Story Discussion: April 30 2010. Synopsis of 'Captured Bearer' by sunandshadow

sunandshadow

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I think it's my turn; if I'm early just ignore this until the right day, if I'm late I apologize. :rose:

Most important thing - this is not a story, it is a synopsis which I would like to develop into a story. I am not looking for critique on grammar, spelling, or any of that. I know my sentences tend to be too long. What I am looking for is reactions to the plot and suggestions to improve it, because plotting is my weak area. Do you find the plot interesting? Do you think it will make a good story? Does the plot have a complete, logical, and exciting structure? Does anything seem unbalanced, contrived, or missing? The ending in particular, does it sound satisfying and pleasing?

If there's any part of the synopsis that you don't understand, I'll be happy to clarify. :cattail: I'd actually like to develop a whole series of stories about this 3-gender species; I've got several of these synopses, I just picked one for this critique opportunity. So if you happen to have an idea for what else you would like to see done with them, I love suggestions.

The txt version is below, or you can download a more nicely formatted rtf version by clicking the link.
http://home.comcast.net/~wickeddelite/capturedbearer.rtf


Captured Bearer - Synopsis of a 3-gender erotic romance, by sunandshadow 2009
Tags: Incest, Impregnation, Pregnancy, Bisexual, m/m/f, 3-gender species, fantasy


3-Gender Species Background Info: The characters in this story are all members of a non-human species which has 3 genders. The genders are: bearer, layer, and seeder. All 3 are necessary for reproduction and contribute 1/3 of the genes to a child. They are triploid if you care about the genetics. They do not have sex chromosomes, gender is decided randomly before birth.

Bearers are the ones who get pregnant; they are plump and curvy on average. They don't produce egg cells like a human female, actually they have a sort of sperm which lives continuously in their womb and fertilizes any egg placed there. They do not menstruate or have heat cycles, except that having an egg placed into their womb causes them to be extra horny for about 3 days. If they have sex with a seeder while they have a layer's egg in their womb, that's how pregnancy results.

Layers are the tallest and most muscular, so they basically look like superheros, wrestlers, football players, etc. They have an ovipositor - it looks like a large penis but is hollow, it is used for delivering a fairly large egg package into the bearer's womb. They do not have balls. They produce an egg once a month and go into heat until they expel the egg (1-3 days). Possibly their ovipositor (ovi for short) flares like a horse penis.

Seeders are basically male. They are short and slender and pretty, basically bishounen. The smaller solid penis of a seeder can fit inside the hollow ovi of a layer, and the two can have sex that way (sorta like m/m docking), but normally a seeder has regular m/f type sex with a bearer.

Two other things: Cursewhites - a bigoted mage at some point cast a worldwide spell that all children of incest are cursed with white hair which cannot be dyed or magicked a different color. And bestials – anthro children produced by using magic to create a person/animal hybrid. Note there is no bestiality in this story.


Captured Bearer synopsis:

Lieann is a cursewhite seeder nobleman who owns a castle. He has a bestial layer 2/3 brother Ravennin (because basically their mother and father the previous nobles were perverts, lol, the conception of these two would be a whole erotic story of it's own). Lieann is a forceful strategist, which makes a nice ironic combo with his slender somewhat feminine appearance. Ravennin is ashamed of his own existence and parents' perversity, so he's kinda brooding and quiet with a tendency to blush. They're involved in some sort of skirmish with the neighboring nobility. Lieann has been in love with Rav for years, but Rav refuses to be involved in incest and is a virgin, mainly because he has no self-confidence. He hates the way their parents set them up to get tormented. Ravennin thinks that since he is 1/3 animal he thinks no one would ever willingly take him as a mate (Lieann doesn't count).

Lieann's soldiers capture Merru, a bearer officer of the neighboring faction. Should I start with the captive being presented to Lieann, or start with her being tricked and captured? Maybe Lieann has one of his people pretend to be a spy for Merru, and uses a combination of deception and a magical trap to capture Merru. If I have a bit from Merru's POV before she is captured, I can show that she's sexually frustrated because she can't show favoritism (or sully her reputation which she'll need if she wants to marry well later?) by taking a lover or two from among her troops. On the other hand it will make it take longer to get to the first sex scene.

Lieann wants to demoralize Merru's captured troops and take Merru, a dangerous tactician, out of the war but not be bothered with keeping her prisoner forever; he decides to neutralize Merru as an enemy by having his soldiers get her pregnant. It will also disgrace her to bear a child of the enemy, or she might even change sides. Since Lieann doesn't care who knocks Merru up, and knows she will be easier to deal with if she is willing, he says if she cooperates with this plan she can pick the layer to provide the egg for her child from among his soldiers.

Merru isn't really opposed to getting pregnant, but is not pleased at the idea of being a single mother or possibly being raped. She thinks that of the soldiers who captured her, the bestial handled her gently and didn't make any lewd remarks, he even blushed. So she asks if he's available as a choice. Lieann boggles that the bearer picked his brother. Because he loves his brother in a caring way, not just a lustful way, he thinks having a lover might be really good for his brother. But he's not entirely benevolent, instead he's fascinated by the new possibilities he sees in this situation.

Lieann says he will offer her a second deal – he will give her to Ravennin as a sex toy, but Ravennin might resist this arrangement because he's an honorable man and wouldn't want to sleep with her if she was being forced into it. If she can seduce Ravennin and bring his egg back to Lieann and let him fertilize it, he will name the child his heir instead of sending Merru back to her own people as a single mother of an enemy child. (This cursewhite nobleman has the opposite attitude of the one in the previous concept – people already call him Lord Cursewhite, he likes the idea of starting a dynasty by having a cursewhite heir he could pass the title down to. He doesn't at this point really have any personal attraction to the bearer, that develops later when he begins to understand her personality.)

Lieann reluctantly confesses that he has had a crush on Rav for a long time, but Rav already rejected him and dislikes him; this makes Merru's heart go out to him and makes her want to do as he wishes. Lieann warns Merru not to mention his name to Ravennin because it will get a negative reaction (specifically Rav might reveal that he is Lieann's brother, which might make Merru refuse to bear a cursewhite child). Merru thinks having her child be nobility is a great deal, and feels sympathetic for the nobleman's unrequited love. She's attracted to him too, and likes the idea of being his lover also. Lieann wants a bit of reward for himself too – he doses Merru with a lust potion, chains her naked in a room where he can watch, then summons Rav and springs the situation on Rav as a surprise.

So, Lieann calls in his brother. They have a few taut, bitter moments which exemplify Rav's mournful/fearful rejection of his brother's attraction. The cursewhite nobleman denigrates himself a bit to put his brother at ease, then tells him he's giving the bestial this captive bearer as a present. Ravennin boggles at drugged naked Merru. Then Lieamm says the only price is that Ravennin has to let him watch the first time he takes her. Lieann points out how this is very minor compared to what he actually wants, and guilt-trips the bestial into agreeing. So Rav shyly has sex with the bearer in front of his brother. Rav doesn't have an egg at this time of the month so it's not immediately an issue. Then Lieann gives Rav the key so he can free Merru from her bonds and take her home with him.

Merru doesn't think it is literally true that Rav hates Lieann, because she's watched them interact, and heard Rav pondering why Lieann would give Merru to him (and not be jealous?) Merru realizes with a burst of sympathy that Lieann must be unrequitedly in love with Ravennin. When she asks him if this is so, he admits it, and says that's why he knows for sure Rav won't be willing to be a co-parent to Lieann, because Rav already said specifically that he was repulsed by the idea of having any kind of romantic or personal involvement with Lieann. But, Lieann reassures Merru, Rav is clearly in love with her and will undoubtedly forgive her for having accidentally, or by Lieann's trickery, let Lieann be the one to fertilize the egg.

Merru is impressed by how generous Lieann is acting toward someone who continues to reject him; Merru was attracted to Lieann anyway because he is exotic looking and it was his military brilliance that resulted in her capture, but now she decides that she definitely wants him to be the sire of her children, wouldn't want any other seeder even if Rav had a specific different one in mind. Lieann meanwhile finds it strange to actually be able to talk about his unrequited love for Ravennin, much less get a sympathetic response. But he's not in love with Merru yet because he thinks she wouldn't be sympathetic if she realized he was trying to trick her into conceiving a cursewhite child.

Fortunately for Merru, her natural curiosity and desire to help Lieann's romantic pain prevent her from leaving well enough alone. She finds a neutral way to ask what Rav's opinion of Attra is, and Rav says he's loyal to his brother. Merru is startled and questions this – Rav explains that they don't look alike because they are two thirds brothers, not full brothers. Merru buttons her lip and changes the subject, to give her time to contemplate the somewhat shocking idea that Lieann has asked her to help him have a child with his brother. But the idea of being pregnant with a cursewhite child strikes Merru as really hot, because she's kinky like that.

But there's a problem; Ravennin refuses to give Merru his egg at all, and it turns out that he believes his life growing up as a bestial was so bad that he thinks it would be unpardonably cruel to create any more bestial children – in other words he never intends to have children with anyone, even though he loves Merru and wants to marry her. Hurt because she really wants children and strategically stymied, Merru goes to tell Lieann about this new problem. Lieann is also startled and pitying that Rav feels this way; Lieann and Merru both agree that Rav would be a loving father and it's unreasonable for him to pain himself by deciding he's unworthy to sire children – they would both love and protect his children to make sure they didn't grow up feeling hated.

Merru reveals she knows the child would be a cursewhite, to Lieann's startlement, and that she wants to go ahead with the plan anyway, and she really really longs to have a child of her own, it would be torture for her to marry Rav and condemn herself to a life of barrenness. Lieann has already been impressed by Merru's intelligence and open heart. Watching Rav blossom in Merru's company, Lieann has come to wistfully feel his own attraction to her; he realizes she probably would have loved him the same way she does Rav if he had kept her for himself. This is the last little push that makes Lieann fall totally in love with Merru. (They have sex for the first time now.)

Merru points out that since the child would be a cursewhite, that would be a dead giveaway that Lieann sired it, but perhaps more importantly the fact that Merru wasn't upset that it was a cursewhite might tip Rav off that she had known Lieann and Rav were related. How loving was Rav going to be to her if she slapped him the first time he expressed regret that he had accidentally managed to get her pregnant? Beyond that, was she expected to never again have another child? Because Rav certainly wouldn't believe it was an accident if it happened twice; if he really believed Lieann had deceived her he would probably never let her be alone with him again.

How was she supposed to get an egg from Rav anyway? If she pushed him to give her one, if he gave in that would be good, but if he didn't he would get suspicious and it would get much harder to trick him into providing one... Merru and Lieann come to a compromise: Merru will use alcohol and/or a magic potion on Rav when he smells like he has an egg ready to lay, which should be any day now. She will make sure he's heavily asleep afterwards, then come to Lieann and he will fertilize the egg. Then she'll go back to Rav and try to convince him that it would be a good thing for him to sire a child. Also she'll reassure him that he did not implant an egg in her when he was drunk or whatever, they discarded it instead. She gets one month to convince him, because the pregnancy won't show in that amount of time. Then Lieann will announce that Merru's people have offered a ransom for her, and he is obligated to return her unless she is married. Rav will propose, and Merru will sobbingly say she loves Rav but she can't marry him if doing so means she'll never have children.

Rav then goes to Lieann to ask for help in convincing Merru to marry him. Lieann says some complimentary things about Merru, emphasizing how amazing it is that she doesn't reject either of them for their odd appearances, and that he definitely thinks Rav should marry her and not let her get away. Rav, puzzled, says that Lieann almost sounds like he has a crush on Merru. Lieann blushes and explains that he has fallen in love with Merru but hasn't acted as anything more than a friend to her because he would never want to take away something that made Rav happy. Also Merru definitely belonged to Rav first because Lieann didn't notice how special she was until a while after he had given her to Rav.

Lieann says he can't deny he fantasized a bit about what it would be like to share Merru with Rav, but he knew that would be utterly unlikely so he didn't pursue it at all. Although Lieann is technically lying here, since he already got Merru pregnant which naturally required having sex with her, the feeling behind it is true – if Rav marries Merru, Lieann will only gets scraps of Merru's time and affection, won't be the official father of his own child, and when it becomes clear that the child is a cursewhite Rav may even decide he hates Lieann, or might take Merru and their child and leave Lieann behind. Rav accepts Lieann's statement that he's only been friendly toward Merru, partly because Rav feels longstanding guilt over rejecting Lieann's affections despite the fact that Lieann has done a lot to help him.

Instead Rav moves on to the problem that Merru has already refused to marry Rav. Lieann pretends to be surprised by this, saying that it seemed clear to him that Merru was in love with Rav – why would she refuse to marry him? Rav blushes and grumbles angrily that he doesn't want to engender a child with her. Lieann lets his inner disbelief at Rav's attitude show through, and asks Rav why on earth he would say no to a smart, kind, beautiful woman asking to bear his child. Is Rav crazy?

Rav is both embarrassed and irritated, but he explains his reasoning, making clear that he expects Lieann to understand, and moreover that he expects Lieann to agree that what their parents did in conceiving them was horrible, Lieann would never be so irresponsible as to sire a cursewhite child, would he? Lieann on the other hand makes clear that he does not agree – that there's nothing morally wrong about being a cursewhite or a bestial, or about creating a child who is one. The people who are in the wrong are the prejudiced idiots who mistreated them when they were children; denying themselves the right to reproduce would be giving in to those bigots! Rav argues that it's not about right and wrong – it's just a fact that any bestial or cursewhile child will be tormented, and he would feel eternally guilty if he put a child through that. Lieann says this is absurd, Rav and Merru would be loving parents, and Lieann would also be happy to be a doting uncle, and as leader he has the political and economic power to make sure his nephews would be treated politely – he would even name the child his heir! Rav just shakes his head, he doesn't think that would be enough, there would still be dirty looks, taunts from other children, loneliness when the child tried to find a mate...

Lieann says, well, I respect that Merru belongs to you, and I hope you can find a way to be happy with her, but if you're dumb enough to let her get away I'm going to consider her fair game; I'll ask her to marry me, and I'll give her as many damn babies as she wants. I just want to make that clear – I truly don't want to hurt you, but she's too precious to let get away, so if you give up on her, I have to take a chance... understand? Rav is clearly unhappy about this possible future, but says that's fair.

What actually happens is that Rav does let Merru get away, Lieann asks her to marry him, and she agrees. Lieann and Merru take a honeymoon trip for a few days, and when they come back they announce that she is pregnant – that way everyone will assume they got a random layer to donate an egg wherever they were honeymooning and no one will ask about it until the birth reveals the child to be a cursewhite. Then they will say the layer was a relative of Merru's unless Rav has changed his mind by then.

Rav is depressed and wistful seeing Lieann and Merru together, and Merru glowing with pregnancy. Lieann says he would give his permission for Merru to be Rav's lover if it would make Rav happy, because neither he or Merru can stand seeing Rav so depressed. Rav doesn't feel right about this, and initially refuses, but Merru seduces him, after which he is somewhat more cheerful.

At some point Merru asks Rav to explain whether he actually thinks Lieann is attractive and why he's so dead-set against sex with Lieann. Rav does explain, and Merru says she wishes he could be more affectionate to Lieann, but if he just can't she won't press the issue.

When the child is born Rav is shocked that it is a cursewhite, but doesn't question Lieann's explanation that they asked a relative of Merru's for the egg. Rav does express his unhappiness that Lieann intentionally allowed a cursewhite child to be conceived, setting it up for misery. Lieann argues fiercely that he's going to do everything in his power to make sure the child grows up happy and loved – is Rav going to contribute to the problem by treating the child like a mistake? Rav says no, of course he will also love and help protect the child. Indeed Rav adores holding and playing with the baby; the only thing he finds embarrassing is that people keep wondering if he's the child's layer. Eventually he wishes he really was the baby's father.

Lieann immediately pounces on this admission, saying mysteriously that there's one way Rav could actually become the baby's father. Lieann says, obviously Rav would have to marry Merru to become the father of her child; but the condition is the same as it always was: Merru will only marry him if he provides the egg for her to have another baby. Because she wants more children, and she wouldn't feel right going back to her layer cousin for another egg if she was married to Rav. If Rav is married to Merru, everyone will assume her children are his anyway, is Rav really so stubborn to make the bearer who loves him go to someone else for an egg, if the child will be a cursewhite regardless?

Rav accuses Lieann of lusting to sire a child with one of Rav's eggs. Lieann angrily replies that of course he does, idiot, but Rav knows perfectly well what Lieann really wants – and has Lieann even suggested Rav do so much as kiss him? No, Lieann has never even mentioned the possibility, has he?!. The fresh guilt trip makes Rav realize how petty his accusation was and dissipates Rav's attempt to avoid considering this uncomfortable possibility by picking an argument.

The story ends when Rav at last has sex with Lieann, really enjoys it, and Merru tells Rav that the first baby really is his, she got the egg from him that one night when he was drunk, please forgive her? Rav is almost furious, but also awed by the thought that this perfect, adorable little girl is really his daughter. Actually being only 1/9 animal she doesn't look like a bestial, just has a slightly exotic cast to her features. So Rav sees that he really had nothing to be afraid of; except she still needs his protection because she's a cursewhite, but he was already giving her that anyway.
 
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What's the reasoning behind the three sexes? Just wondering.

In my opinion at least, sci-fi fantasy is the hardest to write. The reason I say this is because the writer has to be good enough to make the reader suspend belief. Tolkien, for example makes the reader believe in Hobbits, Orcs, wizards etc. It's hard to judge how good your story will be just from the synopsis.

Your synopsis reads more like a discussion at times. I can't tell you what will work better, you're the person with the total global vision of your imagined world. My idea of a synopsis is a bare-boned shell of what you envision your story to be. Just the facts.

I don't really get a strong vision of what your story is trying to accomplish.

Do I think it could be a strong story? Yes, I think it could be a very interesting story. I think you could tone down the sexual aspect a bit, and turn up the intrigue a notch. Heavy on the plotting and conniving.

It seems your whole plot is mired down with the sex, and that's all it is. I suppose that's what to be expected at a site that has stories about sex. The problem is, I don't find tri-state sex all that erotic. I think it could be, but just from what you've posted it's not.

You have some really cool ideas in this synopsis. Especially the Cursewhites, I thought that was quite original.

My advice, start writing it. Let your characters move the story and see where it goes. I think if you take your time you could be on to something. Would I read it? Yes, I'll read anything if it looks good.
 
What's the reasoning behind the three sexes? Just wondering.
Thanks for the response. :rose: By reasoning behind it, do you mean why I chose it? I thought I explained the how pretty thoroughly. The reason why is that in threesome stories the threesome often seems arbitrary, unfair, impermanent, and unnatural. I wanted to create a setting where a 3-way relationship is the biologically motivated norm. If I could write something good enough, I'd like to go after the market of "erotic romance novels where the female main character gets two or more males". These are almost always science fiction or fantasy (and I love SF anyway, I would never want to write anything that wasn't science fiction or fantasy).

In my opinion at least, sci-fi fantasy is the hardest to write. The reason I say this is because the writer has to be good enough to make the reader suspend belief. Tolkien, for example makes the reader believe in Hobbits, Orcs, wizards etc. It's hard to judge how good your story will be just from the synopsis.

Your synopsis reads more like a discussion at times. I can't tell you what will work better, you're the person with the total global vision of your imagined world. My idea of a synopsis is a bare-boned shell of what you envision your story to be. Just the facts.
A synopsis needs to contain all the information necessary for a reader to understand the plot. So it needs to include plot-relevant worldbuilding and character motives and reasoning. But yes, this synopsis is a discussion because it's me talking to myself about how the story should work.

I don't really get a strong vision of what your story is trying to accomplish.
Hmm, that worries me. I think there are two points of central importance: 1. the layer overcoming the way he's allowed himself to be crippled by society's idea that non-normal = bad, and 2. the bearer's use of persuasion and arbitration to create a family. Did those come across too weakly, not at all, or are they not what you meant by "what the story is trying to accomplish"?

Do I think it could be a strong story? Yes, I think it could be a very interesting story. I think you could tone down the sexual aspect a bit, and turn up the intrigue a notch. Heavy on the plotting and conniving.

It seems your whole plot is mired down with the sex, and that's all it is. I suppose that's what to be expected at a site that has stories about sex. The problem is, I don't find tri-state sex all that erotic. I think it could be, but just from what you've posted it's not.
Hmm. I want to write erotic romance. For that kind of thing sex should constitute 1/4 or 1/3 of the story. I'm failing to picture how less sex would improve the story. :confused: To me, although intrigue is interesting, it's not as interesting as sex and romance.

You have some really cool ideas in this synopsis. Especially the Cursewhites, I thought that was quite original.

My advice, start writing it. Let your characters move the story and see where it goes. I think if you take your time you could be on to something. Would I read it? Yes, I'll read anything if it looks good.
Thank you, that's encouraging to hear. :cattail:
 
By reasoning behind it, do you mean why I chose it? I thought I explained the how pretty thoroughly. The reason why is that in threesome stories the threesome often seems arbitrary, unfair, impermanent, and unnatural. I wanted to create a setting where a 3-way relationship is the biologically motivated norm. If I could write something good enough, I'd like to go after the market of "erotic romance novels where the female main character gets two or more males". These are almost always science fiction or fantasy (and I love SF anyway, I would never want to write anything that wasn't science fiction or fantasy).

That's good enough for me. I usually don't find alien sex very erotic, and that's why I asked. Don't try to limit yourself to one genre, especially as a fledgling writer. Explore other genres will only make your writing better.

I want to write erotic romance. For that kind of thing sex should constitute 1/4 or 1/3 of the story. I'm failing to picture how less sex would improve the story. :confused: To me, although intrigue is interesting, it's not as interesting as sex and romance.

Flour, bakers chocolate and sugar seperately aren't too good, but mix them together, and with a few other things, and you get a delicous, ooey, gooey, treat, brownies.

Writing is a lot like that. You want to try to build tension. Romantic tension, sexual tension, tension between characters. This is what makes a story interesting. A tale where everyone starts out happy, remains happy, and ends up happy is nice, but can be a bit on the dull side. It takes many ingredients to make a story interesting and successful.

I don't know if there's a magic number regarding the amount of sex a story has to have to be a romance. I know for me, I've had stories that had little sex, but were romances, and others that were chock full of carnal pleasures that were romantic. Each story is unique.
 
sunandshadow said:
I think it's my turn; if I'm early just ignore this until the right day, if I'm late I apologize. :rose:
You're right both, it was your turn, but you were a little early; however it's clear Shel's thread has waned, so no reason for this one not to take center stage.
 
Synopsis pasted into first post by request. Let me know if it seems too long to be there though.
 
Do you find the plot interesting?
Yes, mostly because it's different.

Do you think it will make a good story?
It could, but I believe it will be a challenge to execute due to the foreign nature of the creatures involved.

Does the plot have a complete, logical, and exciting structure?
I can't say whether it would be exciting, but I think the basic plot can work.

Does anything seem unbalanced, contrived, or missing?
There's a reason many fictional tales occur in times of conflict- because wars can so easily get in between lovers. I expected this war to impact the plot in a major way and it really doesn't. This tale could easily occur in a time of peace with Merru being a messenger or ambassador or something like that.

I also had a hard time believing Merru would be so compliant so quickly when captured by her enemies. It's been done before many times, so it can work, but work may be the word for it. :)

The ending in particular, does it sound satisfying and pleasing?
An issue I foresee with this tale is that Rav is the only character I find sympathetic. The other two are essentially selfish and conniving and they eventually get their way. Is that satisfying? On the surface, I'd say no.

Should I start with the captive being presented to Lieann, or start with her being tricked and captured?
This depends on which of the characters you wish the reader to identify with. My inclination would be to start with Rav seeing Merru for the first time- but that's because Rav seems to be the one I'd be most inclined to care about.



So let me see if I understand these three genders. Basically, two partners provide genetic material to impregnate a third, who then carries and births the child. I don't see anything wrong with that, though it might be more interesting if all three of them had to participate at the same time. Regardless, I think you'd do well to not explain the science of their mating too much. It's natural to them and relating such things from their perspective instead of ours is one of the major challenges I see with this subject matter.

On the subject of not explaining too much, I think you should skip the entire business with the wizard's curse turning the children's hair permanently white. That seems ever so silly. It's fine if children resulting from incest are visually distinct. In a world so different from ours, I don't think you need to give a reason why this is so. You might consider using a trait other than hair color, which is just about the easiest physical trait to change.

Incest isn't essential for this tale to work. While the plot requires some source of tension between the characters, you could use racial taboos instead. If arousal is your goal with the incest angle, I'm not sure incest will quite have the same forbidden allure when humans aren't involved- especially when the siblings involved can each mate individually with the third creature.

The bestial facet to this tale is totally unnecessary. For the story to work, Rav need only have some repulsive physical abnormality that he can pass on. It doesn't need to be the result of some creepy coupling. Or should that be tripling? ;) Regardless, I don't see any reason to delve into an area that is bound to turn some readers off, unless that is a specific goal.

Which brings me to, what are your primary goals? If you want an adventure tale, then the war needs to get in the way and maybe Lieann and Rav have to put aside their differences to go rescue Merru. If it's meant to be a tale of simple acceptance of those that are different, then the core plot is fine the way it is, but a lot of the fluff can go. If your intention is to arouse, then you may have quite the challenge inviting readers to identify with such alien creatures.

Thanks for sharing your work with us. It's certainly an impressive and imaginative effort!

Take Care,
Penny
 
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DKM said:
I don't really get a strong vision of what your story is trying to accomplish.

Do I think it could be a strong story? Yes, I think it could be a very interesting story. I think you could tone down the sexual aspect a bit, and turn up the intrigue a notch. Heavy on the plotting and conniving.

It seems your whole plot is mired down with the sex, and that's all it is. I suppose that's what to be expected at a site that has stories about sex. The problem is, I don't find tri-state sex all that erotic. I think it could be, but just from what you've posted it's not.
DKM's reaction sure seems similar to mine. While I didn’t grasp the overall intent, the intrigue was possibly engaging, but I didn't find much arousal potential. Isn't it interesting how DKM and I both used the term conniving?

Sun said:
Hmm, that worries me. I think there are two points of central importance: 1. the layer overcoming the way he's allowed himself to be crippled by society's idea that non-normal = bad, and 2. the bearer's use of persuasion and arbitration to create a family. Did those come across too weakly, not at all, or are they not what you meant by "what the story is trying to accomplish"?
I didn't see the layer overcoming much of anything. I saw the other two using him and betraying his trust and then he pretty much says, "Well, I guess that's ok after all." Labeling Merru's actions 'persuasion and arbitration' puts a rather nice spin on some rather shady doings. :) Shady doings make for great stories though- so that's really more compliment than criticism.

DKM said:
You have some really cool ideas in this synopsis.
I agree about the cleverness and the originality of the concept.
 
There's a reason many fictional tales occur in times of conflict- because wars can so easily get in between lovers. I expected this war to impact the plot in a major way and it really doesn't. This tale could easily occur in a time of peace with Merru being a messenger or ambassador or something like that.
This is true. Personally I don't like war-content much so if I use war at all it's not the actual combat parts. I wanted to have Merru be a captive given to Rav, and I wanted this to seem like a more kind an reasonable decision on Lieann's part than an obvious alternative (like execution or torture). It's important that Merru know that from Lieann's perspective she is a criminal and he's being merciful. It really wouldn't work if she was a slave she purchased or a random civilian he kidnapped.

I suppose it might work if she had been caught spying, but then it would seem more dangerous to keep her living with them, she'd just learn more and more. I guess she could have been caught stealing something, but it's important to her character than she be concerned with ethics, so she'd have to feel justified in stealing whatever it was. I don't think she's the kind of person who could be an assassin so she couldn't be caught attempting to assassinate someone. But, I do like the idea that she's an officer, because in general I think soldiers and uniforms an be hot, and if I were to turn the story into a comic uniforms would be a nice touch.

I also had a hard time believing Merru would be so compliant so quickly when captured by her enemies.
Actually that's what I built Merru's character around. I get tired of characters who weep or rage when taken prisoner, I wanted a character who would be calm and inclined to bargain.

An issue I foresee with this tale is that Rav is the only character I find sympathetic. The other two are essentially selfish and conniving and they eventually get their way. Is that satisfying? On the surface, I'd say no.
Wow. I was so startled by that I had to read it twice. Personally I think Rav's kind of a wimp, while Merru and Lieann are clever, but I think all three have reasons they deserve sympathy. Probably those parts just don't come through in the synopsis because they're not central to the plot.

Lieann has lived for years in unrequited love, and been treated as badly for being a cursewhite as Rav has for being a bestial. (I'll comment on bestials and cursewhites below.) Lieann also, as hereditary leader of his faction, has a pretty high-pressure job where he is responsible for everyone living there. He has the power that he could have drugged or forced Ravennin into having sex with him years ago, but chose not to do so because he genuinely loves Rav and wants him to be happy.

Merru is a kind and open-minded person who wants both Rav and Lieann to be happy despite the fact that they are holding her prisoner and each weird-looking in a way many others would consider ample reason to be disgusted by the idea of sex with them. Merru also wasn't enthused about the military life she was sort of pushed into because of her abilities and parentage. She wants to have lovers and children, not be tramping around outdoors overseeing fighting and forbidden to sleep with her soldiers because it would be an abuse of authority and cause rumors of favoritism and possible spark bullying. Lieann has no obligation to her at all, yet he offers he more choice and opportunity to live a life she enjoys than her own faction ever did. It actually really hurts her to imagine being 'trapped' in a marriage which wouldn't result in children, and she wouldn't feel it was right to marry Rav but have some other layer get her pregnant.

Rav on the other hand, I like him but he has what he wants in his grasp, he's warned that he's going to let it get away, and he lets it get away anyway. Not really a respect-inspiring action. Rav is sweet, shy, and has been treated badly, I think that does make him sympathetic. But his story would be a tragedy due to his lack of self-confidence except for the fact that Merru and Lieann want him to be happy, know he would love being a father, and want him to realize he deserves to have children and to be happy, he's not tainted or worthless because he's a bestial. After Merru marries Lieann they could have abandoned Rav to mope in his loneliness but they don't. They both make an effort to try to cheer Rav up and make it clear that they are always ready to welcome him if he ever needs to feel loved.

This depends on which of the characters you wish the reader to identify with. My inclination would be to start with Rav seeing Merru for the first time- but that's because Rav seems to be the one I'd be most inclined to care about.
I see Merru as the main character, I was only worried about starting with her because people tend to complain if it takes too long to get to the sex.

(snipped comments about three-gender species, cursewhites, and bestials)
This is one of a set of stories in a world I've been developing, I hope to publish the stories as a collection. The creation of cursewhites is established in an earlier story, both cursewhites and bestials are central to other stories. Bestiality is a theme in the collection, I just chose a synopsis which did not have that topic to abide by Lit's rules.

I was thinking I would briefly explain the 3-gender genetics and gender differences in an author's note at the beginning of the collection. A few paragraphs of explanation is more justified when they would improve understanding of several stories, I think.

Incest isn't essential for this tale to work. While the plot requires some source of tension between the characters, you could use racial taboos instead. If arousal is your goal with the incest angle, I'm not sure incest will quite have the same forbidden allure when humans aren't involved- especially when the siblings involved can each mate individually with the third creature.
I don't think incest is ever necessary for a story to work, there's always something that could be substituted. But I really like incest, and Lieann wants to have sex with Rav from the beginning, so I think the fact that it isn't necessary to reproduction is irrelevant. Brother-brother incest like this would not normally result in reproduction anyway.

Which brings me to, what are your primary goals? If you want an adventure tale, then the war needs to get in the way and maybe Lieann and Rav have to put aside their differences to go rescue Merru. If it's meant to be a tale of simple acceptance of those that are different, then the core plot is fine the way it is, but a lot of the fluff can go. If your intention is to arouse, then you may have quite the challenge inviting readers to identify with such alien creatures.

Thanks for sharing your work with us. It's certainly an impressive and imaginative effort!

Take Care,
Penny
Thanks very much for your comments. :) The story is definitely not supposed to be an adventure story. I was intending the collection to be erotic romance, with the focus being on the characters' psychology (sort of like psychodrama). I also wanted to go for something like a "comedy of manners" (like Pride and Prejudice, many of Shakespeare's comedies). Disguises, spying, misunderstandings, blackmail/bargaining, magic (especially magic gone awry), and romantic rhapsodizing and angst are common plot elements in this type of story. Usually this type of story is mainly talking with a bit of sneaking or traveling, they don't contain intense action like fighting.

I'd kind of like to write action comedy some time, some of my favorite animes and musicals are that genre, but I find action difficult to write.
 
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Bestiality is a theme in the collection, I just chose a synopsis which did not have that topic to abide by Lit's rules.
It'd be an interesting philosophical discussion whether your other stories of this world would violate the letter or the spirit of Literotica rules since no known animals are involved, including humans. Assuming the other species in Rav's heritage is a 'dumb' animal, I'm of the opinion it would violate the spirit, but maybe not the letter. Since the beings of this world can apparently interbreed and produce fertile offspring, there is also the issue of what even defines a separate species there.

Personally I think Rav's kind of a wimp, while Merru and Lieann are clever...
I agree.

Brother-brother incest like this would not normally result in reproduction anyway.
In their world, or ours, when would brother-brother incest result in reproduction?

I did find it interesting that Rav and Lienn are both masculine, while Merru is considered feminine, especially since in our world it's the provider of the egg and not necessarily the bearer of the offspring that is considered female.

This led me to ponder the use of masculine and feminine terms, like 'brother' and even simple pronouns like 'he' and 'she'. Why wouldn’t they have three sets of gender-related labels? Or maybe they might have just one, but it seems unlikely they'd have our pair. Eventually, I decided these other terms would almost certainly exist, but were lost when roughly translated into English- which is a fine way to sweep the issue under the rug. Still, I wonder how awkward, yet immersive, it might be to use totally foreign terms instead of familiar ones we associate with male and female?
 
Sun said:
I was intending the collection to be erotic romance, with the focus being on the characters' psychology.

After sleeping on it, I don't see any reason your story can't meet your above stated intention.

Sure, I have some concerns regarding shady doings leading to a less than satisfying ending, but many romantic stories follow this same pattern: huge dose of bad-behavior after which the characters simply forgive each other in the name of love.

Have you considered writing a shorter tale in this triple-gendered world to test the proverbial waters?
 
For some reason I only every have ideas for longer stories, not short ones. Probably because I don't read short stories for pleasure, excluding erotica. One of the ideas I have for this setting is shorter because it's a romance between only two characters, but that's one of the bestiality ones. And I do consider them to be bestiality since they are 4-legged animals, not thinking beings. It's just a magical property of this world that anything can breed with anything.

But if you want an interesting border case to ponder, I have a different story where a mage sculpts beautiful human bodies then brings them to life by placing a dog soul in one and a horse soul in the other. Is it bestiality to have sex with a human body that has a non-human brain? I'd say in spirit, yes, because the brain is the important part, not the body. The current argument against bestiality (which I don't agree with) is that animals cannot consent to sex, thus sex with an animal is always rape. I think that ignores the fact that dogs and some other animals will of their own volition try to have sex with humans. But, Lit has the right to set their rules however they want, and I don't post to lit's story archive anyway because it's features suck, so I have no urge to push the boundaries here.

The pronouns and gender terms are an interesting question. Makes me think of reading Melissa Scott's Shadowman which has 5 genders (male, female, dickchick, cuntboi,and true herm). She used an additional 3 sets of pronouns for the non-standard genders. I myself previously tried using gender-neutral pronouns for a race that was all herms. My feeling in that it makes the characters seem more foreign and less like someone you want to screw or marry. Also having bearers be female and the other two male results in fmm threesomes, and I have read some threesome romances that I'd be happy to be able to write something similar, so I can use those as examples. fmm seems like a good balance to me personally as a writer, because I'm not as interested in writing female characters as male ones, but I don't want to write only male characters.

On the other hand, although I want to keep the regular pronouns, I've been groping around a bit for ways to modify terms like father, uncle, son, lord, etc. to make them communicate whether the character is a seeder or layer. I was considering sticking a prefix on them, for example la-uncle and se-uncle. But logically bearer would be handled the same way by their language, does that mean it should be be-aunt, be-lady, be-daughter, even though the prefix is redundant with the word's meaning? It makes sense with non-gendered terms though, like doctor, lawyer, owner, etc.
 
Sun said:
...the brain is the important part, not the body.
I agree with this assessment, but am reluctant to say more since I think it wise to keep the focus on your synopsis and not get too distracted with related issues.

Sun said:
I was considering sticking a prefix on them, for example la-uncle and se-uncle. But logically bearer would be handled the same way by their language, does that mean it should be be-aunt, be-lady, be-daughter, even though the prefix is redundant with the word's meaning? It makes sense with non-gendered terms though, like doctor, lawyer, owner, etc.
I like your prefix idea. Did you consider using only one set of pronouns, so there might be only uncles instead of aunts with the gender identified by the prefix? But you've already written other stories, haven't you? If so, you're already committed here too, right?

Here's hoping we hear from a few more readers. With but two participants, it's so difficult to guess how common an opinion may be.
 
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Here's hoping we hear from a few more readers. With but two participants, it's so difficult to guess how common an opinion may be.

I'm so sorry, I've been busy the past week, I'll try to contribute a bit to the discussion tomorrow.
 
D_K_Moon said:
I'm so sorry, I've been busy the past week, I'll try to contribute a bit to the discussion tomorrow.
:) I wasn't including Sun in my tally, so you are one of the two I counted as having participated!
 
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