Happy 75th Birthday Dalai Lama!!

[Keroin]

You kooky peacenik you! Here's hoping for a free Tibet some day very soon.

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/images/1468.jpg

 

[cloud_leopard]

I second that motion! Trung kar tashi delek, Yeshin Norbu.

 

[satindesire]

He seems like such a cool dude. I want to meet him really bad.

 

[cloud_leopard]

He is a trip! I saw him in Miama several years ago. When I lived in Tibet, I regretted that I didn't have the opportunity to get down to India. Someday....

 

[Netzach]

"when I lived in Tibet" is a statement that begs a story, damn.

 

[satindesire]

"when I lived in Tibet" is a statement that begs a story, damn.

It's so much better of a story-starter than "This one time with I was drunk..."

 

[cloud_leopard]

"when I lived in Tibet" is a statement that begs a story, damn.

Lol, lots of stories came out of that. I had just graduated with an MA in Tibetan and Buddhist Studies and planned to go for a Ph.D. in Tibetan Anthropology, so I wanted to beef up my CV. I applied and was accepted to Tibet University in Lhasa, where I lived for a year and a half, until sadly, my funding ran out, and the political situation got particularly dodgy.

It was the best 18 months of my life, to date. It is an absolutely amazing place, and I highly recommend it as a vacation spot, especially late October through early December. It's not crazy cold yet, but the nomads come in from the countryside to visit the Holy city during the winter, celebrities head there on vacation, and many hotels are half-price because tourist season is over.

If I could be there right now, I would.

 

[Netzach]

Lol, lots of stories came out of that. I had just graduated with an MA in Tibetan and Buddhist Studies and planned to go for a Ph.D. in Tibetan Anthropology, so I wanted to beef up my CV. I applied and was accepted to Tibet University in Lhasa, where I lived for a year and a half, until sadly, my funding ran out, and the political situation got particularly dodgy.

It was the best 18 months of my life, to date. It is an absolutely amazing place, and I highly recommend it as a vacation spot, especially late October through early December. It's not crazy cold yet, but the nomads come in from the countryside to visit the Holy city during the winter, celebrities head there on vacation, and many hotels are half-price because tourist season is over.

If I could be there right now, I would.

China makes me so sad/mad.

 

[Keroin]

China makes me so sad/mad.

The stuff I hear from my mountaineering friends is chilling. They have video, taken a few years ago while at Everest base camp, of Chinese soldiers herding Tibetan refugees onto the glacier and then picking them off with their rifles. It's disgusting.

Free Tibet!

 

[cloud_leopard]

I used to be all for the free Tibet movement. I no longer am. There's too much that Tibetans in exile do that cause a lot of suffering to those living there.

If you speak with some of the more educated monks, some of the higher ones, which I have done, they will tell you about "collective karma". The Tibetan people have never been particularly peaceful, despite the image His Holiness and Hollywood have promoted. They were a rather violent, warlike people up until very recently. Those who understand how karma works will tell you that as a people, they have created this situation through past actions, and only if they continue to perform good actions and practice the Dharma, in spite of the terrible situation there, will it eventually become resolved. Violent actions from the outside or the inside only lead to a harder life for those inside Tibet. I've seen it with my own eyes.

While I was there, three Students for a Free Tibet members went up to the Tibetan side of Everest Base Camp. When they were there, they unfurled the Tibetan flag and banners promoting a free Tibet. They were detained, questioned, and then deported. In Tibet, however, we felt the repercussions of that small action for months. There was immediately military in the streets, monasteries were closed down, Americans and Tibetans with foreign passports were denied entrance to China and permits to Tibet. Americans, in particular, were not allowed to visit anywhere outside of Lhasa. The internet was practically non-existent, and phone calls were monitored much more frequently. And that was only what I saw. What happened to the driver and guide they were required to have to visit Base Camp? Did they lose their jobs? Were they arrested? What happened to the company they worked for and all of their families? How about all the business that was lost to the other companies because they weren't allowed to arrange tours? Tourist season is the only income many Tibetans have. How did those people make it through the winter?

There are so many ripples from such a small pebble. Being mindful of our actions, and the results of them will serve all of us much better than simply performing an action for a momentary flush of well-being.

 

[Netzach]

I used to be all for the free Tibet movement. I no longer am. There's too much that Tibetans in exile do that cause a lot of suffering to those living there.

If you speak with some of the more educated monks, some of the higher ones, which I have done, they will tell you about "collective karma". The Tibetan people have never been particularly peaceful, despite the image His Holiness and Hollywood have promoted. They were a rather violent, warlike people up until very recently. Those who understand how karma works will tell you that as a people, they have created this situation through past actions, and only if they continue to perform good actions and practice the Dharma, in spite of the terrible situation there, will it eventually become resolved. Violent actions from the outside or the inside only lead to a harder life for those inside Tibet. I've seen it with my own eyes.

While I was there, three Students for a Free Tibet members went up to the Tibetan side of Everest Base Camp. When they were there, they unfurled the Tibetan flag and banners promoting a free Tibet. They were detained, questioned, and then deported. In Tibet, however, we felt the repercussions of that small action for months. There was immediately military in the streets, monasteries were closed down, Americans and Tibetans with foreign passports were denied entrance to China and permits to Tibet. Americans, in particular, were not allowed to visit anywhere outside of Lhasa. The internet was practically non-existent, and phone calls were monitored much more frequently. And that was only what I saw. What happened to the driver and guide they were required to have to visit Base Camp? Did they lose their jobs? Were they arrested? What happened to the company they worked for and all of their families? How about all the business that was lost to the other companies because they weren't allowed to arrange tours? Tourist season is the only income many Tibetans have. How did those people make it through the winter?

There are so many ripples from such a small pebble. Being mindful of our actions, and the results of them will serve all of us much better than simply performing an action for a momentary flush of well-being.

I definitely don't think the solutions are simple or that poking China with a stick is helpful. But I do think it's reasonable to hold China responsible for its actions and its attempts to erase the culture altogether, peaceful and idyllic or clearly not. Hell, the Chinese pretty much eradicated huge swaths of their own culture, no less a loss.

 

[Keroin]

The Tibetan people have never been particularly peaceful, despite the image His Holiness and Hollywood have promoted. They were a rather violent, warlike people up until very recently.

If the requirement for a country's independence is a history free of violence then I doubt there would be a single independent nation on this planet.

Those who understand how karma works will tell you that as a people, they have created this situation through past actions, and only if they continue to perform good actions and practice the Dharma, in spite of the terrible situation there, will it eventually become resolved. Violent actions from the outside or the inside only lead to a harder life for those inside Tibet. I've seen it with my own eyes.

While I was there, three Students for a Free Tibet members went up to the Tibetan side of Everest Base Camp. When they were there, they unfurled the Tibetan flag and banners promoting a free Tibet. They were detained, questioned, and then deported. In Tibet, however, we felt the repercussions of that small action for months. There was immediately military in the streets, monasteries were closed down, Americans and Tibetans with foreign passports were denied entrance to China and permits to Tibet. Americans, in particular, were not allowed to visit anywhere outside of Lhasa. The internet was practically non-existent, and phone calls were monitored much more frequently. And that was only what I saw. What happened to the driver and guide they were required to have to visit Base Camp? Did they lose their jobs? Were they arrested? What happened to the company they worked for and all of their families? How about all the business that was lost to the other companies because they weren't allowed to arrange tours? Tourist season is the only income many Tibetans have. How did those people make it through the winter?

There are so many ripples from such a small pebble. Being mindful of our actions, and the results of them will serve all of us much better than simply performing an action for a momentary flush of well-being.

I understand what you're saying - my good friends have been travelling to Nepal and Tibet for over twenty years, they know the culture very well, they have Nepalese and Tibetan friends, they've spoken with the monks, they've dealt with the governments there - but I am still in favour of a Tibet that is not ruled by China.

 

[cloud_leopard]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a Tibet that is not ruled by China, as well. But it is up to them to learn the lessons they need to, and deal with their situation as best they can. That's not to say we, on the outside, cannot help, but it needs to be help, not hinderance.

I've thought about this a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that if Tibet had not been invaded by China, they would have naturally drifted away from their traditional culture. Because they have been told they have to leave it behind, they are holding onto it, preserving it, and we are all the better for it. That would not be occuring though, if the situation was not as it is. That's just my opinion.

 

[YourCaptor]

I don't get that lama dude. He's in a real position to do something, but what does he do, he bans fur, bans it for the few who could actually really use it.

Seriously, do something better.

 

[cloud_leopard]

He's not really in a position to do anything. He has given the majority of his political power to the Cabinet, the Kashag, and his position as political leader, is now an elected position. His power is now more in the realm of the spiritual. Not to mention the fact that his power extends over the exile community, which is fragmented, not only because of distance between groups, but also in terms of how they accept their status and how they accept the workings of their exile government.

That's not to say that many, many people don't respect him and would strive to do what he asked of them, but in all honesty, his power is limited.

 

[Netzach]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a Tibet that is not ruled by China, as well. But it is up to them to learn the lessons they need to, and deal with their situation as best they can. That's not to say we, on the outside, cannot help, but it needs to be help, not hinderance.

I've thought about this a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that if Tibet had not been invaded by China, they would have naturally drifted away from their traditional culture. Because they have been told they have to leave it behind, they are holding onto it, preserving it, and we are all the better for it. That would not be occuring though, if the situation was not as it is. That's just my opinion.

That's a really good point. I wonder if it wouldn't exhibit a kind of hybridity and border sensibility like you see in Nepal, between the cultures and the old and new, but you are probably right, and it would be abandoned in favor of the expedient.

Friends of friends of Kathmandu based expats, can't say I've been, can't say I'm not dying to go. Political stability is all relative.