Utah gay activists protest Mormon church remarks

AllardChardon

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Utah gay activists protest Mormon church remarks
By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY – Gay rights activists staged a silent protest Thursday outside the headquarters of the Mormon church in Salt Lake City in response to a church leader's remarks that homosexuality is an immoral condition that can and should be overcome.

The sermon by Boyd K. Packer, president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, came Sunday during the 180th semiannual general conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Salt Lake City.

In his remarks Packer said some would argue that gays "were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?"

Activists nationwide have called Packer's remarks hurtful and say they ostracize gay church members and can lead some to consider or attempt suicide.

On Thursday night, activists dressed in black to symbolize the loss of young, gay Mormons to suicide, activists lay head-to-toe on the sidewalks circling the church's six-block downtown campus.

Police estimated the crowd at roughly 1,000, although organizer Eric Ethington, who runs the blog PrideinUtah, said event staff counted close to 4,500 participants.

"We want to tell men like Boyd K. Packer that we are tired of watching our children die. There are consequences to your words," Ethington said to the crowd to kick off the event. "You cannot change us, we cannot change ourselves and the more you try, the more dead bodies you leave behind. Stop."

Ethington defended Packer's right to express his opinion, but say the church's gay youth also need to hear a message of hope.

"We love you. You are beautiful. You are perfect just the way you are," he said, drawing cheers.

In a statement issued near the end of the rally, church officials said they support the right of groups to voice their opinion in the public square.

"Those familiar with the Church's doctrine on the importance of marriage and family know it is based on principles of respect and love for all of God's children," spokesman Scott Trotter said in the statement. "We have continually emphasized that there is no room in this discussion for hatred or mistreatment of anyone."

A similar statement was issued in the days following Packer's speech, which also defended the faith's stance against gay marriage. Packer, 86, who is next in line for the church's presidency, said those who tolerate or advocate voting for same-sex marriage want to legalize immorality, "as if a vote would somehow alter the designs of God's laws and nature."

The Human Rights Campaign, the largest national civil rights organization for the lesbian, gay, transgender community, has since called for Packer to recant his "inaccurate and dangerous" comments.

In a news release, the group noted that the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association dispute the efficacy of reparative therapies that attempt to alter a person's sexual orientation and said a 2009 study in the medical journal Pediatrics found that telling teens they can change their orientation often increases the likelihood of suicide.

Protest participant Elan Matotek, 26, was raised Mormon and said the messages she heard in church — that homosexual behavior is wrong — were difficult to hear.

"It makes you uncomfortable for people to come out. It makes you feel like less of a person," said Matotek, who attended the protest with her girlfriend, 22-year-old Jasmine Clark. "But, I feel like I am the person I'm supposed to be."

Packer's message — heard by more than 20,000 in the church conference center and millions more through worldwide television, radio and Internet broadcasts — could have far reaching affects on young church members wrestling with their sexuality, Matotek said.

"You know they will listen to him and believe that what they are doing is wrong," she said. "I think it's just wrong. He has power and I think he's using it in the wrong way."


I saw this and wanted to post it before I called it a night.
 
Mr. Packer is in for one Hell of a surprise when he shuffles off this mortal coil.
 
I suppose Mitt Romney would like him to shut up.

I am surprised that other religious conservatives who denounce homosexuals and cite Biblical scripture do not also denounce Mormon heresy.

If the Mormons ran around in long hair and robes, all other Christian churches would label them a cult. Put a suit and a tie on man and he looks respectable.
 
I have studied Mormons quite extensively because my first novel was set in Great Salt Lake City in 1857. Back then, Mormons would have just castrated anyone they thought was homosexual, for their own eternal salvation, of course.
 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Mormons, advocates Free Will or Agency as the second greatest gift since life itself. It does not want to abridge anyone's rights, it simply wishes to show them a different way, and inform them though they are free to use their agency as they will, their may be natural law and spiritual consequences of their choices.

It does not always advocate to change one's sexual orientation, but to control one's choices and behavior. It says for all to live a life according to the laws of chastity. To not have sex until marriage, but it also affirms marriage to be between a man and a woman.

Obviously not everyone agrees with their stances. However that's why we have freedom of religion, so that if a faith and it's doctrines do not agree with us, we can choose another.

Further none are perfect, save Christ, so we all fall short of the Glory of God, and hence sin.
As Alfred says, "why do we fall Bruce? To learn to pick ourselves up."
In that context, one would do that by choosing to seek forgivenss and try to sin no more.

The hierarchy of the LDS church speaks what it considers itself to be led to speak.
We need not agree nor follow. But it puts forth if we do we shall be blessed for it.
 
And here you have it, folks.

Chastity for life if you are gay-- and speshul underwear for all.
 
I read an account of a Mormon woman and her son engaging in incest in the outer reaches of the Utah realm. The son was castrated in front of his mother as punishment with Brigham's blessings. Tolerance of sin was not practiced back then like it is now.

You do know about the Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857, I hope, Sophus. Not much religious tolerance happening there.
 
Back in the day, it also was basically a Theocracy in Utah, so ..there was a certain ...lack of...balancing agents those days.

In the modern times, they have vastly improved in interfaith relations.
 
Back in the day, it also was basically a Theocracy in Utah, so ..there was a certain ...lack of...balancing agents those days.

In the modern times, they have vastly improved in interfaith relations.
Really? Which other faiths have they improved relations with?
 
Times have changed, indeed. Even though, Mitt Romney had polygamist grandparents in a Mormon establishment in Mexico, (polygamy was outlawed in the U.S.), he is running for President of the United States. That fact alone shows the tolerance of the non-Mormon community has improved significantly.
 
Times have changed, indeed. Even though, Mitt Romney had polygamist grandparents in a Mormon establishment in Mexico, (polygamy was outlawed in the U.S.), he is running for President of the United States. That fact alone shows the tolerance of the non-Mormon community has improved significantly.
No, it just shows that Mitt has a desire to run for POTUS and some good PR people who can minimize discussion of his version of Xtianity.
 
Stella, I meant that back in the day, no Mormon man would have dared to run for President due to all the Mormon-haters back east. Mormons were run out of every state they tried to settle due to their religious convictions, mainly polygamy, and ended up in a God forsaken piece of hostile Indian land they thought no one else would ever want.

Mr. Romney has his eyes on the prize and has the men and the money to help him make a good attempt at being the FIRST Mormon president. He is not my ideal candidate, you understand.
 
Ironically in areas like Proposition 8, but in others as well, they seem to have common interests with the Catholic Church, an irony as neither recognizes the Baptism of the other, yet they share ideas concerning pro-life, pro-family, pro-heterosexual union within marriage, pro-chastity outside marriage..they seem to be able to work together echumenically on certain social issues, disaster relief is another common goal.

Due to the Articles of Faith, they are encouraged to seek that which is good found wherever it may be found for learning.

I recently learned the right wing popular speaker Glenn Beck is Mormon.
 
Ironically in areas like Proposition 8, but in others as well, they seem to have common interests with the Catholic Church, an irony as neither recognizes the Baptism of the other, yet they share ideas concerning pro-life, pro-family, pro-heterosexual union within marriage, pro-chastity outside marriage..they seem to be able to work together echumenically on certain social issues, disaster relief is another common goal.

Due to the Articles of Faith, they are encouraged to seek that which is good found wherever it may be found for learning.
Funny thing, I am pro life too. I just know the difference between a fetus, which is a potential life, and the woman bearing it, who is actually a living human being.

I am pro-family too. I am far more pro-family than the mormons because I am pro many more kinds of family than they are.

I am pro hetero marriage, too. That does not mean I have to be anti- any other kinds of marriage. The existence of gay marriage does not deter hets from marrying.

I am pro-union inside of marriage also. if you can't achieve a union, you are wasting your divinely given hetero privilege to be married. You might as well use your equally divinely given right to a divorce-- oh, wait, millions of hets have done that. More than once in many cases.

I am however anti- "chastity," as Mormons like to call it, before marriage because that is a lot like ignorance.
I recently learned the right wing popular hate speaker Glenn Beck is Mormon.
No big surprise there.
 
It seems anyone who uses scripture for the basis to discriminate, either justifiably or not, is missing the point of acceptance of all people.

In some places, incest is practiced without fear of eternal damnation because of local traditions. Who is to say? God? According to Stephen Hawkings, God is merely 'spontaneous creation' with no forethought or afterthought.

Is not the ultimate good, therefore, allowance of all differences?
 
I automatically question the self-assumed 'sanctity' of any monotheistic religion in modern times and their anti-gay stances given that any number of polytheistic religions preceded them for numerous generations of mankind, most of which were either silent, tolerant or accepting of polygamy, homosexuality, etc.

"For what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Matthew 7:2
 
During my own spiritual journey, I have always found it rather interesting that almost every anti-gay stanced "religious" group has no problem whipping off a poorly interpreted reference to Sodom & Gomorrah or regurgitate one sentence from Leviticus, but can't seem to ever FIND the following verses in their Bibles where "God's own chosen", King David speaks:

"How the mighty have fallen in battle! Jonathan lies slain on your heights.

I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

2nd Samuel 1:22 & 23 ~ NIV


Perhaps they HAVE stumbled across it....and the preceding multiple chapters about the two of them that reads like a gay love story....but simply prefer to pretend it doesn't exist. ;)
 
I cannot call Alexander the Great a "poof" or any other derogatory homosexual term because he was not a weak man, but a very strong one, a warrior of warriors, as well as the noble and refined leader of his huge Empire. The fact that he preferred the company of men was not an obstacle for him nor did it deter him from the long list of accomplishments he achieved in his lifetime.
 
During my own spiritual journey, I have always found it rather interesting that almost every anti-gay stanced "religious" group has no problem whipping off a poorly interpreted reference to Sodom & Gomorrah or regurgitate one sentence from Leviticus, but can't seem to ever FIND the following verses in their Bibles where "God's own chosen", King David speaks:

"How the mighty have fallen in battle! Jonathan lies slain on your heights.

I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

2nd Samuel 1:22 & 23 ~ NIV


Perhaps they HAVE stumbled across it....and the preceding multiple chapters about the two of them that reads like a gay love story....but simply prefer to pretend it doesn't exist. ;)
That's Belief for you.

(and thanks for the verse reference, I can never remember it)
 
Of course, Alexander believed in the many Gods of Olympus, who did not view human sexual behavior in the same light as the Christians later on.
 
It seems anyone who uses scripture for the basis to discriminate, either justifiably or not, is missing the point of acceptance of all people.

In some places, incest is practiced without fear of eternal damnation because of local traditions. Who is to say? God? According to Stephen Hawkings, God is merely 'spontaneous creation' with no forethought or afterthought.

Is not the ultimate good, therefore, allowance of all differences?[/
QUOTE]

~~~

Allard....Man, the 'rational animal', or, as Desmond Morris described, "The Naked Ape", is a self aware or 'sentient' creature, the only one of his kind, who can choose between right and wrong, good and evil.

Throughout the history of Man, he has sought to discover the source of ethics and morals, which early religion, belief and faith in a Supreme Being, attempted to deliver via chapter and verse of that which good and should be pursued and that which is bad, to be avoided.

The acceptance of all differences, good or evil, places one in the 'sub-human' , or animal level where the rational mind is dismissed as the arbiter of moral choices.

Up until the Hippie generation rewrote the rules and the morality of psychology and human behavior, homosexuality was classified as a dysfunctional mental disorder and treated as such.

Dismissing religion as a source of moral guidance is a natural evolution of the mind of man as he rejects faith and belief and pursues knowledge, a rational comprehension of the human condition.

Secular Humanism is the most productive of such efforts, but is fatally flawed when it attempts to classify the human values that must underly every moral system.

I would suggest Ayn Rand's Objectivist Ethics as a Primer in the search for a rational system of morality.

Amicus
 
I have tried and tried to find something, anything, wrong with homosexuality and cannot. Who can say what is wrong with it without bringing in God's judgment? Anyone care to try?

Just because religious folks say it is unnatural and taboo is just enough to satisfy my sense of fair play. Love is a many splendored thing, after all, and in the eyes of the beholder.

I mean, who would willingly ask to be so different, to be an outcast, an abomination. Unless motivated by their need to find the truth of their own feelings, longings and desires (which cannot be denied without sacrificing self), they are prisoners in a closet, a closet made by religious folks, mainly.

Isn't it enough to go against the grain without eternal damnation being tacked on?
 
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