epigenetics

[Stella_Omega]

Firstly, congratulations to YourCaptor!

Epigenetics is gonna be where the real moneys at though. Instead of messing with DNA structure, just turn genes on or off. Say the ladies don’t want fat deposits in specific areas, turn em off, and if they want green eyes and have that gene in them but it’s off, turn it on. You could even pick if you want to be petite or Mr. Olympia, since those traits can often result from environmental factors in childhood.

You would see changes to the body similar to how hormones change the body, kids morph into adults, steroids allow more muscle growth, estrogen prepares a women for pregnancy, etc.

This also involves less ethical problems because everything would still come from you. In order to express it, you need to have it in you. You just get to pick what you want expressed instead of leaving it up to the crazy chaos that is nature. More power to the people. You could also mandate some stuff, like optimizing intelligence for every person, and turning off faulty genes to stop a genetic disease from plaguing the patient.

You can make every person the best they can be with what they have.

Wow, are you saying that we can do this after gestation???

 

[where]

You could even pick if you want to be petite or Mr. Olympia, since those traits can often result from environmental factors in childhood.

if it's environmental how can fucking about with your genes alter it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

if it's environmental how can fucking about with your genes alter it?

The changes are brought about by genetic responses to environmental stimuli-- a gene gets turned off or on while the child is growing, and that affects the way it grows afterwards.

The trick would be to know when and how influence those on/off switches. Most of those on/offs happen in the womb-- some things can be influenced after the child is born, like enhanced muscle growth and tone if the child is encouraged to walk all day instead of being strollered. Babies raised in cold climates develop more "brown fat" cells, which last all their lives and help them stay warm when us tropical-raised kids are shivering like waifs. And children grow longer bones with a high-protein diet.

But even so, it seems to me that those responses are still limited by the genetic makeup, and by the expression of those genes that was created before birth.

 

[teknight]

This might shed a bit more light on the topic.

The byline is :Epigenetics, DNA, how you can change your genes, destiny.

 

[where]

OK, I'll have to read this later cause I'm a bit brahms right now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This might shed a bit more light on the topic.

The byline is :Epigenetics, DNA, how you can change your genes, destiny.

Well what it really talks about is how you can change the destiny of your children, by way of how you do things at certain times in your life.

Don't start smoking until after puberty, guys! Your sons will grow up thinner, on the average.

But YourCaptor implied that we could switch genes on and off later in life-- after growth? and have them affect our bodies in material ways.

 

[teknight]

Well what it really talks about is how you can change the destiny of your children, by way of how you do things at certain times in your life.

Don't start smoking until after puberty, guys! Your sons will grow up thinner, on the average.

But YourCaptor implied that we could switch genes on and off later in life-- after growth? and have them affect our bodies in material ways.

Really, really short version- everything's interconnected.

Can't wait until this makes into mainstream medicine...in about...10-15 years? It has to gain acceptance and be taught in med schools....

 

[hoodooman]

androgenous

I've been reading about science break throughs and the information is awe inspiring indeed...

We have already begun to morph into a hybrid human/animal/machine creature never before seen. I'd like to be more androgynous if I had it to do over...it's too late now.

I watched Avatar...I want to do those blue folk....I know they did it with their tails but I hope I get to see an x rated version...maybe they suck a person totally inside them and then you're re-born with whatever qualities you want...

It's snowy cold here and has been for a month...you can see my mind is deteriorating

 

[where]

I've been reading about science break throughs and the information is awe inspiring indeed...

We have already begun to morph into a hybrid human/animal/machine creature never before seen. I'd like to be more androgynous if I had it to do over...it's too late now.

I watched Avatar...I want to do those blue folk....I know they did it with their tails but I hope I get to see an x rated version...maybe they suck a person totally inside them and then you're re-born with whatever qualities you want...

It's snowy cold here and has been for a month...you can see my mind is deteriorating

dude, step away from the water pipe.

 

[lovebound]

dude, step away from the water pipe.

lmao.

 

[Stella_Omega]

dude, step away from the water pipe.

And let the rest of us have a turn.

I want androgyny too! Or maybe polygenders. Or possibly the term would be ambigenders...

 

[where]

And let the rest of us have a turn.

I want androgyny too! Or maybe polygenders. Or possibly the term would be ambigenders...

polygender. I like that. fuck, I'm crawling the walls for some decent sex.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

The last thing I want is epigenetics to become anything but a medical treatment. The consequences of it becoming the next big "I'm not good enough" surgery are not consequences I want to see in our world. And what right does ANY person have to decide what someone should be, even a parent?

Yes, it has the potential for great gains...but what those gains are and what should be done with epigenetics is entirely subjective!! Can you imagine what Hitler or any other "racial purist" dictator in history would have done with epigentics??

The consequences are so...ominous that I'm really just not comfortable with epigentics at all :/

 

[teknight]

And let the rest of us have a turn.

I want androgyny too! Or maybe polygenders. Or possibly the term would be ambigenders...

polygender. I like that. fuck, I'm crawling the walls for some decent sex.

Are we talking futanari, or what?

 

[Stella_Omega]

The last thing I want is epigenetics to become anything but a medical treatment. The consequences of it becoming the next big "I'm not good enough" surgery are not consequences I want to see in our world. And what right does ANY person have to decide what someone should be, even a parent?

Yes, it has the potential for great gains...but what those gains are and what should be done with epigenetics is entirely subjective!! Can you imagine what Hitler or any other "racial purist" dictator in history would have done with epigentics??

The consequences are so...ominous that I'm really just not comfortable with epigentics at all :/

I'm not sure what a "racial purist" could do with epigenetics, really. It doesn't change your genetic makeup.

 

[KoPilot]

The last thing I want is epigenetics to become anything but a medical treatment. The consequences of it becoming the next big "I'm not good enough" surgery are not consequences I want to see in our world. And what right does ANY person have to decide what someone should be, even a parent?

Or, god forbid, "my child isn't good enough".

(Anyways, I like Cameron's blue monkey cats because they're 10 feet tall. :B)

 

[Primalex]

But YourCaptor implied that we could switch genes on and off later in life-- after growth? and have them affect our bodies in material ways.

Actually what happens is that certain sequences of the gene won't get copied when a cell divides. So the next cell has a slightly different gene sequence. And this "skip marker" can be enabled by environmental effects.

So you can't switch anything on or add something or exchange something, but you can remove something.

 

[YourCaptor]

Epigenetics should be able to alter traits later in life. In gestation it’s more about forming a person, as opposed to a tube, or preventing having a finger instead of a nose, or something asymmetrical, as well as activating everything in right sequence and stuff. Yea it’s hugely important, but there’s no reason to think gene expression can change later in life. And it does naturally, think of puberty, that’s like changing into a totally different creature.

The key here is to remember that the vast majority of cells in your body contain all the same DNA, the only difference between your breast cells and your lip cells is that they express different DNA, all the rest is turned off. You also have multiple genes for single traits, but only one of which is on. To change eye color for instance you need to introduce the proper chemicals mix that influence gene expression in such a way as to allow a different color to be expressed. Then you just wait for the cells to replicate and replace all the old ones and boom, different eye color.

The main idea here is that you’re not changing DNA, usually you simply cause chromosomes to flex a bit which makes some genes unavailable and other available. To give a simple analogy, say you have a rope that represents DNA and it has a knot in it, the code in the knot cannot be red. So all you do is untie it, and tie new knots on all the stuff you don’t want expressed.

Theoretically many changes should be possible well into adulthood. I mean look at women, they undergo exactly these types of changes twice monthly. That’s pretty quick. Some things may not be possible however, such as changing your sex. In early development many of the things required to be the opposite sex atrophy away, so that’s not a simple case of just switching genes. And even if you could, only males could turn into women, but women could not become males due to the x y chromosome thing.

My favorite potential for epigenetics. Turning all the dinosaur genes in birds back on.

And them furry kids may create ethical issues here, cause our DNA does still contain lots of the genes from our distant ancestors, such as pre bipedalism, little opossum like creature genetics. Those genes just never get turned on.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I'm not sure what a "racial purist" could do with epigenetics, really. It doesn't change your genetic makeup.

It wouldn't, really...but you could do things like make everyone fair skinned (by turning off melanin production in skin), or certain hair/eye colors that only require similar actions. You could make all sorts of small adjustments to people, just to make them closer resemble your "ideal"

Hmm. One nice benefit is that you could make everyone an O- blood type.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Or, god forbid, "my child isn't good enough".

(Anyways, I like Cameron's blue monkey cats because they're 10 feet tall. :B)

*shudders* That one really scares me.

 

[teknight]

Hmm. One nice benefit is that you could make everyone an O- blood type.

So everyone can donate and accept everyone else's blood. However, might there not be other reasons why there are different blood types? Isn't it possible that it serves as protection against some sort of disease- so that it won't spread to the entire population? I mean, surely we didn't evolve to donate blood?!


I'm more curious about the "how"- short of sci-fi's nanomachines...how can we effectively make these changes, on a wide scale?

 

[bhndblueyes88]

So everyone can donate and accept everyone else's blood. However, might there not be other reasons why there are different blood types? Isn't it possible that it serves as protection against some sort of disease- so that it won't spread to the entire population? I mean, surely we didn't evolve to donate blood?!

I don't really know the exact purposes of the different proteins on the blood's surface. They may not serve as anything. You still couldn't be 100% sure all blood would transfer without reaction. After all, ABO type and Rh type are only the two biggest reactants, but any little protein difference could potentially trigger a reaction. It would, however, decrease the cross reactions. But yah, it may have extended disease implications. I don't know.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

This thread is totally creepy, given that I read Michael Crichton's Next over the weekend.

As a book itself, it was averageish, but some of the concepts are spooky, like the whole 'claiming ownership a cell line and therefore the rest of the cells, even if they're inside a person still' stuff, and the 'compulsory genetic screening for health insurance and getting denied because you have a gene that might possibly predispose you to heart disease etc' bits.

Anyways.

It, and the comments about racial purity, also made me think of something else I read. More fiction, but then, if someone can think it up for a book, you have to wonder if someone can think it up for practical implications, but it was a bioweapon. A virus. One made by the Chinese, that could target both black and white people because of the pigmentation genes that both races had and expressed differently, but people of Asian extraction lacked entirely.

 

[YourCaptor]

Yes, it has the potential for great gains...but what those gains are and what should be done with epigenetics is entirely subjective!! Can you imagine what Hitler or any other "racial purist" dictator in history would have done with epigentics??

Wouldn't this undermined the whole inferiority theory? If blacks could suddenly turn white, no other change, wouldn't that be the racists worst nightmare?

I'm more curious about the "how"- short of sci-fi's nanomachines...how can we effectively make these changes, on a wide scale?

No nano machines, in short you methylate the DNA strand in the proper way necessary. All the required tools are already their, we just need to learn how to use them.

This thread is totally creepy, given that I read Michael Crichton's Next over the weekend.

As a book itself, it was averageish, but some of the concepts are spooky, like the whole 'claiming ownership a cell line and therefore the rest of the cells, even if they're inside a person still' stuff, and the 'compulsory genetic screening for health insurance and getting denied because you have a gene that might possibly predispose you to heart disease etc' bits.

Anyways.

It, and the comments about racial purity, also made me think of something else I read. More fiction, but then, if someone can think it up for a book, you have to wonder if someone can think it up for practical implications, but it was a bioweapon. A virus. One made by the Chinese, that could target both black and white people because of the pigmentation genes that both races had and expressed differently, but people of Asian extraction lacked entirely.

REPO! the genetic opera.

I think they stole the fist half of that movie form the dreams I have.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Wouldn't this undermined the whole inferiority theory? If blacks could suddenly turn white, no other change, wouldn't that be the racists worst nightmare?

I suppose it might depend on the racist? I don't know. Racism is on a spectrum with variations, just like most opinions. I'm sure some racists would agree with that. Some racists might see it as a sort of condescending benevolence. Some might see it as a way to start removing the inferior races (however accurate that statement is in reality, they might still believe it). Regardless, i bet that even if they made a whole bunch of individuals look like their "superior race", they'd still be treated as less than those naturally of that race. They'd just be above those who still looked inferior, mayhaps.