What does Love-Based BDSM look like, Part II?

[BLoved]

If you wished to discuss the topic, you should have posted a link to the story so people could read it, and then come back to the forum to discuss it.

Because you posted the story itself, the thread was moved to Story Feedback. Editing the original post to remove the story does not negate the fact that you originally posted in the wrong forum. This is a warning.

If you continue to post threads to the wrong forum, you will receive one more warning on this. If you do it again, you will have violated the rule three times, and will be removed.

As requested:

Love, Part I: Endings

Love, Part II: Introductions

Love, Part III: Winter Interlude

You know whats funny? Every time someone start talking about LOVE & BDSM on this board, people goin nuts. I noticed this long long time ago. Goes for me and Jockdom, ... goes for this sweet couple that simply give up and left this board after WriterDom started the shit thread and people start making stupid jokes about them.

They were nice, friendly posters, yet you made them leave. Only BECAUSE they was in love and spoke about their afection on public. Now when I think about it it's ALWAYS WriterDom starting this kind of threads.. I just wonder why.

Every time people speak about love on this board it's like pouring oil into fire. I've never figured out why is that.

Actualy yes he is [special].

Wish there was more people who would understand the meaning of true love as he does.

So the question is, why are people on a bdsm board so antagonistic towards anyone who talks of Love and BDSM?

Is there no place for those of us who embrace loving, committed relationships involving bdsm, those of us who reject the 'ethics' of a one-night stand? Those of us who reject no-strings attached encounters?

 

[WriterDom]

Good morning. Could you please post your stories or at least a link to them?

Thank you in advance.

 

[seela]

Most people, myself included, here on this board are in loving, committed relationships and thus certainly not against them. In many of your threads it seems like the message gets blurred with messenger. People aren't opposing loving BDSM, but rather the way you represent it as the only one true way, or if not as the only one true way then at least as the by far superior way to everybody. You don't have to agree with people here, but if you want to conduct at least semi constructive discussion you shouldn't put other people's relationships down. That's what gets people upset and agitated, not that you talk about love and BDSM.

There is place for people who reject sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board, but it seems like there is no place here for people who call those who practice sex and bdsm outside committed relationship dysfunctional and abusive.

I agree with a lot of what you talk about. For me BDSM is more rewarding in a loving, committed relationship, because when I know and trust my partner immensely, I can explore more aspects of my submission and experience things I wouldn't want to try with someone I didn't know through and through. My own relationship is a romantic one and I couldn't imagine myself in any other kind of a relationship, but I don't believe this is the only working model for everybody. People are different and their needs are different, too.

 

[BLoved]

Most people, myself included, here on this board are in loving, committed relationships and thus certainly not against them. In many of your threads it seems like the message gets blurred with messenger. People aren't opposing loving BDSM, but rather the way you represent it as the only one true way, or if not as the only one true way then at least as the by far superior way to everybody. You don't have to agree with people here, but if you want to conduct at least semi constructive discussion you shouldn't put other people's relationships down. That's what gets people upset and agitated, not that you talk about love and BDSM.

and yet:

You know whats funny? Every time someone start talking about LOVE & BDSM on this board, people goin nuts. I noticed this long long time ago. Goes for me and Jockdom, ... goes for this sweet couple that simply give up and left this board after WriterDom started the shit thread and people start making stupid jokes about them.

They were nice, friendly posters, yet you made them leave. Only BECAUSE they was in love and spoke about their afection on public. Now when I think about it it's ALWAYS WriterDom starting this kind of threads.. I just wonder why.

Every time people speak about love on this board it's like pouring oil into fire. I've never figured out why is that.

Apparently it is not just me.

There is place for people who reject sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board, but it seems like there is no place here for people who call those who practice sex and bdsm outside committed relationship dysfunctional and abusive.

So we're 'allowed' to reject "sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board", we're just not 'allowed' to say why.

We're not 'allowed' to stand loud and proud about why we believe what we believe, but those who reject "sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board" are encouraged to stand loud and proud about why they choose their path.

In what way does this promote diversity, or free speech?

In what way does this not favour one side as the "One True Way" while condemning anyone whose way rejects their way?

I agree with a lot of what you talk about. For me BDSM is more rewarding in a loving, committed relationship, because when I know and trust my partner immensely, I can explore more aspects of my submission and experience things I wouldn't want to try with someone I didn't know through and through. My own relationship is a romantic one and I couldn't imagine myself in any other kind of a relationship, but I don't believe this is the only working model for everybody. People are different and their needs are different, too.

And what is wrong with any other way that you choose to reject those ways?

 

[dicky911]

Most people, myself included, here on this board are in loving, committed relationships and thus certainly not against them. In many of your threads it seems like the message gets blurred with messenger. People aren't opposing loving BDSM, but rather the way you represent it as the only one true way, or if not as the only one true way then at least as the by far superior way to everybody. You don't have to agree with people here, but if you want to conduct at least semi constructive discussion you shouldn't put other people's relationships down. That's what gets people upset and agitated, not that you talk about love and BDSM.

There is place for people who reject sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board, but it seems like there is no place here for people who call those who practice sex and bdsm outside committed relationship dysfunctional and abusive.

I agree with a lot of what you talk about. For me BDSM is more rewarding in a loving, committed relationship, because when I know and trust my partner immensely, I can explore more aspects of my submission and experience things I wouldn't want to try with someone I didn't know through and through. My own relationship is a romantic one and I couldn't imagine myself in any other kind of a relationship, but I don't believe this is the only working model for everybody. People are different and their needs are different, too.

couldn't agree more, seela!

dicky

 

[seela]

So we're 'allowed' to reject "sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board", we're just not 'allowed' to say why.

We're not 'allowed' to stand loud and proud about why we believe what we believe, but those who reject "sex and bdsm outside committed relationship on this board" are encouraged to stand loud and proud about why they choose their path.

In what way does this promote diversity, or free speech?

In what way does this not favour one side as the "One True Way" while condemning anyone whose way rejects their way?

This is what I wrote:

People aren't opposing loving BDSM, but rather the way you represent it as the only one true way, or if not as the only one true way then at least as the by far superior way to everybody. You don't have to agree with people here, but if you want to conduct at least semi constructive discussion you shouldn't put other people's relationships down.

I didn't say that you're not allowed to say why you reject sex and bdsm outside committed relationship. I said that you are welcome to do so, but the way you state your opinion is such that it betlittles and often insults the people who are not in the type of relationship that you deem ideal. You are more than welcome to state your opinion and share you reasoning as to why you think so, but you shouldn't do it by berating other people's relationships. That doesn't invite open and honest discussion.

You believe that your way of handling a relationship is the ultimate superior one to everybody, not just for you. You have time and time again stated, that those who are not in a committed, loving relationship are abusers/abused, unethical, immoral, dysfunctional. This is a statement that offends people, especially as many of those who you have insulted actually are in a loving relationship but they just fail to meet your standards of a loving relationship.

People talk about love in their relationships all the time here. I have yet to see a single person on this board to say that those in a loving BDSM relationship are dysfunctional, unethical, abusive, evil or whatever, which is exactly what you have said about those who are not in a loving BDSM relationship by your standards. I have never seen anybody say that BDSM without a love is inherently better than BDSM with love.

And if you are going to say that you have been attacked because you advocate loving BDSM, I must say you are wrong. You have been attacked because you make insulting and overly generalized statements about the people who do not live up to your standards.

And what is wrong with any other way that you choose to reject those ways?

There is nothing wrong with the other ways, except that they are not for me. Just like there isn't nothing inherently wrong with cauliflower, I just don't like it. I let other people eat it, but I'll pass.

I'm simply happier in a committed, romantic relationship. I'm wired fairly monogamous and like I wrote in my previous post, I feel like I can explore certain aspects of my submission more in a committed relationship. I met a person I fell in love with, he fell in love with me and this type of relationship simply feels like the best solution for us both.

But just because I'm happiest in a romantic, loving, committed relationship, it doesn't mean that this is the right way for everybody else. This is the difference between you and I - you seem to feel pretty OK about saying that your way is the way everybody else should conduct their relationships as well.

And about the couple Biatchinfire mentioned; I only signed up here in May, but I've been reading the boards for a couple of years somewhat actively, so take what I say with copious amounts of salt. I could be wrong, but I believe she meant this one couple, who never posted anything else on the boards but little love notes to each other. Constantly and all the time, in every thread they wrote in. They weren't even talking about BDSM or loving BDSM, they were just engaging in a public kiss fest.

 

[intothewoods]

Why is the title "what does love-based bdsm look like," but the question in the OP is why are posters antagonistic to love?

In what way is equating the scene with pedophiles, rapists and abusers who are prone to violence standing "loud and proud" about love?

Is this a place to discuss what love-based bdsm looks like or not?

 

[Netzach]

I really don't bother to shit on other people's relationships provided they're not shitting on other people's in turn. If the loving couple in question needs to feel like the first people to ever discover intimacy rather than the people who feel fine *posting* about it, it's kind of nauseating.

My primary partner is a private person and I feel vaguely ill at the thought of exploiting our really intimate feelings in some way by airing them more than I already do.

I guess there's some part of me that feel icky around a generalized desire of people on the internet to show every effing thing, but that goes more for facebook than lovey dovey here.

Since the idea of this thread is to command everyone's honesty about WHY they dislike everything they dislike and other people's feelings be damned:

I find this spreading around of highly personal feelings like grief, love, true love and all that stuff incredibly *exploitative* and *manipulative* of other people's emotions and of other people who are not posting on their own behalf. Anything I experience that I'd describe as "true love" is so personal and so subjective a thing that I certainly don't need people I consider rapists abusers and creeps reading about it.

If I shuffled off the coil and I somehow metaphysically found M posting things like the OP posted - emotionally manipulative death romances about my last breaths, I'd be hitting him upside the head from the Other Side. I'd be livid.

 

[BLoved]

I didn't say that you're not allowed to say why you reject sex and bdsm outside committed relationship. I said that you are welcome to do so, but the way you state your opinion is such that it betlittles and often insults the people who are not in the type of relationship that you deem ideal. You are more than welcome to state your opinion and share you reasoning as to why you think so, but you shouldn't do it by berating other people's relationships. That doesn't invite open and honest discussion.

And how is it "honest and open" discussion if I am not to say that my reason for choosing love-based relationship is because I believe casual 'bdsm' is emotionaly abusive?

You believe that your way of handling a relationship is the ultimate superior one to everybody, not just for you.

My way is that of a straight male master.

I do not condemn love-based bdsm relationships between homosexuals, even though homosexuality is not my way.

I do not condemn love-based bdsm relationships where the woman is a mistress and the man a submissive, though that is not my way.

I do not condemn those involved in love-based vanilla relationships, such as my mother's marriage to her third husband.

So how can you claim I believe my way is "the ultimate superior one to everybody"?

I think all of these ways are superior to casual 'bdsm'.

You have time and time again stated, that those who are not in a committed, loving relationship are abusers/abused, unethical, immoral, dysfunctional.

And do we not have enough proof through their contributions to my discussions?

This is a statement that offends people

So we must not talk of abuse because someone might be offended? In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion" on the subject of abuse, or the subject of casual 'bdsm', or the subject of why someone might choose love over a no-strings-attached/one-night stand?

Do we live in a world where everyone must believe the same things? Do we live in a world where adults must be afraid to speak their minds about their beliefs? Do we live in a world where a mob must descend on anyone who disagrees with them, demonizing him for not believing in their "One True Way"? We live in a world where the tactics for convincing others involves vote-rigging, fraud, stalking and calls for someone to commit suicide?

People talk about love in their relationships all the time here. I have yet to see a single person on this board to say that those in a loving BDSM relationship are dysfunctional, unethical, abusive, evil or whatever, which is exactly what you have said about those who are not in a loving BDSM relationship by your standards. I have never seen anybody say that BDSM without a love is inherently better than BDSM with love.

Love is unethical

And if you are going to say that you have been attacked because you advocate loving BDSM, I must say you are wrong. You have been attacked because you make insulting and overly generalized statements about the people who do not live up to your standards.

I am attacked because I openly and honestly state my beliefs.

In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion"?

There is nothing wrong with the other ways, except that they are not for me. Just like there isn't nothing inherently wrong with cauliflower, I just don't like it. I let other people eat it, but I'll pass.

I'm simply happier in a committed, romantic relationship. I'm wired fairly monogamous and like I wrote in my previous post, I feel like I can explore certain aspects of my submission more in a committed relationship. I met a person I fell in love with, he fell in love with me and this type of relationship simply feels like the best solution for us both.

But just because I'm happiest in a romantic, loving, committed relationship, it doesn't mean that this is the right way for everybody else.

So it's okay to pay lip-service to casual 'bdsm' by comparing it with cauliflower, as you have done, but not okay to have more substantive reasons for disagreeing with it.

In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion"?

And about the couple Biatchinfire mentioned; I only signed up here in May, but I've been reading the boards for a couple of years somewhat actively, so take what I say with copious amounts of salt. I could be wrong, but I believe she meant this one couple, who never posted anything else on the boards but little love notes to each other. Constantly and all the time, in every thread they wrote in. They weren't even talking about BDSM or loving BDSM, they were just engaging in a public kiss fest.

She spoke of herself and several people.

Would you like to address them all and tell us why none of them were persecuted for talking of love, as she claims?

 

[intothewoods]

I really don't bother to shit on other people's relationships provided they're not shitting on other people's in turn. If the loving couple in question needs to feel like the first people to ever discover intimacy rather than the people who feel fine *posting* about it, it's kind of nauseating.

My primary partner is a private person and I feel vaguely ill at the thought of exploiting our really intimate feelings in some way by airing them more than I already do.

I guess there's some part of me that feel icky around a generalized desire of people on the internet to show every effing thing, but that goes more for facebook than lovey dovey here.

Since the idea of this thread is to command everyone's honesty about WHY they dislike everything they dislike and other people's feelings be damned:

I find this spreading around of highly personal feelings like grief, love, true love and all that stuff incredibly *exploitative* and *manipulative* of other people's emotions and of other people who are not posting on their own behalf. Anything I experience that I'd describe as "true love" is so personal and so subjective a thing that I certainly don't need people I consider rapists abusers and creeps reading about it.

If I shuffled off the coil and I somehow metaphysically found M posting things like the OP posted - emotionally manipulative death romances about my last breaths, I'd be hitting him upside the head from the Other Side. I'd be livid.

I think the question of how much we share on the internet is a really interesting one. Everyone has a different comfort level here. I think someone like JM thinks we're all nutty, but then I'm ok with talking about some things but not others. I totally get the impulse to share though. Anyway, I'm mostly interested in how this will all be thirty years from now. Will there be zero privacy or will there be some backlash? I kind of think the latter. You already see college applicants who are savvy about that.

As to posting about the intimate details of death and love, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think everyone has a right to their own grief, but I wouldn't be happy if my final moments were broadcast in a way that seems flippant. When I think about the loved ones I've lost, it's not something that I write about in a literal kind of way.

 

[seela]

And how is it "honest and open" discussion if I am not to say that my reason for choosing love-based relationship is because I believe casual 'bdsm' is emotionaly abusive?

You can say it, you have said it. Again, it's the way you say it that bugs people. It's the way you state your way of being superior (in heterosexual, monogamous MD/fs relationship context) to any other that makes people annoyed. Your way is superior to you, but it isn't necessarily superior to everybody else.

My way is that of a straight male master.

I do not condemn love-based bdsm relationships between homosexuals, even though homosexuality is not my way.

I do not condemn love-based bdsm relationships where the woman is a mistress and the man a submissive, though that is not my way.

I do not condemn those involved in love-based vanilla relationships, such as my mother's marriage to her third husband.

So how can you claim I believe my way is "the ultimate superior one to everybody"?

I think all of these ways are superior to casual 'bdsm'.

So you just think that your way is the ultimate superior one true way to every monogamous heterosexual couple, wherein the male dominates and the female submits? If the couple is monogamous, heterosexual, male dominates and female submits but they do not agree to your standard of love, you see them as inferior to you.

This is the thing that has been bugging everybody on this forum - you act as if you know what is best for everybody regardless of their situation. And everybody in this case means monogamous heterosexual males or monogamous heterosexual submissives, because that is the framework you, Bloved, know and can best relate to.

So we must not talk of abuse because someone might be offended? In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion" on the subject of abuse, or the subject of casual 'bdsm', or the subject of why someone might choose love over a no-strings-attached/one-night stand?

Do we live in a world where everyone must believe the same things? Do we live in a world where adults must be afraid to speak their minds about their beliefs? Do we live in a world where a mob must descend on anyone who disagrees with them, demonizing him for not believing in their "One True Way"? We live in a world where the tactics for convincing others involves vote-rigging, fraud, stalking and calls for someone to commit suicide?

Again, I invite you to take a look in the way you interact with people. It is ok and even encouraged to talk about abuse. It has been discussed on this very board many times over, as you have seen on CM's bumps. You can find more threads on the topics of abuse and ethics by using the search function, if you wish to read more. What makes the difference between those threads and your threads is the lack of inflammatory rhetorics and holier than thou attitude that shines through your posts.

Love is unethical

Parody. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept. I haven't read the thread completely, but the first post is very much a parody of your Love is thread.

I am attacked because I openly and honestly state my beliefs.

In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion"?

You are attacked, because you state your beliefs in an inflammatory manner. You seek to challenge and educate more than discuss. People were trying to encage in a conversation with you, but soon after you noticed that people don't completely agree with you, your generalizations went even more overboard. You have been banned and you have been run away with pitch forks from how may fora now? Don't you think there might be a tiniest bit of reason for that happenin in yourself and in your behavior as well? It has happened with many audiences, all of them not even BDSM related, so advocating casual BDSM cannot be reason for their reaction to you.

So it's okay to pay lip-service to casual 'bdsm' by comparing it with cauliflower, as you have done, but not okay to have more substantive reasons for disagreeing with it.

In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion"?

It is ok to have more substantive reasons for disagreeing with it. I, yet again, invite you to think about the way you state your opinions here and the way you have stated them on the other forums that you have been banned from. Are you seriously saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong in the way you conduct yourself on internet boards if you get the same reaction every single time despite the audience of your statements having nothing to do with the casual BDSM folk?

She spoke of herself and several people.

Would you like to address them all and tell us why none of them were persecuted for talking of love, as she claims?

I do not know who she spoke of. I could only remember that one incident, which I told you about, and I told what seemed to be the reason for what happened then. In my opinion, that is. The opinion of an outsider.

And now I have said all I'm going to say on this matter. If you want to really discuss love based BDSM, I'm open for it, but I wouldn't want to have yet another thread about the same topics that have been talked about ad nauseum (sic!).

 

[FloggingMolly]

Did she edit out Daddy2mylilgirl from the list of the love-based bdsm couples who were shunned for their PDAs, or did you?

 

[BLoved]

And now I have said all I'm going to say on this matter. If you want to really discuss love based BDSM, I'm open for it ...

You will find that discussion where Etoile moved it: the Story Feedback forum. I'm sure you will find lots of people willing to discuss it with you there.

As for your many accusations, repeating them does not make them so.

I am well aware the propaganda machine for the casual players has been working overtime, trying to turn "open and honest discussion" into "insults".

But if one cannot express their beliefs openly and honestly without being the victim of fraud, stalking, vote-rigging and invitations to commit suicide, then just how "open and honest" is the discussion?

 

[BLoved]

Did she edit out Daddy2mylilgirl from the list of the love-based bdsm couples who were shunned for their PDAs, or did you?

I did.

Anyone interested in the reason will find it here.

 

[BLoved]

It is ok to have more substantive reasons for disagreeing with it. I, yet again, invite you to think about the way you state your opinions here and the way you have stated them on the other forums that you have been banned from. Are you seriously saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong in the way you conduct yourself on internet boards if you get the same reaction every single time despite the audience of your statements having nothing to do with the casual BDSM folk?

I speak with conviction, convincingly, and with the confidence to stand up to a mob.

They do not, and worse yet, they need a mob to help them find their 'confidence'.

 

[WriterDom]

Sir, in case they ban you I wanted you to know just how much I appreciate reading your words. I've learned more about bdsm from you than I ever learned from the players in the BDSM Forum. Your struggle to be heard has been heroic and I am sure I am not the only one who is grateful to you for sticking it out for so long.

Any woman who gets you would be lucky to have such an honorable man in her life. No one who reads your writing could doubt your sincerity. Your understanding of love is awesome.

Wishing you the best of luck,
f4f

Next time you create an alt, season her a little bit, give her a few posts, and for God's sake don't lay the bullshit on this heavy and you *might* get away with it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I speak with conviction, convincingly, and with the confidence to stand up to a mob.

They do not, and worse yet, they need a mob to help them find their 'confidence'.

You should have titled this thread;

"What does a persecution complex look like?"

 

[BLoved]

Next time you create an alt, season her a little bit, give her a few posts, and for God's sake don't lay the bullshit on this heavy and you *might* get away with it.

According to the collected 'wisdom' on this forum, anyone who supports me, or has loved me, is either fiction or deluded.

I am grateful to those who have supported me in private, or who have supported me in public.

 

[WriterDom]

According to the collected 'wisdom' on this forum, anyone who supports me, or has loved me, is either fiction or deluded.

I am grateful to those who have supported me in private, or who have supported me in public.

I agree with -most- of what he's saying, and it's delievered well

Yes, there is one and she is entitled to her opinion.

flesh4fancy is you though. If you'd just admit it you'll feel better.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree with -most- of what he's saying, and it's delievered well

Yes, there is one and she is entitled to her opinion.

flesh4fancy is you though. If you'd just admit it you'll feel better.

Somehow I doubt that Bloved would come up with such a non-romantic name as "flesh4fancy".

Naw.. there are lots of women looking for bodice-ripper reading.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

According to the collected 'wisdom' on this forum, anyone who supports me, or has loved me, is either fiction or deluded.

I am grateful to those who have supported me in private, or who have supported me in public.

Nah, I think it's just me. Everyone who claims to support you is either fiction or imbecilic and most likely unworthy(under your standards) of giving you praise.

I don't doubt that a woman loved you and you destroyed her, sent her to the psych ward at the nearest hospital. Your stories are certainly fiction, that's why they're posted under BDSM Fiction.

 

[sinnocence]

Hey bloved. Do us all a favor and go away.




P.S. ~smile~

 

[Kikori]

So the question is, why are people on a bdsm board so antagonistic towards anyone who talks of Love and BDSM?

Because you're the one who brings it up with your very... unique way of discussing things.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

I haven't heard BLoved say one thing about BDSM since he's been here. It's mind boggling.

 

[fuckmeat]

I am attacked because I openly and honestly state my beliefs.

In what way does that "invite open and honest discussion"?

You are pathologically incapable of discussion. You want to be able to state your beliefs and not be challenged. What you call stating your beliefs and being attacked is what everyone else around here calls adult debate.