GLB not GLB & T

[grey228]

I don't know about some of you, but the T in GLBT stands for transgender / transsexual; for me, a T-girl or a T-boy is predominantly heterosexual, not homosexual (which is what male-male and female-female) are.

Grouping T-individuals with same-sex groups is weird, and never made much sense to me from a psychological point of view.

What are the thoughts of this board's users?

 

[Experiencedguy]

Wow - I hate to say it, but you have a lot to learn about "T". I have known two very intimately, and one was definately a lesbian who was born with a penis. She eventually went the total route to female, and, last I heard from her, was happily with her female lover (of over 40 years). The other was merely a formerly male prostitute who would fuck with anybody. She had a nice cock, and would get with anyone who wanted her. Men or women didn't matter, but she preferred couples. She had artificial (but really great) boobs, and certainly passed as a total female until you got her naked. Those are the two extremes I have known. But - I have seen some FtM that are just as hot as any MtF.

I'm sure you will get a few more responses to this thread that you won't like.

 

[GaySage]

.......

 

[grey228]

Wow - I hate to say it, but you have a lot to learn about "T".

Depends on the T, dude.

I'm sure you will get a few more responses to this thread that you won't like.

I'm sure. But there's no reason to adopt a uncivil attitude.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We find it's easier to start off with our defenses up when someone starts off by making sweeping generalisations about us. That way YOU get hurt, instead of us. We are fucking tired to death of being the hurt ones.

Does that make sense? Oh, good. Apology accepted.

Now-- I agree that transfolk are a different matter and have different concerns regarding their transness. The sexual preferences of any person are more or less seperate from their genitalial accouterments. Cisfolk can prefer women or men, or both-- or neither. Likewise a trans person can prefer the sex they are leaving behind for partnership, or the sex they are becoming-- or both-- or neither.

The reason Tfolk get lumped in with gay and lesbians is because they don't fit the main gender/sexual binary. Whatever makes the hetero majority uncomfortable goes into this one big pen. Hell, do you really think gay men and lesbians are all that compatible? Not so much, to make another sweeping generalisation. Men who love men (not women), women who love women (not men), trans folk willy-nilly are ranked together, politically speaking, against the phobes that run this world.

Kinda sucks when you think about it, doesn't it?

 

[grey228]

Now-- I agree that transfolk are a different matter and have different concerns regarding their transness. The sexual preferences of any person are more or less seperate from their genitalial accouterments. Cisfolk can prefer women or men, or both-- or neither. Likewise a trans person can prefer the sex they are leaving behind for partnership, or the sex they are becoming-- or both-- or neither.

WTF is Cisfolk? Some kind of Irish fey, like the Sidhe? (I suppose I should Google that XD

Aha Stella -- by categorizing T-folk with sexual preference when they have a sexual identity (not their physical phenotype), I see them as either heterosexual or homosexual, no?

The reason Tfolk get lumped in with gay and lesbians is because they don't fit the main gender/sexual binary. Whatever makes the hetero majority uncomfortable goes into this one big pen.

I'm really sorry for you then. I guess growing up in SF, I see people differently.

Hell, do you really think gay men and lesbians are all that compatible? Not so much, to make another sweeping generalisation. Men who love men (not women), women who love women (not men), trans folk willy-nilly are ranked together, politically speaking, against the phobes that run this world.

That reminds of an awesome T-shirt I saw -- landmines are equal opportunity killers.

 

[Stella_Omega]

WTF is Cisfolk? Some kind of Irish fey, like the Sidhe? (I suppose I should Google that XD

*snerk*

yeah-- "cis' is the opposite of "trans," most specifically in the sense of sex designation. It means being comfortable in the body you were born in, with no plans or desires to make any changes.

Aha Stella -- by categorizing T-folk with sexual preference when they have a sexual identity (not their physical phenotype), I see them as either heterosexual or homosexual, no?

yes, exactly!

As I said, though, the majority of the our culture has a hard time dealing with more than one variable at a time. Anyone who upsets the simple Tarzan/Jane sexual binary in any way gets shoved into that other space.

I'm really sorry for you then. I guess growing up in SF, I see people differently.

Did he come here to be self-congratulatory, she wondered? Your birthplace is a lovely little town, and an oasis and haven for those what can get there. I often wish I were there. But the GLBT designation includes people from all 51 states and the territories. Yanno what I'm saying?

That reminds of an awesome T-shirt I saw -- landmines are equal opportunity killers.

They sure are!

And also, I always think of my Australian Shepherd dog that I had as a teenager. She was a hella natural! Without any training, she could herd all the other pets-- three cats, my mom's two horrible little poodles-- into one tight circle. The dogs and cats hated each other, and would be growling and hissing at each other-- but it didn't matter to Rocky, and they had no choice but to tighten up when she wanted them to.

That's what the "community" part of GLBT community is like.

 

[beauti4brown]

Okay, already answered but good question!

 

[Safe_Bet]

I don't know about some of you, but the T in GLBT stands for transgender / transsexual; for me, a T-girl or a T-boy is predominantly heterosexual, not homosexual (which is what male-male and female-female) are.

Grouping T-individuals with same-sex groups is weird, and never made much sense to me from a psychological point of view.

What are the thoughts of this board's users?

Dude, why do you ask a question if you are going to argue / contest every answer?

If I might be so bold, I'd suggest that you look up some key words like "orientation", "gender identity" and "sexual preference".

 

[Stella_Omega]

Also-- the Tfolk that show up in the GLBT forum probably think of themselves as G , L, or B. Straight Tfolk hang out in the straight forums...

 

[Etoile]

But the GLBT designation includes people from all 51 states and the territories. Yanno what I'm saying?

Did DC become a state while I was in Japan?!?! NOBODY TOLD ME!!!

This thread makes me laugh.

 

[Etoile]

I don't know about some of you, but the T in GLBT stands for transgender / transsexual; for me, a T-girl or a T-boy is predominantly heterosexual, not homosexual (which is what male-male and female-female) are.

Grouping T-individuals with same-sex groups is weird, and never made much sense to me from a psychological point of view.

What are the thoughts of this board's users?

On the surface of things, you're right. One is about who you sleep with, and the other is about what's in your pants. So no, they needn't be lumped together.

However, as others have said already, anything that deviates from the happily-born-penis going into the happily-born-vagina gets thrown into one pot and labeled FAGS.

And personally, since we're in the same pot, I am more than happy to support equality for varieties of gender expression, just as I do equality for varieties of sexual orientation.

 

[blade_rocknut]

t?

maybe i'm not allowed here, then....??? It's my belief that t stands for transgendered as well- a VERY broad term- and depending on whom you ask, encompasses a whole bunch of " straight" and gay people. I for one, am pretty much straight, as far as sexual orientation goes, but suffer from gender issues (and enjoy them) . I'm not feminine, but can't shake the urge to want to be a woman at times. The "T" is here because the g/l/b community is more accepting of people whose lives don't follow someone else's guidelines. Trans means across, as in across the entire spectrum. Transexuals, transvestites, and transgendered can all read and post here, and find a much needed place to feel welcome. My 2 cents, sorry if I left anyone out.

 

[Etoile]

maybe i'm not allowed here, then....??? It's my belief that t stands for transgendered as well- a VERY broad term- and depending on whom you ask, encompasses a whole bunch of " straight" and gay people. I for one, am pretty much straight, as far as sexual orientation goes, but suffer from gender issues (and enjoy them) . I'm not feminine, but can't shake the urge to want to be a woman at times. The "T" is here because the g/l/b community is more accepting of people whose lives don't follow someone else's guidelines. Trans means across, as in across the entire spectrum. Transexuals, transvestites, and transgendered can all read and post here, and find a much needed place to feel welcome. My 2 cents, sorry if I left anyone out.

Word! You're right on the money.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Transexuals, transvestites, and transgendered can all read and post here, and find a much needed place to feel welcome.

Indeed so, and it's a great thing! However not all transgendered folk feel welcome here. YOUR kind of "T" have found themselves a good home-- I think I am the only female-to-male that posts here, and I only do so out of sheer cussedness.

And a lot of actually gay guys find the constant emphasis on sucking cock and satin undies a bit tiresome. Being gay really is more than a sex fetish for a lot of us, and this forum is a morass of fetish posts.

As i have pointed out a couple of times, the GLBT community is accepting of other genders only in an us-against-them political way. Individuals still prefer to have a choice in the company they keep. Lesbians who don't actually like men-- there are plenty of those around, trust me-- don't go to gay-lesbian meetings by choice. Gay men don't necessarily adore transgirls.

We are better at tolerating each other for sure. We have had more experience with it.

 

[Etoile]

Indeed so, and it's a great thing! However not all transgendered folk feel welcome here. YOUR kind of "T" have found themselves a good home-- I think I am the only female-to-male that posts here, and I only do so out of sheer cussedness.

There have been others through the years. Do you remember Dusty? I think his full username was DustyWolfe? He and I were good friends once upon a time, but RL took over and he vanished off the net, doesn't even update his LJ anymore. I can't think of others offhand, but Dusty has been on my mind lately anyway.

And a lot of actually gay guys find the constant emphasis on sucking cock and satin undies a bit tiresome. Being gay really is more than a sex fetish for a lot of us, and this forum is a morass of fetish posts.

As I've said a thousand times...the forum is what WE make it. Quite frankly, most gay guys hang out elsewhere online - not because Lit is so awful, but because other places are more popular for them. Gay.com seems to be pretty popular, but I think you have to pay, so I don't know much about it. But the only way to make Lit better is by posting better threads...I hate to split things up by having a "Bi-Curious" forum but then again not everything goes in "News and Issues" either...I dunno, it's a tough issue.

Lesbians who don't actually like men-- there are plenty of those around, trust me

There are, and yet so much fewer than people seem to think!

We are better at tolerating each other for sure. We have had more experience with it.

This too.

 

[blade_rocknut]

awww, shucks

Thank you for the kind words. I have been a come and go lit reder for a while, but seldom post. Gettin more ornery with age, I suppose. I like coming on, looking through threads, and finding the ones which interest me at the time. Five years ago, I wouldn't have cared one bit about someone being narrow minded; and even now am not the outspoken type (normally). Back then I was just another guy who occasionally nabbed the wife's panties when she wasn't home; then felt like shit afterwards. Literotica ( and a few other places) have helped me understand there's no point in feeling bad about who/what you are.
If one person is freed from their guilt at the expense of a thousand scoffs of disapproval, so the F what? Bravo for Lit, and people of all types who don't judge- whether they understand it or not. I was once one to judge, and shame on me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There have been others through the years. Do you remember Dusty? I think his full username was DustyWolfe? He and I were good friends once upon a time, but RL took over and he vanished off the net, doesn't even update his LJ anymore. I can't think of others offhand, but Dusty has been on my mind lately anyway.

never met Dusty, boo! So there were two of us, once. And then there was one...

As I've said a thousand times...the forum is what WE make it. Quite frankly, most gay guys hang out elsewhere online - not because Lit is so awful, but because other places are more popular for them. Gay.com seems to be pretty popular, but I think you have to pay, so I don't know much about it. But the only way to make Lit better is by posting better threads...I hate to split things up by having a "Bi-Curious" forum but then again not everything goes in "News and Issues" either...I dunno, it's a tough issue.

Which WE in particular is in charge of posting "better" threads-- better for whom? My concerns are not "better" than Blade's, and Mr. Briggs, and LoveSpurts and all the ladyboys. My concerns are different than Blade's, that's all.

This forum is a wonderful and rare service for transgirls who are wrestling with their desires, and especially for people who have a purely sexual desire-- a fetish-- that cannot be addressed anywhere else. I do not mind dropping in every once in a whle with that understanding, and posting encouragement and pictures when I have them.

'Cause there is SO much a need for just sex talk.

But.

The rest of us, who are queer in more ways than silk panties and buttplugs, we aren't so well-served by this forum. Nor is every non-fetish GLBT topic a News and Issues topic. My suggestion is that this primary forum be renamed somehow; "GLBT fetish" and the subforum become "Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered cafe" (all spelled out like that, somehow it leaves less doubt in people's minds) People will always show up being bi-curious, but if they want to talk about sucking dick but not liking men-- there will be a place for them. And that place will be the first place they find. meanwhile, we can request our threads to be moved there if we wish. What do you think Etoile, would that work?

 

[Etoile]

And then there was one...Which WE in particular is in charge of posting "better" threads-- better for whom? My concerns are not "better" than Blade's, and Mr. Briggs, and LoveSpurts and all the ladyboys. My concerns are different than Blade's, that's all.

This forum is a wonderful and rare service for transgirls who are wrestling with their desires, and especially for people who have a purely sexual desire-- a fetish-- that cannot be addressed anywhere else. I do not mind dropping in every once in a whle with that understanding, and posting encouragement and pictures when I have them.

'Cause there is SO much a need for just sex talk.

But.

The rest of us, who are queer in more ways than silk panties and buttplugs, we aren't so well-served by this forum. Nor is every non-fetish GLBT topic a News and Issues topic. My suggestion is that this primary forum be renamed somehow; "GLBT fetish" and the subforum become "Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered cafe" (all spelled out like that, somehow it leaves less doubt in people's minds) People will always show up being bi-curious, but if they want to talk about sucking dick but not liking men-- there will be a place for them. And that place will be the first place they find. meanwhile, we can request our threads to be moved there if we wish. What do you think Etoile, would that work?

"Better" meaning "more like what you* want" and "we" meaning "all of us."
* - You as the individual you, the person who wants something other than what is available

Unfortunately, I can't control the forum. When GLBT started, it was at my request, and I tried to control things. I got ripped a new one, so I take a pretty hands-off stance here. What you're suggesting is an "if you build it, they will come" philosophy - if the structure is there, then people will show up. But without the people, there is no justification for the structure, so how can we request it?

Honestly, I think we need a "Fetish" forum. Not under BDSM or GLBT, but just "Fetish" - it can be feet, lactation, panties, whatever. Of course, then you get into things like splitting up transvestites (typically fetish-motivated, without dysphoria) and transgendered (typically gender dysphoria). And where do the gay male piggies and leathermen go, GLBT or Fetish?

There's not a clear answer here. I agree with you that it would be nice to have a space to discuss everything we've talked about. I've wanted it for years, since day one even (sometime in May 2003). But it's hard to figure out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

* - You as the individual you, the person who wants something other than what is available

What I want is a place where it is not my duty to be a good thread-starting citizen. A place where I do not have to dig through pages for a little bit of content that addresses other concerns.

You cannot control this forum, we all know that. You can offer it to the gay and trans boys who come here to fetishise, because they really do need this place. Rename it, if you want.

You can ask for a secondary forum to act as a "quiet place" and that would be just fine, IMO. There are plenty transgendered people who like to come here and whoop and holler and wave panties, after all... me included at times.