notion ludicrous, but just the sort of ignorant misconception a civilian wrapped up in the passionate cause of gay rights might have.

I wonder if the bear will have my back on this one. I know it's been about a half century since she went to basic, maybe it was different back then.

Good glad to hear it. Makes you wonder what exactly the hell old John McCain has been going on and on about, doesn't it?

Let me just mention that the last time I remember being gay-bashed was by a handful of young Marines, at Disneyland. They followed us until security asked them to leave. That would have been about 89. I had a year-old baby in my arms, and was in the company of some rock-and-rollers who looked less than masculine, but weren't in female clothing or anything like that.

 

[wet_special]

I'll bet you don't even realize that you just contradicted yourself. That's how engrained this prejudice is.

The word is ingrained.

And while we are on the topic of words, Gay bashing is "beating" up of a gay, right? I mean, that's what I take the term to mean. A heinous and deplorable crime I'm sure we agree.

Perhaps the victim advocacy groups have expanded the meaning of the term to include voicing an unkind, incorrect, or outdated thought regarding gays. In that way they continue to have something to rail against and demand justice for.

Saying faggot is just using a bad word. Just like when someone says, for instance, bike helmets are "completely gay." or my professor is "retarded." Sticks and stones. Life isn't fair, some people are born different. But if you're born in America maybe someone has told you that we have this thing called the first amendment, and THAT means someone might freely say something you don't like.

SUCK IT UP.

 

[wet_special]

Let me just mention that the last time I remember being gay-bashed was by a handful of young Marines, at Disneyland. They followed us until security asked them to leave. That would have been about 89. I had a year-old baby in my arms, and was in the company of some rock-and-rollers who looked less than masculine, but weren't in female clothing or anything like that.

That's a terrible experience. I'm sorry. You know, I've been picked on for being different too, back when I was different. I had long hair and sometimes I used to paint my nails and wear funky clothing, metallic belts, leather pants. I'm glad I never got bashed, but now that I think back on this.. once, somebody in a car coming out of a parking lot acted like they were gonna run me over with their car. Could have been anyone.

It's out there, the fear and hate.. I just don't like the way we're conflating military training with gay bashing. It isn't like that now.

Man it's late.. Gnight Stella.

 

[sr71plt]

The word is ingrained.

And while we are on the topic of words, Gay bashing is "beating" up of a gay, right? I mean, that's what I take the term to mean. A heinous and deplorable crime I'm sure we agree.

Perhaps the victim advocacy groups have expanded the meaning of the term to include voicing an unkind, incorrect, or outdated thought regarding gays. In that way they continue to have something to rail against and demand justice for.

Saying faggot is just using a bad word. Just like when someone says, for instance, bike helmets are "completely gay." or my professor is "retarded." Sticks and stones. Life isn't fair, some people are born different. But if you're born in America maybe someone has told you that we have this thing called the first amendment, and THAT means someone might freely say something you don't like.

SUCK IT UP.

Wow, you really are revealing yourself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The word is ingrained.

And while we are on the topic of words, Gay bashing is "beating" up of a gay, right? I mean, that's what I take the term to mean. A heinous and deplorable crime I'm sure we agree.

Perhaps the victim advocacy groups have expanded the meaning of the term to include voicing an unkind, incorrect, or outdated thought regarding gays. In that way they continue to have something to rail against and demand justice for.

Yes, insulting a group of people is considered bashing, working to make sure that group of people have fewer rights than you do is bashing, and when the insults reflect the lack of rights of that group, they are not just insults. When the insults presage the beating up they are not just insults. When the insults could lead to a beating and you don't know which time they will and which time they wont- trust me, you do NOT want to hear those insults, and you just might start hitting first after awhile.

Saying faggot is just using a bad word. Just like when someone says, for instance, bike helmets are "completely gay." or my professor is "retarded." Sticks and stones. Life isn't fair, some people are born different.

Why is "faggot" a bad word? What makes you think its okay to call something "completely gay" and have that designate something bad-- when for many of us, it's who we are? Stop using the words that way. Seriously. If you want to call something "awful" say "awful." Not "gay."

But if you're born in America maybe someone has told you that we have this thing called the first amendment, and THAT means someone might freely say something you don't like.

And I will, equally freely, say that I don't like it. The First amendment doesn't mean you get applause for every thing you say.

SUCK IT UP.

FUCK NO. I don't want to suck it up. I think I'll let you do the sucking instead.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

When I joined the British Army in the 1950's we (the recruits) were all wet behind the ears. We had heard the expression a 'homo' or 'one of them' but I don't recollect at all the use of 'gay' or even 'queer'

But we soon found out; the drill sergeant told us; possibly the most inclusive man I ever met: in all other respects this malignant Scotsman was a vision of hell to come.

But he told us. Every day, week after week he yelled at the top of his voice, "you useless pansy bastards," "you fuckin shirtlifters," "you pillow bitin' ponces, 'you fuckin asshole reamers,' just a few of his choicer descriptions but he never discriminated between us, we were all the same to him.

Any and every piece of abuse was utilised to one purpose, to make us, all of us into soldiers by the end of Basic Training. And he succeeded.

ah, the powers that be have sucked all the fun to be had out of being a recruit instructor these days.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Wow, you really are revealing yourself.

Dear Reader. No! It isnt your imagination. PILOT really does come across as a bad english translation of a korean lawnmower repair manual.

 

[wet_special]

Why is "faggot" a bad word? What makes you think its okay to call something "completely gay" and have that designate something bad-- when for many of us, it's who we are? Stop using the words that way. Seriously. If you want to call something "awful" say "awful." Not "gay."

You say X, I say Y. It's freedom. You may be right that it's a very poor choice of words, but if I can't say the word "Gay" in the way I want, I can't say it at all.

If you want to be a speech nanny, there's problems with that too. Sure, it's a waste of time. But it's also unprincipled.

The First Amendment was intended to allow free people to think and act without the burden of whiners like you utilizing our government to have your way. I don't take that freedom for granted. I want my children to enjoy that freedom and the mild odor that goes with it. What's more, I took an oath to defend the constitution. You know, freedom isn't free and so on.

I just think that you should get your mind right on the First Amendment as well. Just a suggestion. Hey, you ever heard of Tammy Bruce? Ever read her book, The New Thought Police?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/F.a.-Hayek/1/index.html
CHRISTMAS PRESENT FOR OUR USUAL SUSPECTS (WHO MAKE THE YULETIDE GAY).

 

[TxRad]

By ardently defending what we hold dear, we become what we....

I hate it when the old brain cells won't give up the word I need.