The use of the words "slut" and "whore"- what are your thoughts?

[kitten_candy]

I think I have to disagree with this one. I've never been able to intellectually support the notion that words only have the power you give them. For example, no matter how much pride I may invest in calling myself a fag, it will never be -enough- to prevent some jackass hick from perpetrating violence on me for the sake of the exact same word. So no, I don't think one can "take it back" when it comes to words designed explicitly to shame and hurt. We can inure ourselves the meanings that others assign to a word we attempt to reclaim, but we cannot control the hate that that same word ignites in another. To pretend that calling ourselves and our friends fags, cunts, whores, and worse sucks the venom out of those words is naive. It also does -nothing- to deconstruct the hate culture surrounding sexually liberated individuals.

I appreciate what all of you have said in this thread, but the idea of taking it back will never fly for me. Much like one cannot be a pimp and a prostitute too, one cannot work effectively to dismantle inappropriate social behaviors while simultaneously employing hate speech, even if our intentions in using those words are much different.

i've been giving this a lot of thought - the issue of the kinds of words we use within a D/s relationship and the meaning these words have to our worth.

the OP talks about submission as a noble choice. it is an honorable endeavor. a committed, long-term D/s relationship recognizes that the submissive is a "desirable person of worth."

OP says:

Being that slut and whore are terms explicitly constructed to cast negative judgement on the sexual promiscuity of a given person, they don't seem to apply in a monogamous relationship.

how do they not apply? why can't i be his slut? his whore? how does that demean my worth in any way? do i really think he's telling me i've been out fucking around?

i am a very sexually liberated person. in a committed relationship, using these words have no, absolutely no connection to a hate culture, as the OP states above in red. we're not trying to deconstruct anything in a social sense.

in the blue statement above, i'm unclear how calling me any name, whether it's slut, whore, fuckmeat, equals hate speech. i'm not working to dismantle any inappropriate social behaviors, especially in a private, committed mostly monogamous relationship.

the fact my partner might put a boot on my neck and spit on me really truly has no connection to anything outside of the room we're in. he might be deconstructing me but nowhere in this is any sign of a hate culture. it is part of our culture which includes love, intimacy, humiliation and hurt. for me, it's all wrapped up together in an incredible package.

i don't hold up my submission as a noble gift, but i get your point. i just dont' know that equating what goes on within my relationship can be translated to a larger social question.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Surely the meaning of the dictionary definition of the word becomes less relevant when used to mean something different? Otherwise, all of us using 'Daddy', 'baby', or 'little girl' are being seriously insulting also?

"Oooohhh, very young child or infant! Give your informal phrase for father some sweet lovin'!"

Well, let's look at it from another perspective and maybe this'll help make it make more sense.

A lot of people could never think the word "nigger" wasn't insulting, no matter WHAT context it was used in.

Words have power, words have incredible power. The ability to call up emotions, memories...that's pretty pervasive for something that's nothing more than a social construct as human language.

So, some people aren't going to be able to think the word "slut" or "whore" are okay words to use, no matter what context they're in or what intentions were behind the words.

Your post just proved that that word can be used with non-offensive intent.

I understand that reaction. I mean, I wouldn't want to put slut or whore in the pledge of allegiance and require schoolkids to recite it each morning. (Wait. Actually, I would do that, for maybe a week. That would be fun.) I'm just not a huge fan of the idea that if something is true for Person X, it's always true for everybody everywhere.

~smile~

 

[kitten_candy]

Well, let's look at it from another perspective and maybe this'll help make it make more sense.

A lot of people could never think the word "nigger" wasn't insulting, no matter WHAT context it was used in.

Words have power, words have incredible power. The ability to call up emotions, memories...that's pretty pervasive for something that's nothing more than a social construct as human language.

So, some people aren't going to be able to think the word "slut" or "whore" are okay words to use, no matter what context they're in or what intentions were behind the words.

it does make sense when you're talking about using language in a larger, social context.

however, the OP is equating what happens in a loving, committed private relationship to hate speech. that's where i can't make the leap.

it might not be right for her, which is absolutely fine. it's an interesting, provocative question worth discussing.

in the end, for me, the fact i am in to humiliation - which includes name calling - doesn't make me less than.

 

[satindesire]

Your post just proved that that word can be used with non-offensive intent.

I understand that reaction. I mean, I wouldn't want to put slut or whore in the pledge of allegiance and require schoolkids to recite it each morning. (Wait. Actually, I would do that, for maybe a week. That would be fun.) I'm just not a huge fan of the idea that if something is true for Person X, it's always true for everybody everywhere.

~smile~

it does make sense when you're talking about using language in a larger, social context.

however, the OP is equating what happens in a loving, committed private relationship to hate speech. that's where i can't make the leap.

it might not be right for her, which is absolutely fine. it's an interesting, provocative question worth discussing.

in the end, for me, the fact i am in to humiliation - which includes name calling - doesn't make me less than.

I don't think I explained myself very well.

The point I'm trying to make is that some individuals (obviously not either of you two) simply cannot hear certain words, NO MATTER WHAT, and find them inoffensive.

Obviously you two take into consideration context and intent behind words. But some people are very sensitive to certain words and their emotional reaction to those words make it impossible for them to take into consideration context or intent.

Does that make sense now?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I don't think I explained myself very well.

The point I'm trying to make is that some individuals (obviously not either of you two) simply cannot hear certain words, NO MATTER WHAT, and find them inoffensive.

Obviously you two take into consideration context and intent behind words. But some people are very sensitive to certain words and their emotional reaction to those words make it impossible for them to take into consideration context or intent.

Does that make sense now?

It was clear before. You're right: sometimes it's a hard limit.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Don't care for them.

Daddy sets the limits.

He calls me his little bitch sometimes. i don't like that either.

 

[Black_Bunny]

Mind borrowing him out for some lessons?
(For me actually. I'm still a beginner...)

How sweet! I will tell him what you said, I'm sure he will be quite flattered

 

[Kojote]

How sweet! I will tell him what you said, I'm sure he will be quite flattered

He should be...
The best way to judge ones work is to look at the piece of work he did.
And looking at it I want to say he did a great job...

(Oh that sounds stupid, doesn't it? As if you didn' t do anything to get the relationship running smooth... Sorry.)

 

[Black_Bunny]

He should be...
The best way to judge ones work is to look at the piece of work he did.
And looking at it I want to say he did a great job...

(Oh that sounds stupid, doesn't it? As if you didn' t do anything to get the relationship running smooth... Sorry.)

Haha, don't be sorry! As the Dominant it's his job to take control of matters. If things are going well, I have him to thank

 

[satindesire]

It was clear before. You're right: sometimes it's a hard limit.

Oy! I was all full of pain medication last night, so please excuse me if I wasn't.

 

[Kojote]

Haha, don't be sorry! As the Dominant it's his job to take control of matters. If things are going well, I have him to thank

Just wanted to clear it out since objectification has been an issue in the past few days over in the feminism thread...
But thank you for relieving me!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Slut and whore? They are only offensive if you think they are. They are just names. In this politically correct world, call some vanilla chick (did I say chick?) a slut of a whore and see if you don't end up in court.

Actually, I don't use either word. Not that I wouldn't or haven't at some time in the past or future...it's just I don't know any sluts or whores at the moment.

Just wanted to clear it out since objectification has been an issue in the past few days over in the feminism thread...
But thank you for relieving me!

Both of you are conflating politics with relationships and sex. I do a lot of things sexually-- with one (or more) specific persons, which I would never, ever, do in the general public. So do you.

Please remember that calling your girlfriend a slut in private does NOT mean that the word is just fine when applied in other contexts. Your girlfriend is someone you have already established a level of trust with. She's consented to play objectification games with you. Other women have not.

 

[Kojote]

Both of you are conflating politics with relationships and sex. I do a lot of things sexually-- with one (or more) specific persons, which I would never, ever, do in the general public. So do you.

Please remember that calling your girlfriend a slut in private does NOT mean that the word is just fine when applied in other contexts. Your girlfriend is someone you have already established a level of trust with. She's consented to play objectification games with you. Other women have not.

I wanted to clear it out with her because I used some potentially offending wording in the post before.
Nothing political this time. I swear!

 

[Netzach]

OT, but....

Like one cannot be a pimp and a prostitute too

You can't?

 

[Netzach]

Both of you are conflating politics with relationships and sex. I do a lot of things sexually-- with one (or more) specific persons, which I would never, ever, do in the general public. So do you.

Please remember that calling your girlfriend a slut in private does NOT mean that the word is just fine when applied in other contexts. Your girlfriend is someone you have already established a level of trust with. She's consented to play objectification games with you. Other women have not.

Agreed, other people don't get to make the call what I'm offended by and not. I suspect that if I referred to either of these gents as "hey you, shit for brains" they would not assume it was a friendly greeting. Whether I meant it as such would have no bearing, none. So the idea that I should have to assume that "slut" and "bitch" are somehow "not meant like that" is a stretch.

If I'm fucking them or best friends with them or something it's another story. How that interaction feels to observers is another layer to it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Agreed, other people don't get to make the call what I'm offended by and not. I suspect that if I referred to either of these gents as "hey you, shit for brains" they would not assume it was a friendly greeting. Whether I meant it as such would have no bearing, none. So the idea that I should have to assume that "slut" and "bitch" are somehow "not meant like that" is a stretch.

If I'm fucking them or best friends with them or something it's another story. How that interaction feels to observers is another layer to it.

Right. Last night I grabbed my date, shoved her onto the bed, slid my fist into her pussy and kept it there for a very long time-- until she was crying and begging me to let her go.

This is not socially approved behavior. I don't indulge myself this way with strangers.

 

[kitten_candy]

I don't think I explained myself very well.

The point I'm trying to make is that some individuals (obviously not either of you two) simply cannot hear certain words, NO MATTER WHAT, and find them inoffensive.

Obviously you two take into consideration context and intent behind words. But some people are very sensitive to certain words and their emotional reaction to those words make it impossible for them to take into consideration context or intent.

Does that make sense now?

i got it before.