Lost

[Shaq]

I saw someone raise this question


-If the MIB could suddenly be killed (Dues Ex Machina. I've heard some say it was the cork, some say Jacob disappearing some say Jack being passed the torch) what was the danger in letting him off the stupid island?


Sure he killed people but so did Ben, Widmore and if you believe what they said earlier Jacob ordered them to do much of what they did.


So why not just let him off the island?

 

[Shaq]

I've seen the repeated phrase "the show was about the people not the plot"


It was about people AND plot.


No question Sawyer, Jack, Locke and Ben are great characters.

But if the show were about the Jack, Sawyer, and Kate love triangle alone it would have competed with Days of Our Lives only.


The fact that these characters were on a supremely mysterious island was part of it.

I think that a lot of people are buying the line the writers are putting out. It's about people only and not plot yet the plot was what they used to hook people on for 6 years.

If it was always about people mysteries like the numbers have no relevance at all.

The Mysterious Numbers=20x more interesting than if Claire, Chaaaaaaaaaley and the baaaayby end up together.

I wanted to know what the fucking numbers meant more than if Charlie sticks his driveshaft in Claire.

 

[mothership]

I saw someone raise this question


-If the MIB could suddenly be killed (Dues Ex Machina. I've heard some say it was the cork, some say Jacob disappearing some say Jack being passed the torch) what was the danger in letting him off the stupid island?


Sure he killed people but so did Ben, Widmore and if you believe what they said earlier Jacob ordered them to do much of what they did.


So why not just let him off the island?

I think they could have. At that point, for Jack, I think it was revenge.

 

[HB1965]

I saw someone raise this question


-If the MIB could suddenly be killed (Dues Ex Machina. I've heard some say it was the cork, some say Jacob disappearing some say Jack being passed the torch) what was the danger in letting him off the stupid island?


Sure he killed people but so did Ben, Widmore and if you believe what they said earlier Jacob ordered them to do much of what they did.


So why not just let him off the island?

My theory: Because when the original MIB became the smoke monster he actually died and he became a vehicle of the evil. Since they were trying to prevent the evil from leaving he had to stay.

 

[Beco]

I saw someone raise this question


-If the MIB could suddenly be killed (Dues Ex Machina. I've heard some say it was the cork, some say Jacob disappearing some say Jack being passed the torch) what was the danger in letting him off the stupid island?


Sure he killed people but so did Ben, Widmore and if you believe what they said earlier Jacob ordered them to do much of what they did.


So why not just let him off the island?

Seems like everyone killed someone at some point on that show....

 

[JinXed]

Mib was still the smoke monster - why would they want that off the island and let out into the rest of the world?

It isn't that he couldn't be killed- but that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill one another because of the rule.
Plus when others had tried to get people to kill MIB they all said not to let him talk to them first - remember how that guy Dogan gave Sayid the knife and told him to kill MIB but that he couldn't allow him to speak to him first? Kate "I saved a bullet" walked up on him and shot him, before he spoke to her.
Just like their adoptive mother - she'd lived there for ages and didn't die. Until MIB snuck up on her and stabbed her from behind. Obviously this is all my opinion but it fits.


I'm puzzled as to why everyone expected there to be all of these answers. It's almost as if those who did never actually watched the show. There were answers - just not everyone likes them. lol
Remember the argument Man of Science and Man of Faith?
Even if they'd taken the time to explain all that everyone wanted explained people still wouldn't have been satisfied.


The one real disappointment that I had. No Mr. Eko.
also did anyone else notice that when Sawyer was at the hospital, just when he was re-meeting Juliet, he was trying to get an Apollo candy bar?

 

[Beco]

Thank the lord for Tivo, all that slow motion and stopping the action.

I noticed the guy who unloaded Christian's coffin from the truck at the church, where Desmond so kindly signed for it. The name on his jumpsuit said "Bocklin."

I googled it and it happens to be the name of a Swiss painter responsible for a piece of art entitled Isle of the Dead.

 

[yogiforlife]

Mib was still

It isn't that he couldn't be killed- but that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill one another because of the rule.
Plus when others had tried to get people to kill MIB they all said not to let him talk to them first - remember how that guy Dogan gave Sayid the knife and told him to kill MIB but that he couldn't allow him to speak to him first? Kate "I saved a bullet" walked up on him and shot him, before he spoke to her.
Just like their adoptive mother - she'd lived there for ages and didn't die. Until MIB snuck up on her and stabbed her from behind. Obviously this is all my opinion but it fits.

Thats certainly one way of looking at it but as far as I'm concerned, once the light was put out, it changed MIB. He told Jack he was wrong, as soon as he bled, Jack said, "guess you were wrong too".

I think I'm done now. I loved this show, one of my favorites of all time. I was more than happy with the finale, far more than I thought I would be or have been with other shows wrap-ups. I have no interest in coming on here and listening to people whine and complain, berate the entire show and debate what should or should not have happened. People are certainly entitled to their opinions and this is the forum to voice them, I just have no interest in hearing it now that its over.

 

[Image]

Thank the lord for Tivo, all that slow motion and stopping the action.

I noticed the guy who unloaded Christian's coffin from the truck at the church, where Desmond so kindly signed for it. The name on his jumpsuit said "Bocklin."

I googled it and it happens to be the name of a Swiss painter responsible for a piece of art entitled Isle of the Dead.

Cool! And that's probably why I'll go back and watch it again. There's so many deliberate pieces I'm sure I missed.

This time I'm SURE I'll see god ~laughs~

 

[PrettyPosie]

Personally, I loved the finale and it was everything it was suppose to be, to me.

They answered a lot, not everything, but I'm content with being able to draw my own conclusions and speculate and wonder. I do not need to be force fed a bunch of fancy bullshit and have a writer hold my hand through a story; I'm a big girl and can make the final jumps by myself and come up with an answer that satisfies ME. Not having every answer does not make it suck for me.

I do not believe they were all dead. Anybody who listened to the dialogue would know they weren't all dead on the island and they weren't dead the whole time. Everything that happened, the crash, the time travel, everything really happened that was on the island. And the island was this place where all this crazy shit happened. All of that was real.

The end with this final season and all the flash sideways was an alternate reality that they created after they died that you can call the afterlife(whatever religion you are). And there was no time in this place, it was irrelevant. And everyone that was there had died at different times and the reason you'd know this is because Ben and Hurley are talking near the end and when Ben tells him "You were a great number one" and Hurley says, "You were a great number two." which lets you know that they survived long after Jack died at the very end.

And Jack's father pretty much explained the whole time thing, whether they died before or they died after this is the place that they came together. And they wanted to find each other because they went through these things together and they wanted to move on together to whatever was after that. So the island wasn't Purgatory; if anything, the alternate reality was the Purgatory, a holding place before they could all move on together.

 

[HB1965]

And Jack's father pretty much explained the whole time thing, whether they died before or they died after this is the place that they came together. And they wanted to find each other because they went through these things together and they wanted to move on together to whatever was after that. So the island wasn't Purgatory; if anything, the alternate reality was the Purgatory, a holding place before they could all move on together.

I have to agree with that. I think that's made very clear.

 

[Shaq]

Mib was still the smoke monster - why would they want that off the island and let out into the rest of the world?

It isn't that he couldn't be killed- but that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill one another because of the rule.
Plus when others had tried to get people to kill MIB they all said not to let him talk to them first - remember how that guy Dogan gave Sayid the knife and told him to kill MIB but that he couldn't allow him to speak to him first? Kate "I saved a bullet" walked up on him and shot him, before he spoke to her.
Just like their adoptive mother - she'd lived there for ages and didn't die. Until MIB snuck up on her and stabbed her from behind. Obviously this is all my opinion but it fits.


I'm puzzled as to why everyone expected there to be all of these answers. It's almost as if those who did never actually watched the show. There were answers - just not everyone likes them. lol
?

I assure you the people upset at the lack of answers watched the show as much as you.

It became a pure love story and not the mesh of sci fi, suspense (I remember during the first seasons lost was kinda creepy in a good way) comedy AND drama and became pure drama in the form of romance.

I get your explanation about Smokie but YOUR explanation is better and more coherent than the one the producers put out. It's like you're making the best sense possible out of just plain inconsistent story telling.

Like "The Rules".

Ben couldn't kill Widmore because of the Rules as well. This was just glossed over.

I don't mind the love ending. I think if they'd done that in conjunction with a coherent explanation it would have been the best tv series of all time.

But the fact they are treating the whole romance thing as "Proof it was a character driven show and the love of these character is all they ever mattered" is hogwash.

The show's popularity was due in NO small part to its mysteries which it answered inconsistently and poorly if at all.

 

[Shaq]

My overall conclusion are

-Show with a great premise that can't be discounted for some of its pioneering aspects. The way it molded Television, Video Games and a multimedia experience should be noted.

-One of the best premise driven dramas ever. It supposed some of the best mysteries Tv has ever seen but like many great tv mysteries before it it couldn't deliver.

And the reasons why


1. The audience was too smart. I SWEAR purgatory was the original plan at the start of the series but everyone guessed that after the first episode so the rest of time was spent just pulling ideas out of the ass while trying to figure out what to do since the original ending was guessed so early.

2. Trying to turn the series into mash. With the exception of some other flashbacks and the solid season finale season 3 was a complete waste and utter filler.

Forming mystery and characterization was what flashbacks did early but then they just became used as filler.

I think with a coherent plan from season 4 onward the series still could have been saved. But too much time was spent with things no one found interesting in the show's second half (The buried atom bomb for instance was just stupid) and not enough time was spent fleshing those 2nd half things that were interesting.

(Sure they "explained" Jacob but there was a potential for so much more. The atom bomb had more to do with the ending than jacob and I think that was a mistake)

 

[PrettyPosie]

@Shaq: I really wish you would stop repeating yourself everytime someone states their own opinion on the thing and saying they liked it. Nobody is going to offer you an explanation that is satisfactory to all the questions you still have; you're just going to call it "hogwash" anyway because it didn't come from the writers' own mouths. We get it now; you think it had good moments, was a great idea and story with great mystery, but overall sucked and could have been better with less mushy focus and season 3 was a disaster in your opinion. I think we all understand your opinion about that now. Thank you.

 

[Shaq]

@Shaq: I really wish you would stop repeating yourself everytime someone states their own opinion on the thing and saying they liked it. Nobody is going to offer you an explanation that is satisfactory to all the questions you still have; you're just going to call it "hogwash" anyway because it didn't come from the writers' own mouths. We get it now; you think it had good moments, was a great idea and story with great mystery, but overall sucked and could have been better with less mushy focus and season 3 was a disaster in your opinion. I think we all understand your opinion about that now. Thank you.

I'm here to discuss my feelings as well.

If you understand my opinion that's great!

I have tons more to reinforce it

If you would like to express why you liked it more c'est la vie

but I'm not going to censor myself just because I have a 1000 reasons why the finale sucked and some of you have a 1000 reasons why it didn't.

I'm on reason #568....



Seasons Finales.


The Series finale was the most inconsistent. All of the other (hella excellent) season finales largely dealt with the plot. The hatch season one, the magnetic thing in season 2, the first flash forward season 3 etc


The only finale that was "character driven" was the last one. Now I cannot remember a season finale that was lamblasted. This was the first finale that even came close to being debated with regards to quality and purpose. I think that means something.

The "it's always been about the characters" just isn't true. They definitely MADE it about the characters by the end but that line that it has always been about whether or not Sayid and Shannon hook up just isn't right.

It's been about will they push that goddamn button!?

Who the fuck is that in the coffin?

Pretending those weren't the main questions people asked is a bit of a history rewrite.

 

[PrettyPosie]

but I'm not going to censor myself just because I have a 1000 reasons why the finale sucked and some of you have a 1000 reasons why it didn't.

That's just it, they're the same reasons over and over; inconsistencies, plot-driven versus character-driven, season finales ftw, etc. You've said all of this before. I don't care if you don't like it, but it's annoying when you keep saying the same thing over and over and it's a bit spammy.

 

[Byron In Exile]

"Jacob being who he is, I expected to be a little more surprised. You're sort of the obvious choice, don't you think?"

"He didn't choose me. I volunteered."

"I assume you're here to stop me?"

"I can't stop you. In fact I want to go with you."

"I'm sorry, Jack, I think you're a little confused about what I came here to do."

"No, I'm not. You're going to the far side of the bamboo forest, to the place I've sworn that I'll protect. And then you think you're going to destroy the island."

"I think?"

"That's right. Because that's not what's gonna happen."

"What's gonna happen, Jack?"

"I'm gonna kill you."

"And how to you plan to do that?"

"That's a surprise."

 

[Shaq]

That's just it, they're the same reasons over and over; inconsistencies, plot-driven versus character-driven, season finales ftw, etc. You've said all of this before. I don't care if you don't like it, but it's annoying when you keep saying the same thing over and over and it's a bit spammy.

It's not spammy.



Another thing was brought to my attention.

If it is as some are saying about the characters and not the island then the damn smoker monster was right!

It was just a stupid island. If Jack and Kate would have been equally as awesome if the entire series happened in an abandoned mcdonalds they could have just given smokie what he wanted and let him off the island.

Poor Smokie was like the modern day Trix rabbit.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It's not spammy.



Another thing was brought to my attention.

If it is as some are saying about the characters and not the island then the damn smoker monster was right!

It was just a stupid island. If Jack and Kate would have been equally as awesome if the entire series happened in an abandoned mcdonalds they could have just given smokie what he wanted and let him off the island.

Poor Smokie was like the modern day Trix rabbit.

Please go away.

 

[DéjàNu]

Please go away.

he cant he is stuck on Lit

well maybe if we find the plug...

 

[Byron In Exile]

That had to have been the most tremendous ending to a television series I've ever seen.

I only had a bit of a problem with the very last ten or twelve minutes.

All the recognition/reunion moments were so moving, but when it came to Jack and Kate, the potential to be the most moving of all, there wasn't anything. They just sat in church pews and everything went white.

I would have cut the "white light" spiritual stuff, had Jack and Kate remember everything, and had everyone continue on with their lives, but with the memories of everything that had happened on the island.

And, yes, that would have split reality in two. But, strange though it might seem, I would have found that a satisfying outcome.

 

[Saint Peter]

I like the way How Its Made ends every week.

A nice product. Maybe a golf tee or a bowling ball all shiny and perfect. I can turn my TV off and sleep soundly.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I like the way How Its Made ends every week.

A nice product. Maybe a golf tee or a bowling ball all shiny and perfect. I can turn my TV off and sleep soundly.

Are you... twolling me?

 

[Bert Notorius]

there are a bunch of people with holes in their lives today.

what I saw of it was ok.

pretty ballsy of a network to still embrace spiritual themes.

 

[Wrong Element]

I saw someone raise this question


-If the MIB could suddenly be killed (Dues Ex Machina. I've heard some say it was the cork, some say Jacob disappearing some say Jack being passed the torch) what was the danger in letting him off the stupid island?


Sure he killed people but so did Ben, Widmore and if you believe what they said earlier Jacob ordered them to do much of what they did.


So why not just let him off the island?

There was always going to be some tension between those who saw Lost primarily as sci-fi, and those who mostly watched for the adventure and human interest. This season, and especially the last episode, really sided heavily with the latter.

I didn't expect an answer for everything, but I did think the show would grapple a bit more with the questions that seemed very important for several seasons. I think the biggest loose end was that at least in my view, they never really established that what Jacob believed about the importance of the island was actually true; in fact, the finale seemed to argue for the opposite. If the Man in Black couldn't leave the island until Desmond had switched off its whatever, but then he lost all his superpowers once that happened, why was it so important to keep him bottled up there? And once he was dead, why did the island still need to be "protected" at all, and from whom?

For five years the island was built up as this place on earth where all sorts of inexplicable things happened, and then they remained inexplicable this season because the producers turned Lost into a struggle between good and evil, and imaginary and "real."

I loved the show and didn't hate the ending, but I was hoping for more.