What does Love-based bdsm look like?

[BLoved]

I wrote "Endings" for many reasons, one of which was to illustrate the nature of love-based bdsm.

Love-based bdsm is, in many ways, no different than any life-long loving relationships. We experience the same losses and must wrestle with the consequences when a beloved dies.

Too often people get the impression from reading on-line bdsm boards that those who practice bdsm really don't care about their partners, that bdsm is nothing more than a no-strings attached one-night stand with no emotional involvement worthy of mention.

However, for a lot of us who practice bdsm, I dare say most of us, bdsm is a means by which we express our love for each other in loving, life-long committed relationships.

In my experience it is rare that death itself is ever discussed, and when it is, it is more along the lines of "what am I going to do next".

With "Endings" I wanted to address the loss itself, the emotional impact it has on the survivor.

I wanted to bring home to the reader that those of us who practice bdsm within a loving, committed relationship feel the loss just as keenly as anyone else.

We are no less human than anyone else.

Love, Part I: Endings

-------------------------------------

"Introductions" was written to illustrate the qualities that are necessary for a love-based bdsm relationship to thrive: mutual respect for our individuality and humanity, the need for honourable behaviour, compassion, patience ... selflessness.

As these qualities are essential for any loving relationship, they are no less important in a love-based bdsm relationship.

Love, Part II: Introductions

-------------------------------------

"Winter Interlude" was written for those who felt that a love-based bdsm relationship was somehow a form of 'bdsm-lite', that those who love each other are incapable of engaging in bdsm.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Because of the degree of love, trust and committment those who love are capable of engaging in any bdsm activity. Indeed, those of us who love may be more capable of engaging in any bdsm activity than those who must trust the goodwill of virtual strangers and casual 'play partners'.

And as the story illustrates, such activities have much more meaning and produce a closer union between the lovers than anything casual could accomplish.

Love, Part III: Winter Interlude

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Is there a reason that you're pasting the stories, the same one you link to in your signature, again?

 

[BLoved]

Is there a reason that you're pasting the stories, the same one you link to in your signature, again?

Several people have asked me to describe the qualities needed in a love-based bdsm relationship. I believe these three stories best illustrate those qualities.

And unlike stories posted to the other side of lit, here we can engage in a true discussion on the topic.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Several people have asked me to describe the qualities needed in a love-based bdsm relationship. I believe these three stories best illustrate those qualities.

And unlike stories posted to the other side of lit, here we can engage in a true discussion on the topic.

But that doesn't invite discussion.

You'd be better off with the first section, then point to your stories, then ask a few leading questions.

Just my opinion.

 

[BLoved]

But that doesn't invite discussion.

I'll be happy to discuss the topic with anyone who wishes to contribute to the topic.

 

[Epmd607]

this thread needs to be moved to the Story Feedback Forum.

 

[BLoved]

this thread needs to be moved to the Story Feedback Forum.

This is not a discussion on the literary merits of the stories.

This is a discussion on what qualities are required to sustain and nurture a love-based bdsm relationship.

The stories illustrate those qualities.

 

[WriterDom]

this thread needs to be moved to the Story Feedback Forum.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think most of us are way tired of your three stories and those who aren't well, there is the link in your sig line if they want to read them.

But you know all this.

 

[Epmd607]

This is not a discussion on the literary merits of the stories.

This is a discussion on what qualities are required to sustain and nurture a love-based bdsm relationship.

The stories illustrate those qualities.

You story would then be missing the vital detail for having a thread in the BDSM Talk portion of the message board. Your story contains no reference to BDSM.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'll be happy to discuss the topic with anyone who wishes to contribute to the topic.

Well, I had to go fishing for your other comments because they're drowned out by the stories (again) and that it will deter a lot of people from reading. I'll stand by my belief that they're unnecessary. In fact, I had to cut and paste the damned things into a word doc because I'm already sick of wading through the wall of text to find what you've actually said.

Anyway.

I believe that in the first 2 sections, you've not pointed out anything that we don't already know, and nothing that is bdsm specific. Yes, all those qualities are important to any relationship. That's not groundbreaking.

As to the rest.

Yes, people who love are capable of engaging in bdsm activity, but people not capable of love also can. It's simply physical activity. The amount of love experienced doesn't make a person any more or any less capable of physically performing.

For me, BDSM is the physical manifestation of our D/s dynamic, so having that emotional connection does make the physical activities better, more meaningful. But the presence or lack of BDSM does not change the fact that we still have a D/s relationship.

And because I see BDSM as a physical only thing, I can understand people who engage for only those reasons, to experience the sensations of certain activities. I don't think either is 'right' or 'better' and can see a place for both within my own life, depending on my needs and circumstances at a time.

But ultimately, I know I want a lasting relationship.

 

[the captians wench]

In the interest of promoting conversation, I would suggest that you, Beloved, simply reference the work, rather than posting it in it's entirety. A begining post of that length is rather daunting and off putting.

I rather enjoy the idea behind most of the topics you have started, how ever I have not found them easy to follow and participate in for various reasons.

Every forum is different, and finding a flow that fits each can be difficult, but if discussion truly is your desire, I would think you would invest the time in finding that flow here.

Of course all of this will probably be taken with a grain of salt as you have already expressed that I am grouped with the casual community conspiracy.

 

[BLoved]

And because I see BDSM as a physical only thing, I can understand people who engage for only those reasons, to experience the sensations of certain activities. I don't think either is 'right' or 'better' and can see a place for both within my own life, depending on my needs and circumstances at a time.

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

An interesting point of view.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Epmd607]

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

How do you qualify better or worse? That's where you really fail. How is there comparative value? BDSM has nothing to do with someone watching their mate die. BDSM is just a set of sex practices.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

An interesting point of view.

Care to elaborate?

*points to the part where I said I view BDSM as a physical only thing*

I separate that from your M/s, or my D/s relationship.

Being with your partner as they die of cancer has nothing to do with bdsm, and everything to do with the M/s relationship.

 

[BLoved]

*points to the part where I said I view BDSM as a physical only thing*

I am reminded of Aesop's fable regarding the Grasshopper and the Ant.

I separate that from your M/s, or my D/s relationship.

A Master/slave relationship has nothing to do with bdsm?

Care to elaborate?

 

[the captians wench]

*points to the part where I said I view BDSM as a physical only thing*

I separate that from your M/s, or my D/s relationship.

Being with your partner as they die of cancer has nothing to do with bdsm, and everything to do with the M/s relationship.

Or just a relationship in general.

My mother nursed my step father, helped to make his final days as comfortable as humanly possible, changed and washed the bloody sheets as he died (from cancer) in the house we had called a home for 5 of the 15 years they were together.

I've seen first hand what love is, what love means, and how much love can hurt, and none of it had anything to do with BDSM in any shape or form.

 

[BLoved]

BDSM has nothing to do with someone watching their mate die. BDSM is just a set of sex practices.

And I am sure for a lot of people that is all it is: thrill-seeking.

But that is not what it is for a love-based bdsm relationship, as the stories illustrate quite clearly.

 

[Seurat]

Originally Posted by Lizzie_Borden
And because I see BDSM as a physical only thing, I can understand people who engage for only those reasons, to experience the sensations of certain activities. I don't think either is 'right' or 'better' and can see a place for both within my own life, depending on my needs and circumstances at a time.

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

An interesting point of view.

Care to elaborate?

Shouldn't have to. Lizzie Borden made a distinction between two aspects of the relationship. You should have read the rest of the post.

Yes, people who love are capable of engaging in bdsm activity, but people not capable of love also can. It's simply physical activity. The amount of love experienced doesn't make a person any more or any less capable of physically performing.

For me, BDSM is the physical manifestation of our D/s dynamic, so having that emotional connection does make the physical activities better, more meaningful. But the presence or lack of BDSM does not change the fact that we still have a D/s relationship.

There exists and is described two parts to the relationship: the emotional bart, and the purely physical part.

I don't think either is 'right' or 'better' and can see a place for both within my own life, depending on my needs and circumstances at a time.

That should answer your...

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

...question, should you decide to define the relationship between 'master' and 'slave' in your question. If you can see things as seperate, than the healthy person could be in a loving relationship and care for the well being of another person as a person, and not merely as a non-person trapped in a abusive master/slave relationship. In a caring relationship, there would be grief, denial, etc. as the survivor coped with the loss. This would not be a facet of BDSM, though, and of the care instead.

Without the caring relationship, the master in question would only be concerned for purely selfish reasons; i.e. how would he replace the slave in a situation where the slave succumbed to the cancer, or otherwise left him. I would expect a selfish person such as this to be immediately (most likely within days) searching out out a replacement slave, most likely through (in this day and age) through online personals. In relation to your own writings, I think that the 'master' in question here is a proponent of 'abusive bdsm'.

What kind of master is it that still sees himself as a 'master' and his lover as a 'slave', instead of as a friend and caregiver to a person in need? There is a time for different aspects of the relationship, should they actually exist.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

A Master/slave relationship has nothing to do with bdsm?

Care to elaborate?

That's not what I'm saying.

I said that they are separate entities. The emotional relationship and the physical expression. Yes, they are usually found hand in hand, but that is not always the case. People can have the physical without the emotional. And therefore can have the emotional without the physical.

If that were not the case, then any time you're not engaged in bdsm activity, then you are also not a Master/Dominant or a slave/submissive. And we know that to be patently untrue.

Being with someone in a commited relationship, being with them when they die, has nothing to do with any form of activity you might undertake, and has everything to do with you as people. As a Master, as a slave. The emotional relationship that you have.

I also realise that not everybody will have the same view on the splitting of emotional and physical aspects as I do, but that's how I see it, and how I express it.

 

[intothewoods]

So a master standing by his slave as she fights terminal cancer is no "better" than a thrill-seeking no-strings attached one-night stand?

We are all people.

 

[BLoved]

There exists and is described two parts to the relationship: the emotional bart, and the purely physical part.

I am sure there are many people who compartmentalize their emotional intimacy from physical intimacy: cheating spouses come to mind.

I don't expect casual players will understand how those involved in love-based bdsm do not compartmentalize their feelings from the act of making love, nor do I expect they will understand how the bdsm dynamic between two lovers is much more intense than what one would expect from those who don't love their 'play partners'.

Perhaps I should just let you folks ramble on until someone comes along who does understand.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I am sure there are many people who compartmentalize their emotional intimacy from physical intimacy: cheating spouses come to mind.

I don't expect casual players will understand how those involved in love-based bdsm do not compartmentalize their feelings from the act of making love, nor do I expect they will understand how the bdsm dynamic between two lovers is much more intense than what one would expect from those who don't love their 'play partners'.

Perhaps I should just let you folks ramble on until someone comes along who does understand.

But that's not what we've been talking about here.

We're talking about how those feelings still exist when you're not making love, when you're just being 2 people together.

 

[BLoved]

But that's not what we've been talking about here.

We're talking about how those feelings still exist when you're not making love, when you're just being 2 people together.

You've been saying a lot of people (aka casual players) compartmentalize their feelings from sex.

I've been trying to tell you that is not what happens in a love-based bdsm relationship.

Sex only intensifies those feelings, as do a lot of other non-sexual activities.

The hallmark of a love-based bdsm relationship is the selflessness felt by both partners towards the other.

There is no need for thrill-seeking with virtual strangers ... we never get bored of our beloved.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

You've been saying a lot of people (aka casual players) compartmentalize their feelings from sex.

I've been trying to tell you that is not what happens in a love-based bdsm relationship.

Sex only intensifies those feelings, as do a lot of other non-sexual activities.

The hallmark of a love-based bdsm relationship is the selflessness felt by both partners towards the other.

There is no need for thrill-seeking with virtual strangers ... we never get bored of our beloved.

No.

I say that bdsm/sex is the physical expression of your relationship/love, not that those feelings get bundled away when you're playing/making love.

Now, please. Do you actually want to try and talk about love based bdsm relationships, or do you want to divert it back to your pet topic?

Let me know now, so I can know whether to continue talking with you or not. Thanks.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I really don't think you are talking about BDSM. I think all your posts/threads are just about love and relationships.

I bet if you removed the words BDSM, Master, slave, submissive, etc from your posts everyone would think you were just talking about love and relationships in the vanilla world.

In your 'tips for submissives' thread, all those tips could easily be applied to women who use mainstream online dating sites. Even your 'ethics of BDSM' thread, you mostly talk about one night stands and no strings attached.

Even in this thread you talk about "making love" and that can be applied to everyone in a relationship.

Heck, even in your BDSM personal ad you barely talk about BDSM.

I don't think you really care about BDSM.

you just have this deep seeded need to spread the word about being in a loving relationship and those who aren't, you make your enemies.

you want to be a martyr for love.