For Perg, the "Gay" gene.

[Ishmael]

here's a definition of "birth defect."

"A birth defect is an abnormality of structure, function or metabolism (body chemistry) present at birth that results in physical or mental disabilities or death. Thousands of different birth defects have been identified."

https://www.marchofdimes.com/professionals/14332_1206.asp

i have a hard time equating homosexuality with a disability. maybe at one time it may not have been the best trait for survival of the species; that is hardly an issue today, though.

and for what it is worth, the great bulk of my fees originated with--as in representing them as their counsel--hospitals, doctors, accountants, brokerage houses, chemical companies and small business owners.

Congenital Disorders-or diseases are all congenital, though they may not be expressed or recognized until later in life. Genetic diseases may be divided into single-gene defects, multiple-gene disorders, or chromosomal defects. Single-gene defects may arise from abnormalities of both copies of an autosomal gene (a recessive disorder) or of only one of the two copies (a dominant disorder). Some conditions result from deletions or abnormalities of a few genes located contiguously on a chromosome. Chromosomal disorders involve the loss or duplication of larger portions of a chromosome (or an entire chromosome) containing hundreds of genes. Large chromosomal abnormalities always produce effects on many different body parts and organ systems.

You didn't look hard enough, this is science, not law.

Ishmael

 

[Sean]

and for what it is worth, the great bulk of my fees originated with--as in representing them as their counsel--hospitals, doctors, accountants, brokerage houses, chemical companies and small business owners.

Fascist whore!

 

[unregistered]

 

[cjh]

That's because a gene has not been discovered determining a physical characteristic. Until about 1973 it was considered a mental disorder until it was voted otherwise by one vote, as I recall.

lol. so the docs need to recast their votes?

assume. for sake of argument, that it has a genetic origin. how is it any more a disability than being an albino or being born butt ugly?

 

[unregistered]

 

[cjh]

You didn't look hard enough, this is science, not law.

Ishmael

actually, i do.

how is a gene that triggers attraction for one's own sex any more a defect than one that triggers my eyes to be blue?

where is the physical or mental disability?

 

[cjh]

Who said it was a disability? The term was defect.

define birth defect.

 

[unregistered]

 

[busybody..]

LIBERALISM is a mental defect

 

[cjh]

Fascist whore!

heh.

i actually believe in the rule of law.

 

[cjh]

What would that birth defect have to do with race?

I said "defect":

Main Entry: 1de·fect
Pronunciation: \ˈdē-ˌfekt, di-ˈ\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin defectus lack, from deficere to desert, fail, from de- + facere to do — more at do
Date: 15th century

1 a : an imperfection that impairs worth or utility : shortcoming <the grave defects in our foreign policy> b : an imperfection (as a vacancy or an unlike atom) in a crystal lattice
2 [Latin defectus] : a lack of something necessary for completeness, adequacy, or perfection : deficiency <a hearing defect>

Pretty clear.

if you say so.

your *coughcough* "forgetfulness" aside, how does being gay impair an individual's worth or utility?

 

[cjh]

LIBERALISM is a mental defect

i'm sure it'll be listed in the next DSM.

 

[The Mutt]

This whole debate is stupid and pointless.

I'm attracted to short, skinny, hairy brunettes. Big buxom Blondes do nothing for me.

Is it a gene or a life-style choice?

Who the fuck cares? It doesn't matter!

Is it the government's business? Is it anybody's business but mine?

And why doesn't the hypocrisy of the "small government" Conservatives make their heads explode?

 

[Sean]

heh.

i actually believe in the rule of law.

All of it?

 

[cjh]

All of it?

i can't say that i'm not jaded.

and i can't say that i believe unequivocally in every judge, juror, lawyer, or legislator.

i lost that faith a long time ago.

but insofar as the system is concerned, i believe in it. i've seen some pretty amazing things happen in the court room. every now and then justice prevails under near insurmountable odds.

 

[busybody..]

i'm sure it'll be listed in the next DSM.

why not

EVERYTHING ELSE IS IN THERE

 

[Sean]

i can't say that i'm not jaded.

and i can't say that i believe unequivocally in every judge, juror, lawyer, or legislator.

i lost that faith a long time ago.

but insofar as the system is concerned, i believe in it. i've seen some pretty amazing things happen in the court room. every now and then justice prevails under near insurmountable odds.

And it can also be used as a tool of oppression. Even in the most "enlightened" or "civilised" societies. Taking the current discussion, gay marriage rears its controversial head.

 

[cjh]

And it can also be used as a tool of oppression. Even in the most "enlightened" or "civilised" societies. Taking the current discussion, gay marriage rears its controversial head.

absolutely.

it can be--is--used to whitewash abominable behavior.

but it can provide a forum, too, to meaningfully challenge that behavior.

i once represented a gay mother in a custody dispute in a particularly "christian" city in tennessee. the pastor of her former church and members of the congregation showed up at every hearing, taking notes and groaning loudly and generally clucking about.

all of the local judges stepped down. a judge from a different part of the state was called in to hear the matter.

my client ultimately got custody.

i would like to say that it was because of my brilliant lawyering. it was not. the judge looked at the facts and honestly applied the "best interests of the child" standard.

 

[Songcatcher]

In near future, people with ass-fuck gene are shot at births.

 

[Ishmael]

actually, i do.

how is a gene that triggers attraction for one's own sex any more a defect than one that triggers my eyes to be blue?

where is the physical or mental disability?

Goes right back to my original post on that particular subject CJ. If the "Gay" gene were to have been naturally selected for preemminence the species would be extinct by now. Further, you didn't read the quote very carefully, a genetic disorder can manifest itself as a mental state. Certainly you would have to give some credence to the brain being involved with sexual preference.

Now, we can sit and argue all night as to whether it's disorder and I'm certain that you can continually throw out various strawmen in support of a position that it's not. My stance will continue to be that any genetic combination that naturally selects for extinction isn't a desireable trait and qualifies for disorder status. Fuck the PC police.

As far as any interest I have in homosexuals are concerned, they fall into two subject matter. The one we're discussing now and my interest is of a scientific bent only with a peripheral interest in considering the sociological ramifications of the actual discovery of a "Gay" gene. If it is proven that there is a "Gay" gene then we will know with absolutely NO uncertainty that the homosexual has no more choice in what he/she is than someone with Downs Syndrome.

The second is gay marriage and my interest there is purely political, and then only from the standpoint of how the gay community over-reached and have blown themselves out of the water. Much to the chagrin of many of my conservative compatriots, whether they marry or not is no skin off my nose. I neither argue for it or against it, merely observe the tactics.

Ishmael

 

[Sean]

absolutely.

it can be--is--used to whitewash abominable behavior.

but it can provide a forum, too, to meaningfully challenge that behavior.

i once represented a gay mother in a custody dispute in a particularly "christian" city in tennessee. the pastor of her former church and members of the congregation showed up at every hearing, taking notes and groaning loudly and generally clucking about.

all of the local judges stepped down. a judge from a different part of the state was called in to hear the matter.

my client ultimately got custody.

i would like to say that it was because of my brilliant lawyering. it was not. the judge looked at the facts and honestly applied the "best interests of the child" standard.

"Justice? What has that got to do with it? We're talking about the law!"
Horace Rumpole

 

[Songcatcher]

You know the people on your tv screen sucked cock one time or another.

 

[unregistered]

 

[zipman]

Goes right back to my original post on that particular subject CJ. If the "Gay" gene were to have been naturally selected for preemminence the species would be extinct by now. Further, you didn't read the quote very carefully, a genetic disorder can manifest itself as a mental state. Certainly you would have to give some credence to the brain being involved with sexual preference.

Now, we can sit and argue all night as to whether it's disorder and I'm certain that you can continually throw out various strawmen in support of a position that it's not. My stance will continue to be that any genetic combination that naturally selects for extinction isn't a desireable trait and qualifies for disorder status. Fuck the PC police.

As far as any interest I have in homosexuals are concerned, they fall into two subject matter. The one we're discussing now and my interest is of a scientific bent only with a peripheral interest in considering the sociological ramifications of the actual discovery of a "Gay" gene. If it is proven that there is a "Gay" gene then we will know with absolutely NO uncertainty that the homosexual has no more choice in what he/she is than someone with Downs Syndrome.

The second is gay marriage and my interest there is purely political, and then only from the standpoint of how the gay community over-reached and have blown themselves out of the water. Much to the chagrin of many of my conservative compatriots, whether they marry or not is no skin off my nose. I neither argue for it or against it, merely observe the tactics.

Ishmael

Except for the small fact that homosexuality has been noted for well over 2,000 years in a variety of cultures and across different continents. From the ancient Greeks to the ancient Chinese, homoesexuality existed and despite your theory of it being a genetic trait that leads to extinction, it has actually flourished.

It's only a defect among the small-minded and judgemental, which explains your and vetteman's ignorance concerning it. Seems that CJH understands "the science" better than you do.

 

[cjh]

Goes right back to my original post on that particular subject CJ. If the "Gay" gene were to have been naturally selected for preemminence the species would be extinct by now. Further, you didn't read the quote very carefully, a genetic disorder can manifest itself as a mental state. Certainly you would have to give some credence to the brain being involved with sexual preference.

Now, we can sit and argue all night as to whether it's disorder and I'm certain that you can continually throw out various strawmen in support of a position that it's not. My stance will continue to be that any genetic combination that naturally selects for extinction isn't a desireable trait and qualifies for disorder status. Fuck the PC police.

<snip>

Ishmael

i think we simply draw different conclusions from similar understandings.

and i caught that information in the quote as well as the bit about birth defects often resulting from the confluence of genes and environment and chemistry.

some hypothesize that there is a god gene, that we are genetically hard-wired to have faith.

who knows? but, assuming for argument's sake that is true, then if gays are deemed to be suffering from a birth defect because they are less likely to reproduce, catholic priests also arguably suffer from a birth defect. though there is no love lost between me and the catholic church, i can't go that far.