Love and BDSM...

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Hopefully now we can have a proper discussion with both sides actually being recognized and heard.

I'm starting this thread because I saw a few people express how they thought it would be an interesting discussion. I'm not trying to offend anyone. So please don't feel like I'm trying to promote a "one true way" here or anything. We've had our fill of that.

Feel free to take this thread in any direction you want. I'm just trying to get the ball rolling on love and BDSM. I'm not making this thread all about me and my views or anything. (I don't want Etoile to ban me )

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A few years ago when I finally sat down and thought about who I was and what I really wanted out of a relationship, I realized that I wanted a girl to love and be my submissive. Prior to this, I used subs strictly to "get my rocks off."

Now that I know what it's like to dominate someone you love, I believe it is better. Having a loving D/s relationship only strengthens the bonds of the relationship. Me and my girl have been through some tough times in our relationship and we both think that if we didn't have a strong loving D/s relationship along with being Bf/gf, we may not have made it.

Being D/s made us feel a connection deep down. We had a bond that was strong and we were determined not to let anyone or anything break it.

Let's face it, it's not easy finding a vanilla significant other. But it's even harder to find a vanilla SO AND a BDSM SO in the same person. So when you are lucky enough to find both in someone, you hold on to that person for dear life and thank your lucky stars you found them. (at least that's what I do )

For me, it's more emotionally satisfying and fulfilling to see the woman I love doing her hardest to please me any way she can. It makes me love her that much more.

The few times me and my girl have thrown around playing with a third got me to thinking about dominating a sub that I have no feelings for and it just doesn't do anything for me. I could dominate her, but it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying or fulfilling as it is with my girl. The love and caring I have with my girl is what I want now when I dominate.

To sum up, having a loving D/s relationship with my girl is the bee's knees.

Oh. And being in a loving D/s relationship in general is the bee's knees too.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

An opposing view...

I'd like to get the ball rolling on this too, just to show that a mature *cough*sane*cough* person can acknowledge an opposing point of view without having to necessarily agree with it.

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If a Dom wants to beat a sub's ass and a sub wants a Dom to beat her ass, then why do they have to wait until they are in a loving committed monogamous relationship before the ass beating can commence?

Can't a BDSM relationship be emotionally satisfying and fulfilling without ever having to utter the "love" word?

If a BDSM relationship is full of happiness, pleasure, enjoyment, needs being met, wants being fulfilled, and all parties being content with the arrangement, then why would this relationship be viewed as lower than a loving one?

BDSM is more than just the smack of a crop against bare skin. It's the feelings and emotions that led up to that moment. It's the feelings and emotions that are being felt in that moment. And it's the feelings and emotions that will be felt after the physical moment has long passed.

Just because a BDSM relationship may not include love does not lessen the importance of the relationship. Love is only one of many factors in what can make a relationship fulfilling or satisfying for all the parties involved.

 

[justhisgirl]

This is just my opinion and I am not in any way an expert but to my way of thinking a D/s relationship may start out as just a good ass beating but some where along the way feels do tend to develop. How can you not start to atleast become smitten with your Master as you strive to be the best submissive you can be. As you give yourself over to your Master the deeper the emotional connection...but maybe that is just me...

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

This is just my opinion and I am not in any way an expert but to my way of thinking a D/s relationship may start out as just a good ass beating but some where along the way feels do tend to develop. How can you not start to atleast become smitten with your Master as you strive to be the best submissive you can be. As you give yourself over to your Master the deeper the emotional connection...but maybe that is just me...

I completely agree.

 

[justhisgirl]

I completely agree.

Like I said its just my opinion, I tried it the no strings attached way and the more I gave my self over to serve my Master the deeper the feels became until I was so deeply connected to Him that there was no going back.

 

[justhisgirl]

I completely agree.

Like I said its just my opinion, I tried it the no strings attached way and the more I gave my self over to serve my Master the deeper the feels became until I was so deeply connected to Him that there was no going back. My question to those who think you can have a no feeling exchange-How do you fully give yourself over to the other person if you don't have some kind of affection for them?

 

[CurlyKat]

I'll start with how I'm personally wired, and then go into how I can see it working out for other people. Personally, I DO get more out of a D/s relationship with someone I'm also emotionally involved with in a romantic sense. I have a hard time keeping things separated out that way, because for me to really obey and submit when things are difficult or may not necessarily be what I want to do at the moment, I have to be completely open, honest, and trust. When I'm THAT open, deep feelings will develop. There's no real way around it for me. This is also where the difference between being a submissive and bottoming is for me. Being submissive, in my case, is something that will take place within a relationship, but I *could* bottom outside of one.

I can see how many people would get a lot out of a non-relationship (or romantic relationship) set up for play. Some people HAVE to keep those two things, BDSM and love, in two separate corners because they don't quite know how to mix them in their minds, or perhaps they just make better sense individually than together. What's not for me is a long term BDSM without emotional involvement arrangement. Tried that, doesn't work. Over time, I WILL end up getting emotionally involved with whoever I'm under, and that's just messy if it's not an option. Thus my reasoning for the above paragraph.

What I can do, however, is a temporary deal, almost like a placeholder. This mostly satisfies things like impact play and other similar things that I have a hard time doing alone, but for me could never really involve actual sex (yes, I'm one of those people that the whole friends with benefits thing doesn't work out too well for either). It's a very limited form of BDSM that would focus mostly on the S&M parts of the acronym, but it helps take the edge off during the in between times. It's also not something that would keep me happy long term, since I will always crave the complete surrender that I can give within a relationship. But it can work, and I think it can be healthy, as long as everyone operates within the guidelines. Like everything else, it all boils down to communication.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I agree that even if you begin in a non-romantic relationship, the deeper the submission becomes, love will be a natural progression.

My Dominant is always talking about the fulfillment and satisfaction he feels from looking after his sub, it's his "duty" and I can see he relishes it.

Having said that, I will still get turned on and fantasize about 'non-love' BDSM - being in a harem, for example. But what I have at the moment with my Dominant, just the two of us, and feeling our Dominance and submission deepen every day, is right where I want to be

 

[where]

This is just my opinion and I am not in any way an expert but to my way of thinking a D/s relationship may start out as just a good ass beating but some where along the way feels do tend to develop. How can you not start to atleast become smitten with your Master as you strive to be the best submissive you can be. As you give yourself over to your Master the deeper the emotional connection...but maybe that is just me...

or even if you are in a relationship that doesn't involve submission but is more about the physical side of bdsm, then those feelings of love can creep up on you as well. in many ways i think it could actually accelerate the process (as opposed to a 'nilla relationship) because to have that level of trust to be tied and made vulnerable, then the emotional ties are there.

I always think the kind of rush and elation I get from some hard play feels a lot like love as well.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'll agree that for me, love makes it better.

For me, love does equal submission. I couldn't submit to someone I didn't care for like that, but I could bottom in a physical only sense.

Having only bottomed once or twice, before I met Mr, it did get to be very 'all about me' and what I wanted to do and feel, because I didn't feel that connection of doing something for the other person. I adore things like 'you can do it' and 'do it for me.' Those are the sorts of feelings that keep me going, that make me want to go further, try harder. With the other play, I didn't have any of that, just a sense of 'oh, well that was fun.'

Even in the eary stages of our relationship, things were much more 50/50 in our play. As the relationship developed, so did the power dynamic, until the time came to label the feelings and expectations were laid out.

And from there, everything has grown deeper. With that love, and respect, and trust, comes understanding each other better, the instinctual response, the perfect touch, the knowing that you wouldn't get in an exchange less emotionally charged.

 

[where]

Even in the eary stages of our relationship, things were much more 50/50 in our play. As the relationship developed, so did the power dynamic, until the time came to label the feelings and expectations were laid out.

And from there, everything has grown deeper. With that love, and respect, and trust, comes understanding each other better, the instinctual response, the perfect touch, the knowing that you wouldn't get in an exchange less emotionally charged.

how long was that process? I know it's different for everyone, but I really can't see myself ever being properly submissive. I'm too... bullish and stubborn I think. but he just smiles and looks at me like he's thinking "you say that NOW... just you wait!"

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

how long was that process? I know it's different for everyone, but I really can't see myself ever being properly submissive. I'm too... bullish and stubborn I think. but he just smiles and looks at me like he's thinking "you say that NOW... just you wait!"

It would have been a few months. I mean, we knew where it was heading, and were developing that, and I probably wouldn't have responded well if it had just landed in my lap early on.

Even know, it's still developing and growing. I don't think that ever stops.

It's also probably growing at a slower rate, giving that we're really only part time.

 

[where]

It would have been a few months. I mean, we knew where it was heading, and were developing that, and I probably wouldn't have responded well if it had just landed in my lap early on.

Even know, it's still developing and growing. I don't think that ever stops.

It's also probably growing at a slower rate, giving that we're really only part time.

hmmm... so maybe it's also to do with how frequently you spend time together?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

hmmm... so maybe it's also to do with how frequently you spend time together?

I think so. For me at least.

Sometimes I still feel all honeymoon phase'y too

 

[where]

I think so. For me at least.

Sometimes I still feel all honeymoon phase'y too

oh lord... looks like we'll both be in zimmer frames by the time I'm 'ready' to submit then!

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

oh lord... looks like we'll both be in zimmer frames by the time I'm 'ready' to submit then!

Not necessarily. Something might just flip your switch out of the blue one day, and you'll be 'ready'

 

[Bette_coquette]

I'm falling in love with my submissive as I write this. As a woman, I'm finding this confusing for me because I now want to take on a more nurturing role. When my submissive was just an object to torture and humiliate, that was easy. Now I find myself wanting to run into the kitchen and whip up an omelet for him in the morning.

I'm doomed.

 

[fuckmeat]

I'm falling in love with my submissive as I write this. As a woman, I'm finding this confusing for me because I now want to take on a more nurturing role. When my submissive was just an object to torture and humiliate, that was easy. Now I find myself wanting to run into the kitchen and whip up an omelet for him in the morning.

I'm doomed.

Nah.

Now you get to alternate with omelet making/nurturing and torture/humiliation according to your own selfish whim. That'll make for some interesting mindfuckery and still keep your sub on his toes.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I agree, sometimes after I've made dinner my Dominant orders me to stay sitting while he cleans up the dishes. He knows I'm sitting there watching him helplessly, that I think I should be the one doing the dishes, but he gets to say what goes. I can see him smirking to himself as I sit there looking like a fool not knowing what to do with myself. It's like some weirdo reverse-humiliation

 

[ecstaticsub]

I am in love with my Dominant and he is in love with me. I can't say that being in love makes it better because I don't have anything to compare it to. This is my first BDSM-type relationship. I have never bottomed for anyone either.

Having said that, I can't imagine submitting to someone I didn't love. Damn, sometimes just shutting up and obeying is hard enough when I do love him, without the love? I don't think I could do it. Our relationship is much more Domination and submission on a mental level than a physical level, even when we are physically with each other. Being in love makes everything else possible. If i didn't know 100% for sure that he loved me and valued who Iwas then the mental stuff would tear me apart.

I don't like pain. It doesn't give me any sort of head rush or subspace-ness. I endure it because he enjoys it. I get my pleasure from giving him what he wants. Enduring that kind of pain for someone who didn't love me? I just don't see me ever doing it.

This is just how I am wired. I can understand why a person would rather not be in love with their PYL/pyls. I can understand why someone would want to go to a play party and experience different sensations or activities just because it would be fun for them.

To each their own.

 

[Bandit58]

I agree, sometimes after I've made dinner my Dominant orders me to stay sitting while he cleans up the dishes. He knows I'm sitting there watching him helplessly, that I think I should be the one doing the dishes, but he gets to say what goes. I can see him smirking to himself as I sit there looking like a fool not knowing what to do with myself. It's like some weirdo reverse-humiliation

I broke my toe about 4 years ago and had to rest my foot - boy didn't I get all bent out of shape because I couldn't do my normal chores for Him - He had to order me to stay on the couch

 

[WriterDom]

Sorry, but any mention of love right now reminds me of "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"

 

[Cattypuss]

Just popping in briefly to say what a breath of fresh air this thread is!

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Sorry, but any mention of love right now reminds me of "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"

But love is different to 'Capital L love'!!

 

[hulk25]

A very good thread. Well done for starting it. I too think that a bdsm type relationship is greatly enhanced by love. I do believe that you can have satisfying bdsm encounters without love but as a natural Dominant in life short encounters do not really float my boat. For me the thrill is in a whole life approach and just dominating during play is too restrictive.

That kind of domination is difficult to get without some sort of emotional connection with a sub. Maybe there are subs out there that can allow their master to totally dominate their lives and still not feel love, maybe even have a relationship, vanilla or otherwise, but I find that the level trust needed for total daily domination is so deep that how can love not follow.

I remember talking with my very vanilla father once when I was younger about friendship and respect. He said that respect is freely given until the person does something to loss your respect but trust has to be earned. We talked a little about trust and I asked him about trusting friends with feelings, deep stuff etc. He said and I remember this very clearly "Son if you find someone who you trust that much Marry them. Thats what I did with your Mum."

So i guess that informs all my relationships and why I find D/s activity so pleasing. Not because of the inflicting punishment or pain (though that is fun) but the level of trust required from the beginning. If trust is the most important part of a romantic relationship and a BDSM one then why wouldn't they with the right person lead to love.