How long is a Literotica novella?

[polynices]

This has probably been discussed somewhere before, but how long is a Literotica novella? Or, perhaps more precisely, what's the minimum length for a novella on Literotica?

I'm asking because there's a pretty wide range of definitions out there in the wider world. Wikipedia says this:

A novella (also called a short novel) is a written, fictional, prose narrative longer than a novelette but shorter than a novel. The Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America Nebula Awards for science fiction define the novella as having a word count between 17,500 and 40,000. ... Other definitions start as low as 10,000 words and run as high as 70,000 words.

I'm particularly interested in this because I'm writing a longish story at the moment that will almost certainly reach ten thousand words (Wikipedia's possible minumum) and may go further. I'd like to avoid the requirement to put it in a specific genre category because it will contain a fairly wide range of sexual activities (what a dull expression! - but you know what I mean). I'd also like to keep the story's final 'twist' secret, and an overtly defining category would give the game away.

So: How long is a novella from Literotica's point of view?

(And thanks to Driphoney, by the way, who mentioned novellas on the Straddling Categories thread, and thus suggested this possible solution to my quandry.)

- polynices

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think Literotica has a point of view on this.

Traditionally, Short story stopped at 20,000 words, where novella took over. But traditionally very little is written in the novella realm because it's not commercially viable as a standalone print work (e-book has revived the novella). Traiditonally there was no such thing as a novellette. And now, in the computerized era (ushering in the short attention span) and with the demise of print short story magazines, 20,000 is considered too long for a short story.

So, take your pick. Everyone else does.

 

[Darkniciad]

Unless it's just really short, you shouldn't be stepping on any toes using Novels and Novellas for the category. There are some around here who believe that any story longer than three Lit pages/multi-chapter should be wholesale dumped there, regardless of genre.

You'll be trading off keeping your twist hidden for a lower readership, because the N&N category doesn't have much in the way of traffic. Since you say that you're straddling a lot of genres, that points toward the category too.

Like SR said, I don't think there's any official Lit definition. The closest thing there is to a rule is only for the survivor contest, which says that the submission has to be 7500 words long to count for points in that category.

 

[polynices]

Thank you both for those replies. It's good to have that freedom. I take Darkniciad's point that the Novels and Novellas category may not get many readers, but perhaps they'd be readers with a capacity to go more than a couple of paragraphs without an explicit sex scene. I hope so anyway.

Regards and thanks again for the tips,

- polynices

 

[innocentscribbles]

Thank you both for those replies. It's good to have that freedom. I take Darkniciad's point that the Novels and Novellas category may not get many readers, but perhaps they'd be readers with a capacity to go more than a couple of paragraphs without an explicit sex scene. I hope so anyway.

Regards and thanks again for the tips,

- polynices

I have a related question. I'm writing a story that will span four to five chapters, but the first chapter is already 15,000 words. I am working on streamlining and trimming, but I see the finished product in the 50-60,000 word range. I may separate the chapters into their own, individual submissions, but I might not. I had planned to submit the story to one category, but this forum thread makes me question if it should fall under the Novella heading.

I can only speak from my own experience, but if I am reading something and the writing style can hold my attention, I'm not dependent upon sex scenes to carry me to the next page; my preference for erotica is to read a developed story where sex may be a part of it but not necessarily the driving goal of the writing. Does the typical Lit reader require an explicit scene per page to hold attention, or is there usually more interest in development?

 

[Jake Marlow]

I've seen that many ebook publishers consider novellas to be between 10k and 25k words and then they start calling anything over that "novels," with the price going up depending on length.

I certainly don't think you need a sex scene every page, but when I am writing longer works I try to include something sexual, even if just a tease or masturbation, in every chapter.

 

[Darkniciad]

There's a readership out there for stories without a sex scene every few paragraphs. The chapters without hanky panky will probably suffer, and the readership will be lower, but there's plenty of readers out there if that's the story that you want to tell.

If the story fits another genre, you're always better off going with that one as opposed to N&N, no matter how long it is. About the only reason to use N&N is because the story crosses too many genres or to hide twists from the readers that using another category would give away.

I would certainly suggest splitting it into chapters if it's going to be 50-60k. It's much easier for a reader to come back to a story by clicking the next chapter in the series than it is to scroll through the pages of a single submission. You're looking at something in the order of 16 Lit pages or more with that length.

I have a related question. I'm writing a story that will span four to five chapters, but the first chapter is already 15,000 words. I am working on streamlining and trimming, but I see the finished product in the 50-60,000 word range. I may separate the chapters into their own, individual submissions, but I might not. I had planned to submit the story to one category, but this forum thread makes me question if it should fall under the Novella heading.

I can only speak from my own experience, but if I am reading something and the writing style can hold my attention, I'm not dependent upon sex scenes to carry me to the next page; my preference for erotica is to read a developed story where sex may be a part of it but not necessarily the driving goal of the writing. Does the typical Lit reader require an explicit scene per page to hold attention, or is there usually more interest in development?

 

[sr71plt]

60,000 words would be a novel. In the electronic world, 50,000 words would be.

 

[innocentscribbles]

Thank you for the quick responses and helpful tips!

 

[bronzeage]

Thank you both for those replies. It's good to have that freedom. I take Darkniciad's point that the Novels and Novellas category may not get many readers, but perhaps they'd be readers with a capacity to go more than a couple of paragraphs without an explicit sex scene. I hope so anyway.

Regards and thanks again for the tips,

- polynices

The Literotica Novellas and Novels category exists for stories which the plot develops in consecutive chapters.

Some writers use the same characters in multiple stories, but each story stands alone. The reader does not need to read the first on in order to understand the third one.

The number of chapters, or the word count is not really a factor. It is left up to the writer.

 

[Experiencedguy]

Just as an afterthought: If your story crosses many different genres, splitting into chapters may work to your advantage. I have seen some (enjoyable) stories that have one part submitted under loving wifes, another under gay male, and yet another under BDSM. If I find a chapter that I really like, the links on the right allow me to read the rest of the story, that I may have missed altogether if it was posted under the wrong heading (for me).

There are pros and cons no matter which way you go.

Many of us reguarly surf the new stories section. But - we only look for what sounds interesting to us. So - you may submit two identical stories with a great title. If one is under BDSM, I won't look at it. If the same title is under loving wifes, I probably would.

Good luck - and let us know.

 

[polynices]

The number of chapters, or the word count is not really a factor. It is left up to the writer.

Yes, I see what you mean. I've just had a quick scan through the Novels and Novellas list, and there are a lot of multi-chapter pieces - often quite long - though there also seem to be some stand-alone stories that only run to three or so pages. There also doesn't seem to be any practical distinction between a novel and a novella, as far as I can see. So it looks as if, as others have said, I can post pretty much anything I like in this category as long as it isn't too short. Thanks.

- polynices

 

[polynices]

If your story crosses many different genres, splitting into chapters may work to your advantage. I have seen some (enjoyable) stories that have one part submitted under loving wifes, another under gay male, and yet another under BDSM.

Yes, although that would involve giving the reader some sense of the theme, something I'm trying to avoid in this particular case - hence my interest in Novels and Novellas.

Many of us regularly surf the new stories section. But - we only look for what sounds interesting to us. So - you may submit two identical stories with a great title. If one is under BDSM, I won't look at it. If the same title is under loving wifes, I probably would.

Yes, there's a lot of overlap between categories, isn't there? I take the point that miscategorisation can kill a story in terms of readership. If there is a problem with Literotica's category system, I think it's there. If an author thinks s/he could put a story in any one of a number of categories, and then chooses a little-read category through lack of experience, for example, a good story may be ignored just because it didn't reach the right readership. I suppose that stands as an object-lesson on the importance of researching the market for one's 'product', but the results of mistaken placement can be a bit harsh at times.

- polynices

 

[driphoney]

Just as an afterthought: If your story crosses many different genres, splitting into chapters may work to your advantage. I have seen some (enjoyable) stories that have one part submitted under loving wifes, another under gay male, and yet another under BDSM. If I find a chapter that I really like, the links on the right allow me to read the rest of the story, that I may have missed altogether if it was posted under the wrong heading (for me).

There are pros and cons no matter which way you go.

Many of us reguarly surf the new stories section. But - we only look for what sounds interesting to us. So - you may submit two identical stories with a great title. If one is under BDSM, I won't look at it. If the same title is under loving wifes, I probably would.

Good luck - and let us know.

And I'm just the opposite. And if I were "tricked" into reading a story with a hidden sex ending I hate or generally dislike, I'd be hard pressed to keep my finger over the 4 or 5 button and I'd probably never read anything by that particular writer again. Like a lot of porn readers, I don't like to be surprised in unpleasant ways, like was mentioned before I think. I did that to a reader or two in one of my chapters. I got a verbal spanking in the comments section and a 1-star to put me in my place!

 

[polynices]

... if I were "tricked" into reading a story with a hidden sex ending I hate or generally dislike, I'd be hard pressed to keep my finger over the 4 or 5 button and I'd probably never read anything by that particular writer again. Like a lot of porn readers, I don't like to be surprised in unpleasant ways, ...

I take that point - and it argues against my plan to keep the reader in the dark about the way my current story ends. Funny, isn't it? In many kinds of fiction - especially short stories - an unexpected twist at the end is an absolute must; in porn/erotica, by your account (and I don't doubt you), it's a probable no-no.

- polynices

 

[driphoney]

I take that point - and it argues against my plan to keep the reader in the dark about the way my current story ends. Funny, isn't it? In many kinds of fiction - especially short stories - an unexpected twist at the end is an absolute must; in porn/erotica, by your account (and I don't doubt you), it's a probable no-no.

- polynices

I think most of us like an unexpected plot twist or surprise ending, but a sex genre twist might be a no-no. Or not, if it were really well done! I remember reading a Dr. Mabeuse story where he created this very likable criminal. I just saw him as this petty drug/mob type fella. He liked the girl, it's all positive. Then he kills her! That's the job he was on! I was like, "WTF!?!" But I gave him a 5 and I still remember that story, don't I?

 

[sr71plt]

I think most of us like an unexpected plot twist or surprise ending, but a sex genre twist might be a no-no. Or not, if it were really well done! I remember reading a Dr. Mabeuse story where he created this very likable criminal. I just saw him as this petty drug/mob type fella. He liked the girl, it's all positive. Then he kills her! That's the job he was on! I was like, "WTF!?!" But I gave him a 5 and I still remember that story, don't I?

I put a twist ending--or an extra little hop--in over three-quarters of my stories, I think. I'm not sure what you mean by "sex genre twist," though. If you mean flop over into some other category, I sometimes do that too, I think.

(The one I've just submitted for this week has a preference switch near the end.)

 

[driphoney]

I put a twist ending--or an extra little hop--in over three-quarters of my stories, I think. I'm not sure what you mean by "sex genre twist," though. If you mean flop over into some other category, I sometimes do that too, I think.

(The one I've just submitted for this week has a preference switch near the end.)

Yes, that's what I meant. If I've been reading 6 chapters of boy-girl romance, and all of a sudden a 3-some develops, I'm probably done reading the story. Of course, a lot depends on how it's done, and in this type of thing, it's common. Of course, the story usually gets put into Group and I'm warned and avoid it.

Polynices, though, from how it sounds, is going to have a lot of genre switching for many chapters. Readers who enjoy the story probably aren't going to be disturbed by whatever gets thrown at them in the end, just the opposite, if it's done well.

Same with your story, SR. People have come to expect (and hope for) the unexpected with your stories.

 

[Cold_Eyes]

I think most of us like an unexpected plot twist or surprise ending, but a sex genre twist might be a no-no. Or not, if it were really well done! I remember reading a Dr. Mabeuse story where he created this very likable criminal. I just saw him as this petty drug/mob type fella. He liked the girl, it's all positive. Then he kills her! That's the job he was on! I was like, "WTF!?!" But I gave him a 5 and I still remember that story, don't I?

Yeah, but that example has a logical and interesting conclusion to the story despite the twist. I think the real problem is when writers set a story up as romance or something and then the characters are flinging poo at each other in the last paragraph without warning.

I like to call that a Magnolia ending. That movie had a ton of different unrelated plotlines, but they were all well done. I was loving it up until the last ten minutes, waiting for them all to come together somehow. But then, after almost two hours of the movie playing itself as a serious drama, the concluding scene is [spoiler alert] a rainstorm of frogs. By far one of the biggest WTF moments in movie history.

 

[polynices]

You'll be trading off keeping your twist hidden for a lower readership, because the N&N category doesn't have much in the way of traffic.

Just a quick update for anyone who happens to be interested. Chapter 1 of my novella was posted in Novels and Novellas on 27th July and it's had only 2616 reads to date - i.e after four or five days - , which supports Darkniciad's point that the N&N category doesn't have much in the way of traffic.

Of course, there are other variables which may be making a difference. I'm deliberately giving away very little of the plot, or even the theme, in the description line, and the title, Joanna and her Lovers, is possibly a bit bland. (It's here if anybody wants to take a look:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=487607 )

On the other hand, the chapter was posted fairly near the top of the New list when it first went up, and it stayed there for longer than usual - for almost two days - due to an irregularity in the posting system, I think. So I can't complain that the story hasn't had any exposure. It's had a better chance than most stories get, in fact.

I'm going to continue with the experiment. I submitted Chapter 2 this morning. The story's looking like having four or five chapters in total at the moment.

- polynices