How Would Deal With It?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not hopeful we can have a serious and sober discussion of illegal immigration, and I'm even less hopeful that the nation can discuss it, much less form a plan any 2 people agree with. But what would you do if you were the President or God or Oprah or whomever?

I'm inclined to get the real facts first. Then define what the problem is and isnt in terms of tangible consequences for America. If every Mexican is infected with Bubonic Plague, thats a tangible consequence and a problem. If every Mexican steals 5 cars during his tenure in America thats a tangible consequence and a problem.

Got the idea?

Then there's the unintended consequences. Mexicans are Roman Catholic and love the Pope. If you hand them amnesty and citizenship will their numbers and influence change hearts & minds in Washington about...say...abortion? Or maybe secession. Shit! California, Texas, and the Gadsden Purchase could be part of Old Mexico again.

So how should we handle illegal aliens?

 

[TxRad]

Make Mexico the 51st State and be done with it.

 

[Liar]

Most illegal immigrants come to America to make money by being cheap labor. Companies hire them because it makes sense to their bottom line. That's why they come. There's demand, an unlimited supply, and since its all illega anyway, no rules to regulate the price.

The PC answer to how to deal with that is to allow people to come as guest workers instead.

Nice and all. But would companies hire those? Will a documented guest worker under Uncle Sam's watchful eye be able to work as cheaply as an illegal today, with payroll taxes, minimum wages, regulations and whatnot?

 

[TE999]

Most illegal immigrants come to America to make money by being cheap labor. Companies hire them because it makes sense to their bottom line. That's why they come. There's demand, an unlimited supply, and since its all illega anyway, no rules to regulate the price.

The PC answer to how to deal with that is to allow people to come as guest workers instead.

Nice and all. But would companies hire those? Will a documented guest worker under Uncle Sam's watchful eye be able to work as cheaply as an illegal today, with payroll taxes, minimum wages, regulations and whatnot?

Liar's pretty much nailed it. The illegals are easily exploited because they're desperate to earn a living and will risk life and limb to do it. Their own country is irredeemably corrupt and controlled in a large part by a criminal element that has unlimited financial resources thanks to the US's endless craving for soft and hard drugs.

The feds are not very energetic in enforcing the existing immigration laws because they don't want to be excoriated like Arizona for being racist, plus there's the endless trolling for votes that being sympathetic to the illegals plight are sure to garner.

Short of building the Great Wall of China along the border and prosecuting heavily those companies that knowingly and repeatedly employ illegals, I see no real solution to the problem.

We can't change the government in Mexico or make all the illegals legal, the latter would make a mockery of existing laws including the limits we place on immigration from all other countries. I can guarantee you that this is not sitting well with those people who entered this country legally including those of Spanish heritage.

It's a conundrum.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

With no plan we invite an unplanned course of events and actions that almost guarantees worse than we want to avoid. My own guess, and the prediction of a few experts, is war with Mexico for control of California, Texas, and the Southwest. Mexico will use a war to maintain its political cohesion, and Mexican-Americans are, at heart, loyal to Mexico.

 

[TxRad]

With no plan we invite an unplanned course of events and actions that almost guarantees worse than we want to avoid. My own guess, and the prediction of a few experts, is war with Mexico for control of California, Texas, and the Southwest. Mexico will use a war to maintain its political cohesion, and Mexican-Americans are, at heart, loyal to Mexico.

Loyal to Mexico yes, loyal to the Mexican government, not so much. Anyway, Mexico is no shape to fight any kind of war.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Loyal to Mexico yes, loyal to the Mexican government, not so much. Anyway, Mexico is no shape to fight any kind of war.

I dont know, and I didnt think so, but the experts say they'll start some shit with us to get the peasants to sing My Country Tis of Thee together.

 

[MzDeviancy]

I dont know, and I didnt think so, but the experts say they'll start some shit with us to get the peasants to sing My Country Tis of Thee together.

Could you include some sources, please.

 

[The_Fool]

Based on my exposure, nonscientific of course, I would say that the Mexican Hispanic population are most loyal to their extended families and to their cultural roots rather than their government structure. In fact, I would say they have a significant distrust for both the US and the Mexican government and would not be friendly to either.

From a religious perspective, I think it would interesting to research how Central/South American Catholicism differs from European Catholicism. I would predict that there are separations similar to differences with Orthodox.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Plan: Guest Workers

1. All illegals can become guest workers.
...a. In order to become a guest worker they would have to return to Mexico and apply at a US embassy there.
...b. An unforgeable Guest Worker ID will be issued allowing them to enter the US for a specified time.
...c. An American company has to sponsor Guest Worker's in order for them to become guest workers.

2. Any company found employing illegals will be heavily fined and owners thrown in jail. (after due process of course).

3. Any illegals found in the country will be deported immediately.

4. Any Guest Worker convicted of a crime(felony) will lose their guest worker status and be deported, after they have served their sentence. (that sentence, if probation, is immediate deportation)

5. A guest worker can apply to become a citizen and follow normal naturalization rules and regs.

6. Illegal parents of legal children will no longer be anchored by the child. The child will be issued a passport and allowed to go with it's parents. Or the parents can leave the child with a legal relative. Or if the parents so choose the citizen can become a ward of the state.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Could you include some sources, please.

Do your own research.

I learned the hard way that if I cite sources here all it does is invite discounting of the sources. So if youre interested look for the information yourself. But I have no intention of quarreling with you or anyone else about the sources.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ZC

Trouble is, we wont do it now or later. Business pays off the politicians, the Usual Suspects make a stink if you enforce the laws, and its too much like honest work from the cop's perspective. Cops wanna bust you for seatbelts and smoking NOT chase your ass on foot.

 

[DeeZire]

A couple of years ago in Arizona, the Sate Legislature passed tough sanctions for employers who hire illegals, but they included no funding for enforcement. Since then, only 4 cases have been prosecuted. With the Bush crash and the resulting defunding of state, county, and city services, there is no money to pay for prosecutions. Where I live, the county attorney's office is working with a 30% deficit in personnel. They can't even afford to prosecute violent misdemeanors, much less pay the man hours for investigating employers suspected of hiring illegals.

The irony is, if Arizona had 100% enforcement, they'd save hundreds of millions of dollars spent on schooling and health care for illegals, which would easily pay for the enforcement, but that's not going to happen because the same people who finance the politicians also benefit from hiring illegals. It's called Free Market Capitalism, where the best investment private enterprise can make is buying legislation that protects their bottom line.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

A couple of years ago in Arizona, the Sate Legislature passed tough sanctions for employers who hire illegals, but they included no funding for enforcement. Since then, only 4 cases have been prosecuted. With the Bush crash and the resulting defunding of state, county, and city services, there is no money to pay for prosecutions. Where I live, the county attorney's office is working with a 30% deficit in personnel. They can't even afford to prosecute violent misdemeanors, much less pay the man hours for investigating employers suspected of hiring illegals.

The irony is, if Arizona had 100% enforcement, they'd save hundreds of millions of dollars spent on schooling and health care for illegals, which would easily pay for the enforcement, but that's not going to happen because the same people who finance the politicians also benefit from hiring illegals. It's called Free Market Capitalism, where the best investment private enterprise can make is buying legislation that protects their bottom line.

Amen!

The hell of it is, if we summarily granted amnesty to all business will recruit more illegals cuz illegals are cheaper to use. Existentially the illegal issue is identical to the slavery issue of the 1800s....except the planters had to feed and clothe and shelter their slaves.

 

[LaRocha]

The typical businesses that hire illegal immigrants in the Southwest still use illegal labor(US Citizens) in the East and Pac Northwest. Which makes me think immigration has nothing to do with illegal labor issues.

California and the Southwest is already Mexican, always will be. Let 'em all in, just find better ways to keep track. The Mexican immigrant would gladly do it legally. Spending money on "defending" our southern border from people who want to live here is almost as absurd as invading Iraq to keep terrorists out of NY and Washington.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LA COCKAROCHA

How about monsters that devour Mexicans out in the desert at night? I smell a plot bunny.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

With no plan we invite an unplanned course of events and actions that almost guarantees worse than we want to avoid. My own guess, and the prediction of a few experts, is war with Mexico for control of California, Texas, and the Southwest. Mexico will use a war to maintain its political cohesion, and Mexican-Americans are, at heart, loyal to Mexico.

Really? Who are these "experts"?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Really? Who are these "experts"?

Dear, read my response to MizzzDeviancy. Do the research and satisfy yourself, one way or the other. I'm not here to sell you anything, I simply put the ball in play.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Dear, read my response to MizzzDeviancy. Do the research and satisfy yourself, one way or the other. I'm not here to sell you anything, I simply put the ball in play.

I would willlingly do my own factual research. But I am not going to go on a snipe hunt for phantom experts. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, I can only assume that these experts are figments of your fertile imagination.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The typical businesses that hire illegal immigrants in the Southwest still use illegal labor(US Citizens) in the East and Pac Northwest. Which makes me think immigration has nothing to do with illegal labor issues.

...

What is illegal labor(US Citizens)? That statement makes no sense!

 

[LaRocha]

What is illegal labor(US Citizens)? That statement makes no sense!

Most illegal labor done in America is done by American citizens. Any paid labor not reported to US gov is illegal. Under the table etc. Real simpleton logic.

 

[TE999]

Most illegal labor done in America is done by American citizens. Any paid labor not reported to US gov is illegal. Under the table etc. Real simpleton logic.

There is an extensive network of cash only employers that hire folks for a day or a week and pay them under the table...there is an equally extensive network of people using the barter system to exchange goods and services...again there is no paper trail and taxes are avoided.

Many illegals are in one or both of these networks...you have more money and goods to send home and you keep a low profile as far as the law's concerned.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I would willlingly do my own factual research. But I am not going to go on a snipe hunt for phantom experts. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, I can only assume that these experts are figments of your fertile imagination.

One more time! Read my lips!

I DONT CARE.

After your last post I Googled 'War with Mexico' and pulled up gozillions of opinions about reasons for an armed conflict with Mexico. Many think America will be forced to intervene in Mexico becuz of drugs, smuggling, border violence, etc. etc etc. It wouldnt be the first time Mexico cant control its northern states and activities in those places.

But this time our border states are filled with wetbacks rooting for the home team.

 

[JackLuis]

First I think the illegal problem is much more important than a democratic Afghanistan, or Iraq. So, bring home the boys and let them have a year in the American Border.

If the MP units were sworn in as Border Patrol Officers and the infantry, artillery, ect, units acted as a skirmish line to force the coyotes to use the Ports of Entry, we would have at least established control of our border.

Even as long as our border is 180,000 men along it could make it very secure. The Army Anti-Air could seal the air space and stop fly over drug drops, and the Navy and their Seals and Marines could work on marine smuggling.

Pass a law that says illegals have to register with in 60 days or be deported forthwith, upon apprehension. If they register, and can prove that they have paid taxes and have not committed a crime, they then have 18-24 months to make as much money as they can before they have to remove themselves from the country. Failure to do so would be a five year stretch in Pima Co. Prison. (PB&J sandwiches, no TV, or Air Conditioning and pink gowns.)

Registered illegal's would get a Work Visa good for 18-24 mo and then have to remove themselves. If they want to come back they have to follow the law.
Children of illegals, born in the US are to be citizens of their parents country, for they are also here illegaly.

After the 60 day grace period, illegals are apprehended, turned over the Immigration and deported, and they can never apply for citizenship or a Work Permit in the US.

Immigration must check on business and if they find illegals working in a place of business, the illegals are deported and the owner, or CEO and Board Chairman, will be remanded for 120 days per employee found to be illegal in his employ.

Violations of the law by a Registered illegal would carry at least deportation as a penalty, the criminal penalty would be separate.

 

[CeriseNoire]

Registered illegal's would get a Work Visa good for 18-24 mo and then have to remove themselves. If they want to come back they have to follow the law.
Children of illegals, born in the US are to be citizens of their parents country, for they are also here illegally.

They are? I could have sworn that the US granted citizenship jus soli. Punishing newborns for their parents' sins in a slippery slope.