Those Silly Usual Suspects Do It Again

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/mass_may_join_e.html

SUPPOSE THE WINNER IS DICK CHENEY?

 

[Songcatcher]

Doesn't matter.

Electional voting boxes are fraudurant.


The bible-reading Americans are too simple-minded.

 

[amicus]

Doesn't matter.

Electional voting boxes are fraudurant.


The bible-reading Americans are too simple-minded.[/QUOTE]

~~~

I am gong to take exception to both your conclusions.

It does matter; as every attempt to hold a fair election is made in every case. Perhaps you should participate in your Precinct and learn the long and hard work done by volunteers to prepare for an election. It is not perfect, there is fraud and there are mistakes made, but it is a system designed to give the people, all the people, a means to exercise their rights to self government.

Secondly; the Ten Commandments, and those basic moral imperatives are included in almost every Religion, are a fair guideline to understanding right and wrong and the morality of all human actions, large and small.

A mcuh greater danger than your 'simple minded bible thumpers', is that vicious vocal minority of left wing intellectuals who proclaim there is no right and no wrong and no moral absoolutes for man to live by.

They are the real threat to humanity.

Amicus

 

[Songcatcher]

No.

Americans are not fit to lead the world.

 

[amicus]

No.

Americans are not fit to lead the world.[/QUOTE]

~~~

American's do not and have never wanted or tried to 'lead' the world.

Quite the opposite, American's have sacrificed blood and lives to protect the rights of others oppressed by their government.

You might ask yourself the question as to why America is the land of Immigrants? Why do people from every country in the world try to become an American?

Amicus...one who has defended his country and proud of it!

 

[TE999]

A change in the way candidates are elected, such as this being proposed in Massachusetts, would put their national voting choices at a disadvantage versus more populous states...which is the whole point of the Electoral College...to mitigate the tyranny of the majority.

What's with the residents of Massachusetts anyway? First they revere the Kennedy's as gods and now nonsense like this? Maybe it's something in the water.

 

[Huckleman2000]

So, the idea of "one person, one vote" is silly?

This would have saved the country from W.

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[Huckleman2000]

Here is a chart showing the relative weight in the electoral college of a voter in each state. A voter in Wyoming casts a vote that counts more than 3 times as much as a voter in California.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/02/opinion/02chart_large.jpg

 

[TE999]

Tom, with the winner-take-all system now, if you happen to live in a state where you are of a minority party, your vote never counts. How can that be democratic?

Why is someone's vote more important than mine just because they vote the majority party of their state?

Voter turnout is much lower in states where people know their vote won't make a bit of difference.

The argument about it being unfair because a big city may vote one way and give all their votes to one party? Gee whiz. That's the same damn thing that is already happening.

That's how the Electoral College screws voters.

At least in the big city situation other votes will still count. They won't disappear just because the majority in the city voted a certain way.

Popular vote is actually more fair in both situations. No matter what, each person is guaranteed their say.

True, to an extent.

Virtually since it's inception, critics have charged that the Electoral College concept is unfair to the citizenry, yet over lo these many years no proposal to amend Article 2, Section 1, et.al. of the Constitution has ever come close to being approved in Congress or by the states.

I would contend that voter fraud, bloc voting, political 'machine' voting and such can be cited as usurping the will of the people to a greater extent than purportedly the Electoral College.

I would also contend that marked irritation with the current system is more often than not proportional to whether ones candidate has won or lost. The concept of 'fairness' is not inherent in the structure of a Constitutional Republic such as ours, nor is the 'Tyranny of the Majority' enshrined in the Constitution.

 

[Loring2]

You're right ...

So, the idea of "one person, one vote" is silly?

This would have saved the country from W.

... and we could have had an even more inept slimy ... ta da ... Al Gore
It turns out we were lucky huh.

 

[Huckleman2000]

... and we could have had an even more inept slimy ... ta da ... Al Gore
It turns out we were lucky huh.

Speak for yourself.

 

[TE999]

... and we could have had an even more inept slimy ... ta da ... Al Gore
It turns out we were lucky huh.

I dunno, having a 'crazed sex poodle' in the Oval Office has a certain cachet' to it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

There are some people trying to change the method of choosing electoral college voters in CA. They would be chosen by congressional districts, with the presidential candidate who carries a district getting the vote fromn that district. The overall winner would get the two votes allocated because of senators.

This wold probably be more fair than the current winner take all, but the Dems would never stand for it, because they almost always win the state and would hate to have their electoral votes cut in half.

 

[Carnevil9]

JBJ - you seem to be the master of posting the undescribed link. Would it kill you to include a synopsis in your post? Something to make me think it is worth my time to follow your link?

Just a thought......Carney

 

[amicus]

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_procon.php

some pro's & cons on the subject...

 

[Songcatcher]

No.

Americans are not fit to lead the world.[/QUOTE]

~~~

American's do not and have never wanted or tried to 'lead' the world.

Quite the opposite, American's have sacrificed blood and lives to protect the rights of others oppressed by their government.

You might ask yourself the question as to why America is the land of Immigrants? Why do people from every country in the world try to become an American?

Amicus...one who has defended his country and proud of it!

That was back then.

This is now.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JBJ - you seem to be the master of posting the undescribed link. Would it kill you to include a synopsis in your post? Something to make me think it is worth my time to follow your link?

Just a thought......Carney

I personally dont care what you do vis-a-vis my links. I'm not here to impress you or suck up to you. I post what I think is interesting, what you do about it is your fucking decision. Am I clear?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There are some people trying to change the method of choosing electoral college voters in CA. They would be chosen by congressional districts, with the presidential candidate who carries a district getting the vote fromn that district. The overall winner would get the two votes allocated because of senators.

This wold probably be more fair than the current winner take all, but the Dems would never stand for it, because they almost always win the state and would hate to have their electoral votes cut in half.

Another doofus who shoulda been aborted.

What exactly dont you get about stealing elections and stuffing ballot boxes? If we go with popular vote there's no doubt more people in DC will vote than live there. The fraud will be epidemic everywhere. As it is, if you steal every fucking vote in Illinois the damage is contained to Illinois.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SARAH's another doofus who shoulda been aborted. She obviously had her finger up her ass in civics class.

States like Wyoming get unequal representation in Congress and in the Electoral College cuz it chex & balances the influence of large states. It forces politicians to take small states seriously.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Another doofus who shoulda been aborted.

What exactly dont you get about stealing elections and stuffing ballot boxes? If we go with popular vote there's no doubt more people in DC will vote than live there. The fraud will be epidemic everywhere. As it is, if you steal every fucking vote in Illinois the damage is contained to Illinois.

Elections are going to be stolen and ballot boxes are going to be stuffed regardless of the method used to elect the pres. There isn't much to be done about it, especially when the persons who should be watching out for it are partisan politicians. This is especially so in large cities, which is one reason why there are so many Dems in office.

 

[Huckleman2000]

SARAH's another doofus who shoulda been aborted. She obviously had her finger up her ass in civics class.

States like Wyoming get unequal representation in Congress and in the Electoral College cuz it chex & balances the influence of large states. It forces politicians to take small states seriously.

I thought it was a concession to slave states - wasn't it the whole thing about slaves counting as 2/3 of a person for electoral college purposes?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It was a concession to Rhode Island and Delaware, maybe New Hampshire. Vermont joined the Union later.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Elections are going to be stolen and ballot boxes are going to be stuffed regardless of the method used to elect the pres. There isn't much to be done about it, especially when the persons who should be watching out for it are partisan politicians. This is especially so in large cities, which is one reason why there are so many Dems in office.

AND! If the Democrats find ten hundred gozillion votes in New York, New York doesnt get to decide the election for the whole country. New York gets whatever the last census counted.

Were you born this dum?

 

[sr71plt]

I thought it was a concession to slave states - wasn't it the whole thing about slaves counting as 2/3 of a person for electoral college purposes?

No, it's as JBJ said. One of the major objections of the smaller states (in population) projected to help make up the Union was that Virginia and New York would control all on a system based only on population. Ergo, the legislature was made bicameral. The lower house based on population share (at the last census, with a guarantee of at least one representative per state) and the upper house based on "each state is equal." Checks and balances.