PYL knows best?

[Keroin]

Let me vent a pet peeve then ask a question.

I often notice posts, in this forum and the talk forum, where a pyl will enthuse or lovingly comment on how much they are learning from their PYL, how the PYL is helping them to become a better person, guiding them, training them, etc, etc. What I find interesting is that I so rarely read the same type of sentiment in reverse – a PYL expressing their excitement or happiness over all that they have learned from their pyl.

Perhaps it’s simply the case that pyls are more publicly emotive or expressive? I don’t know. But, for me, it suggests the idea of the poor, helpless pyl who needs someone wiser and stronger to guide her/him (usually her though, if I am honest). And that bugs me.

Just because I like my man alpha and unafraid to be the boss, doesn’t mean I don’t also have an equal amount of wisdom and experience to offer him. It doesn’t mean I won’t sometimes guide him or that I might be more objective, in a given situation, regarding what’s best for him.

I was thinking about this recently because I went out and bought a fitness center pass for L. He’s not a big gym person, I know, but there’s a pool, sauna, hot tub, etc, too. The reason I did this was because we are stuck here this winter, it is dark by 4pm, it’s cold and snowy outside, his knees are pooched so he can’t play squash anymore, we can’t afford ski gear and lift passes yet, so he is basically house bound – and it’s affecting his mood and spirit in a bad way. I knew he would never go buy a gym pass. I knew if I told him I was buying one for him he would tell me not to bother. So I just bought it and gave it to him and dragged him out with me.

He grouched and grumbled.

Last night, on the way home, after he’d put in 30 minutes on the treadmill while watching some documentary on the TV there, followed by a swim with me and a relaxing hot tub, he looked at me, clearly refreshed and happy and said, “Thanks for doing this. You really are the best girl in the world.”

And though I know that I am not the best girl in the world, it felt really great to help bust him out of the winter blahs.

Sometimes he knows best and sometimes I do. That’s the beauty of having a partner in life, that you can lend each other your strengths and wisdom and both come out better people.

So, I’m curious to hear from pyls: What does your pyl learn from you? How do you guide them? In what ways have you helped them grow?

And PYLs, please feel free to talk about how your pyl, past or present, has done the above for you.

 

[where]

he's learned to care for his feet. He's also understanding that I support him emotionally and I also make him think because I challenge views quite a lot.

yes, I'm as big a gobshite in person as I am here

 

[Keroin]

he's learned to care for his feet.

Interesting.

 

[where]

Interesting.

not the hoped for response?

we'd be stuffed without our feet. they are important!

He says I give him a focus in life. I think that's good, right?

 

[Keroin]

not the hoped for response?

we'd be stuffed without our feet. they are important!

He says I give him a focus in life. I think that's good, right?

Oh no, I love unexpected responses!I really just found your response interesting. I could say the same for L's teeth, BTW. I am a bit OCD about caring for the fangs and I know I've influenced him heavily in that area. (And by "influenced" I mean "nagged")

And I like focus, BTW.

 

[seela]

I've taught him to succumb to the fact that he's human and as one, he sometimes needs to see the doctor. When we first met, he had been having a lot of pain on his foot for almost two weeks that made walking very difficult. I made him go see a doctor and it turned out there was a huge piece of glass buried in his sole. How he missed that in the first place is beyond me.

Three years ago he had, unbeknowst to me because I was abroad, high fever and breathing problems, but didn't bother seeing the doctor, because hey, it's just fever. Luckily it happened towards the end of my trip and when I got home, I made him see the doctor. Turned out it was pneumonia.

But after these years of gentle coaxing and (not so gentle) nagging he now manages to make doctor's appointments, when he needs to. My next goal is to make him not prolong making the call.

 

[Keroin]

I've taught him to succumb to the fact that he's human and as one, he sometimes needs to see the doctor. When we first met, he had been having a lot of pain on his foot for almost two weeks that made walking very difficult. I made him go see a doctor and it turned out there was a huge piece of glass buried in his sole. How he missed that in the first place is beyond me.

Three years ago he had, unbeknowst to me because I was abroad, high fever and breathing problems, but didn't bother seeing the doctor, because hey, it's just fever. Luckily it happened towards the end of my trip and when I got home, I made him see the doctor. Turned out it was pneumonia.

But after these years of gentle coaxing and (not so gentle) nagging he now manages to make doctor's appointments, when he needs to. My next goal is to make him not prolong making the call.

Oh blurg, I have one of those too. Unless a limb is severed, he just prefers to let things fix themselves.

 

[midwestyankee]

Oh blurg, I have one of those too. Unless a limb is severed, he just prefers to let things fix themselves.

And self-surgery is an option, too, for the self-reliant types. A good anatomy book, a couple of youtube demo videos, some sharp instruments and off you go. Put that finger back in place and then clean up the table saw.

 

[seela]

And self-surgery is an option, too, for the self-reliant types. A good anatomy book, a couple of youtube demo videos, some sharp instruments and off you go. Put that finger back in place and then clean up the table saw.

Sadly, what you describe isn't as far fetched as it first seems...
But it's all in the past now. Hopefully.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not sure I belong here, 'cause we've got more of a PyLpYl thing going. There are fewer definitions of who gets to do what. It comes more down to...who cares the most and who gets the best results.

Seems like in a PYL and pyl thing, there's an idealized relationship and as usual, the PYL isn't really going to want to be portrayed or seen as weak in anything, thus making the interest in disclosing said weaknesses or having them exposed. Also, a pyl isn't really going to want to dominate or "in your face!" anything, and will be more willing to display weaknesses and likes having them exposed.

In my relationship, I suck at some stuff...physical universe things...he can fix anything, he can make anything. He sucks at some stuff. He'd never pay an electricity bill until the power is gone and now the only thing he can do is pay it 'cause he forgot otherwise. He has the memory of a goldfish. He inspires me to be more engaged in the world and he makes it seem all awesome and cool-like. He says I give him purpose and meaning to his life and I appreciate him for who he is.

We both get the "get out of crazy free" tickets from each other. We both have idiosyncracies that are indulged. I make sure all cabinet doors are closed and that the toilet paper hangs down because it makes him crazy if it isn't. He tries to make sure to push chairs back under the table 'cause it makes me crazy if they're not. We trade off on things like that, and make each other seem normal in comparison to when we're out and about and we get the rolly-eyed "what the fuck is that about" thing from other people.

So we both display weaknesses and strengths to the best of our ability and defer to each other where necessary to get the best results.

But mostly...HI KEROIN!

 

[Keroin]

And self-surgery is an option, too, for the self-reliant types. A good anatomy book, a couple of youtube demo videos, some sharp instruments and off you go. Put that finger back in place and then clean up the table saw.

Please don't go giving him ideas, Yanks.

 

[midwestyankee]

Please don't go giving him ideas, Yanks.

If he's like me, he doesn't need my help seeing this as a viable option to seeing the sawbones.

 

[Keroin]

I'm not sure I belong here...

You will always belong in any of my threads.

But mostly...HI KEROIN!

HI RECIDIVA!!!

(Loved your response, BTW)

 

[Keroin]

If he's like me, he doesn't need my help seeing this as a viable option to seeing the sawbones.

Side story...

When we were on The Rock, we went snorkeling at a remote motu one day and L was bitten on the foot by a large centipede that was lurking inside his wetsuit booty. Centipedes there are...NASTY, and their bites, (though not fatal, as I now know), are really fricken painful.

Later that day he told me, "That was so weird, everything started to go numb up my leg, right up to my groin, while I was snorkelling. I didn't know if it was going to stop. I thought maybe I was going to die."

Me: "And you didn't tell me??!"

L: "Well, I figured there wasn't anything you could do and at least I would die doing something I loved."

 

[Recidiva]

You will always belong in any of my threads.



HI RECIDIVA!!!

(Loved your response, BTW)

Yay! Okay. This is really the only relationship of mine that has ever really worked out long term. What amazes me over time is that whenever there's a problem, we both tend to jump into the fray and take the blame and have each other's back. I'm used to this at the BEGINNING of a relationship, but usually there's always been a point where I'm the only one jumping and fraying and someone else is letting me handle it on my own. At which point I get to think if I'm doing it all alone anyway, what do I need them for?

We need each other because we make each other's lives richer and open up new worlds we would never have the key to on our own.

He's got "A Beautiful Mind" thing going where I just can't see the world the way he does. He's got some blindnesses to the inner world that I can escort him through safely.

I think for us the separation of duties and powers comes from being so distinctly talented in opposite directions that there's very little overlap. I either suck at something or excel, and he does the same, though in complementary fashion.

 

[midwestyankee]

Side story...

When we were on The Rock, we went snorkeling at a remote motu one day and L was bitten on the foot by a large centipede that was lurking inside his wetsuit booty. Centipedes there are...NASTY, and their bites, (though not fatal, as I now know), are really fricken painful.

Later that day he told me, "That was so weird, everything started to go numb up my leg, right up to my groin, while I was snorkelling. I didn't know if it was going to stop. I thought maybe I was going to die."

Me: "And you didn't tell me??!"

L: "Well, I figured there wasn't anything you could do and at least I would die doing something I loved."

Makes sense to me.

 

[intothewoods]

There was totally a thread on this - or an exhange somewhere around here - about PYLs being mentored by pyls. I guess that's more bdsm specific but the sentiment has been expressed!

The whole PYL as teacher/guide thing has never been part of our dynamic. So, I don't have a whole lot to give you here, but then again, I'm not one to really post how my PYL has guided me in life either. I would say that we both are very supportive of each other's dreams and non-traditional desires (like quitting your job and joining the circus kind of thing, no not literally), and we both strive to improve our relationship skills -- we're really invested. I love that.

So anyway, what have I helped him learn? Probably nutrition. I'm sort of a nag about that, and feel guilty about it, but recently of his own accord he decided enough was enough, and he's totally turned over a new leaf. I mean, it's been a long slow change, but recently he seemed to really get it at a deeper level (like not just replacing one processed food with another marginally more healthy processed food), and I'm so happy. I just want him to be around, and his commitment to this for our family is really awesome. Now I'm going to cry.

I was going to mention another area but there's less of a happy ending there and more just, wow, I'm a terrible naggy bitch. I don't know, he likes to joke that we're from different sides of the track, but I'm hardly Muffy Vanderbilt or [insert other richy wasp name here]. He's such a smart guy and largely self-taught and motivated to learn. I just don't want people to judge him if he uses "good" and "well" incorrectly. But I know part of that is my own insecurity and I'm letting it go. I mean, if my friends or family want to write him off for that, that's their problem.

 

[Keroin]

There was totally a thread on this - or an exhange somewhere around here - about PYLs being mentored by pyls. I guess that's more bdsm specific but the sentiment has been expressed!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

So anyway, what have I helped him learn? Probably nutrition. I'm sort of a nag about that, and feel guilty about it, but recently of his own accord he decided enough was enough, and he's totally turned over a new leaf. I mean, it's been a long slow change, but recently he seemed to really get it at a deeper level (like not just replacing one processed food with another marginally more healthy processed food), and I'm so happy. I just want him to be around, and his commitment to this for our family is really awesome. Now I'm going to cry.

That's very cool.

I was going to mention another area but there's less of a happy ending there and more just, wow, I'm a terrible naggy bitch. I don't know, he likes to joke that we're from different sides of the track, but I'm hardly Muffy Vanderbilt or [insert other richy wasp name here]. He's such a smart guy and largely self-taught and motivated to learn. I just don't want people to judge him if he says "good" instead of "well." But I know part of that is my own insecurity and I'm letting it go. I mean, if my friends or family want to write him off for that, that's their problem.

I get this. Very much. L is much the same and I feel the same sense of protectiveness regarding the opinions of others. It's hard to let go of sometimes. I have very painful memories of an argument between him and this woman (*spits on floor angrily*) about overfishing and salmon farming. L grew up on Vancouver Island, he LIVED salmon fishing in every way possible, he saw first hand what happened to our once teeming waters, he knows well what a menace salmon farms are. But this...woman...was Miss Academic, to the core, and she kept hammering on him with studies and statistics and language L didn't fully comprehend (but I did). And she mocked him, in a way that was too subtle for him to pick up on (but I did), through the whole exchange. I wanted to rip her throat out, I was so angry.

Funny, it didn't bother him. He knew he was right and he didn't give a shit about her attitude. My anger was mine, I had to let it go. (Not easy).

 

[Recidiva]

Funny, it didn't bother him. He knew he was right and he didn't give a shit about her attitude. My anger was mine, I had to let it go. (Not easy).

I have this. My husband can usually laugh something off or dismiss a person, and I can't. I just can't. I can't watch movies or listen to radio where someone's being hit or hurt, I have to leave the room. I just can't be him in this way. I get passionately attached and that's the end to it. He laughs if someone gets kicked in the balls, I cringe and feel it myself. I think they call this "mirror-touch synesthesia" where a person empathizes so much with something happening that they experience physical or mental discomfort to the extent that their brain tells them it's really happening to them. My brain never lets me sit back and not feel it all. I have to remember, it's not that he's a heartless asshole, it's that his brain lets him stand outside of something while mine always tosses me right into the ring.

I think the one time I really failed to empathize in my relationship is over years, he smoked, and ultimately I couldn't tolerate it. I was appalled at myself because I believe in freedom of choice and I believe it was his choice and I was okay with it. And in the end, I wasn't. I really wasn't and it was a breaking point for me. He quit. I don't know what would have happened if he didn't. I didn't give any ultimatums, I was just incredibly torn and I'm grateful he chose to quit for my sake. Years later it worked out to his benefit, but I know that's one thing he did against his will, solely for me. I don't think I've had to make that same sacrifice against the grain for him.

 

[teknight]

Side story...

When we were on The Rock, we went snorkeling at a remote motu one day and L was bitten on the foot by a large centipede that was lurking inside his wetsuit booty. Centipedes there are...NASTY, and their bites, (though not fatal, as I now know), are really fricken painful.

Later that day he told me, "That was so weird, everything started to go numb up my leg, right up to my groin, while I was snorkelling. I didn't know if it was going to stop. I thought maybe I was going to die."

Me: "And you didn't tell me??!"

L: "Well, I figured there wasn't anything you could do and at least I would die doing something I loved."

Is it horrible of me if I LedOL?

 

[EsotericSub]

In any romantic relationship, I think it's important for both partners to learn from each other. I think some people consider it more... I dunno, traditional(?) for the PYL to be seen as sort of a mentor, helping the pyl to become a better person, but really it goes both ways. I like to assume that it's just that the pyl is more expressive about it, as Keroin suggested. Personally, no matter how loving and caring my partner was, and how much I'd learned and grown from being with him, I would feel useless if I wasn't helping him too. I don't care how confident and self-assured he is, we're all human and we all need help sometimes. I see it as my job to help him to learn and to grow just as much as he may help me.

We all have room for improvement, and we all get thrown into situations where someone else has to help us learn how to get through it. The PYL should never be expected to be responsible for teaching and mentoring the pyl without them offering the same in return. They may teach each other in different ways, but no relationship survives without a certain amount of give and take.

 

[Keroin]

I think the one time I really failed to empathize in my relationship is over years, he smoked, and ultimately I couldn't tolerate it. I was appalled at myself because I believe in freedom of choice and I believe it was his choice and I was okay with it. And in the end, I wasn't. I really wasn't and it was a breaking point for me. He quit. I don't know what would have happened if he didn't. I didn't give any ultimatums, I was just incredibly torn and I'm grateful he chose to quit for my sake. Years later it worked out to his benefit, but I know that's one thing he did against his will, solely for me. I don't think I've had to make that same sacrifice against the grain for him.

I would have done the same. Cigarettes are as bad as heroin or coke, IMO. I wouldn't feel a tinge of guilt about nagging my SO to quit. Hey the cigarette companies put a lot of time and money into getting him hooked and taking away his free will, you were actually just giving it back to him.

Is it horrible of me if I LedOL?

Nope, I did the same...right after I punched him.

 

[teknight]

Nope, I did the same...right after I punched him.

That's great use of psych right there. The pain from the punch would take his mind off the other pain.

 

[Recidiva]

I would have done the same. Cigarettes are as bad as heroin or coke, IMO. I wouldn't feel a tinge of guilt about nagging my SO to quit. Hey the cigarette companies put a lot of time and money into getting him hooked and taking away his free will, you were actually just giving it back to him.

I didn't think I was "that person." But apparently I am. I just didn't know it yet. I'm big on free will. But eventually my own free will kicked in and it was strong with the force. Sometimes reality trumps idealistic theory, despite my intellectual objections.

I've learned a bit about myself along the way. There were other things. My son is autistic, and at first I got hell about not disciplining him and allowing him to run loose and take advantage of me. I just KNEW there was something wrong though, and I stuck to my guns, but he had his own guns. He thought I was doing the wrong thing, but again, he let me have my head (not without grumbling, though) on the subject because I was passionate about it.

On the other hand, I've never driven or asked to drive for what...15 years now...because he likes to be the driver.

 

[KoPilot]

In public, S has a very specific game face that he transitions into (it's not a facade, but it's... a very "I have my wits about me" thing), but when it's just him and I, he almost turns into a little kid. And as such, I have to play nanny sometimes. I really don't mind; gives me an excuse to baby him and make him feel guilty about not eating veggies.

But as for the little kid thing? When it's just the two of us, he gushes. A LOT. About how I've made him a better and more confident person, improved his quality of life... though one of the things that I know I've done that he hasn't ever said is that I've directly and indirectly gotten him to stop with self-destructive behaviors like smoking and drinking himself into oblivion, among other things.

As for me, well... I could go on for paragraphs about all of the wonderful things he's done for/to me since becoming friends with him, but that's for another topic~