Epic Oil Spill...FUCK!

[Liar]

What this actually highlights is the limitations of response technology. Booms are only effective in 1 to 1.5 meter sea swells. Over that, oil gets past the booms. Dispersants break the oil up but it is is only spread into the sea. Skimmers can only recover about 10 to 15 percent of the slick under ideal conditions and burning not much more. Yes, it is the cost of doing business, but that entails the environemental damage and the loss of revenue to all many other business. And yes, it is BP as the owner but many other contactors, such as Haliburton, are liable to some extent.

Yes, to some extent. I'd also pass a bit of the buck to the government (not this or that administration, just in general). I heard on the radio some expert type mentioning that this specific kind of leakage wouldn't have happened with for instance a Norweigan or Brazilian drilling site, due to higher equirements for safety valves. A full investigation will tell us more of course, but preliminary, it loos like BP followed the regulations at hand, and that the regulations at hand were insufficient in this event. Remains to be seen though.

Response technology is indeed limited, not to mention costly. In comparison, preventive technology is (and pardon the pun) a drop in the ocean.

 

[TxRad]

Yes, to some extent. I'd also pass a bit of the buck to the government (not this or that administration, just in general). I heard on the radio some expert type mentioning that this specific kind of leakage wouldn't have happened with for instance a Norweigan or Brazilian drilling site, due to higher equirements for safety valves. A full investigation will tell us more of course, but preliminary, it loos like BP followed the regulations at hand, and that the regulations at hand were insufficient in this event. Remains to be seen though.

Response technology is indeed limited, not to mention costly. In comparison, preventive technology is (and pardon the pun) a drop in the ocean.

Do you have any idea of what it takes to drill in 1500 feet of water? Or for that matter what it takes just to keep a semi submersible centered over a well head in deep water? There are two ways to seal off the casing on a well offshore. Sea bottom well head valves, surface valves and a series of blowout preventors.

Since the well blew out, all that is left is the sea bottom valves. These are manual valves and according to how high the pressure is, they may not be able to close them even if they can get to them.

BP has a pretty good overall record for safety and follows guidelines that are as up to date as possible. The only problem with that is, we are pushing the boundaries of drilling faster than safety regulations can be updated.

Errors were made if the well blew out for sure but safety measures were not the problem. Someone wasn't paying attention to the well signs that tell you, you have a problem headed your way. Keeping an eye on flow percentages and gain/loss should have warned them long before the pressure hit the surface. Once it hits the surface, then there is hell to pay.

Since most of these deep water drills are rank wildcats with little or no offset well information, you have to let the well tell you what's going on down hole. Someone, several someone's actually, weren't listening.

 

[jomar]

So where is Red Adair when you need him?

 

[Liar]

Do you have any idea of what it takes to drill in 1500 feet of water? Or for that matter what it takes just to keep a semi submersible centered over a well head in deep water? There are two ways to seal off the casing on a well offshore. Sea bottom well head valves, surface valves and a series of blowout preventors.

Since the well blew out, all that is left is the sea bottom valves. These are manual valves and according to how high the pressure is, they may not be able to close them even if they can get to them.

BP has a pretty good overall record for safety and follows guidelines that are as up to date as possible. The only problem with that is, we are pushing the boundaries of drilling faster than safety regulations can be updated.

Errors were made if the well blew out for sure but safety measures were not the problem. Someone wasn't paying attention to the well signs that tell you, you have a problem headed your way. Keeping an eye on flow percentages and gain/loss should have warned them long before the pressure hit the surface. Once it hits the surface, then there is hell to pay.

Since most of these deep water drills are rank wildcats with little or no offset well information, you have to let the well tell you what's going on down hole. Someone, several someone's actually, weren't listening.

No, I don't know what it takes to drill in 1500 feet of water. Nor have I claimed to know.

I merely relayed what I heard on the radio, namely that BP wasn't using the same setup of bottom valves there as they and others are required to do in for instance North Sea deep sea drilling sites. As far as I understand it, those things are not there to prevent the actual blowout. They're there to prevent leakage after catastrophic events. And I agree that human error on multibple level probably is the main culprit for causing the accident in the first place.

Are those valves a factor or not in this specific disaster? Could the leak that followed the blowout have been prevented or not? I didn't make that claim, I just passed it on. I gladly leave it to you to dispute it all you want though. I'm sure you have excellent info on oil drilling bottom valve setups.

 

[TE999]

So where is Red Adair when you need him?

Red fought oil fires, so he wouldn't be much help. This problem's a different animal with the level of difficulty similar to removing a brain tumor through the patients asshole.

Where's Captain Nemo when you need him?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So where is Red Adair when you need him?

I volunteer TEX to fix it. Someone tie a 1958 Buick to his ass and toss him overboard with some gum and a coil of wire.

 

[TxRad]

I volunteer TEX to fix it. Someone tie a 1958 Buick to his ass and toss him overboard with some gum and a coil of wire.

It's not a fix it situation. It's a matter of pressure. The pressure of the water getting there and the pressure on the well head valve that needs to be closed. That is, if the valve is still in working order after the rig sank and took the casing above the valve with it.

Part of my job on this rig is making sure it doesn't blow out. So far, knock on wood, I have a perfect record and plan on keeping it that way. I have a pretty fair idea of who screwed up and how/why. At least three people missed critical clues.

And Yes, Lair, Well head valves are very similar across the oil fields, on land and off shore. Size and type may vary but the principles are all the same. The pressure at the well head could be as high as 18 to 20,000 PSI but that is only half the problem. The other half is expansion of the oil from the bottom of the hole to the surface.

 

[Dragonlipz]

You obviously missed the sarcasm in my statement. I suppose I should have added this guy at the end of the sentence. I was not making light of those men's deaths.[/QUOTE]

~~~

That was and is obvious to any rational person, TE, never mind the quacks, the second thing NBC noted was that perhaps Obama might have second thoughts about drilling off the East coast, which of course, would take ten years to produce a thimble full of product.

Amicus

DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

 

[Dragonlipz]

Red fought oil fires, so he wouldn't be much help. This problem's a different animal with the level of difficulty similar to removing a brain tumor through the patients asshole.

Where's Captain Nemo when you need him?

DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

 

[Dragonlipz]

Jesus H. Christ on roller skates! If one more person sobs for the birds I'm gonna explode!

This mess has the potential to seriously screw our economy over. Some are already predicting pump prices of $5 a gallon for gas, and plenty are worried about the effect on tourism around the Gulf. And there's not enough money in Limeyland to pay for the damage.

DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

When gasoline costs you $5 a gallon above is what you'll be screaming.

 

[TxRad]

When gasoline costs you $5 a gallon above is what you'll be screaming.

Five dollars a gallon is cheap compared to what ninety percent of the rest of the world pays.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Five dollars a gallon is cheap compared to what ninety percent of the rest of the world pays.

Uh, most of the world eats dogs and sleeps under trees, too. Most of the world is 4 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds. SO EFFING WHAT?

 

[trysail]

It's not a fix it situation. It's a matter of pressure. The pressure of the water getting there and the pressure on the well head valve that needs to be closed. That is, if the valve is still in working order after the rig sank and took the casing above the valve with it.

Part of my job on this rig is making sure it doesn't blow out. So far, knock on wood, I have a perfect record and plan on keeping it that way. I have a pretty fair idea of who screwed up and how/why. At least three people missed critical clues.

And Yes, Lair, Well head valves are very similar across the oil fields, on land and off shore. Size and type may vary but the principles are all the same. The pressure at the well head could be as high as 18 to 20,000 PSI but that is only half the problem. The other half is expansion of the oil from the bottom of the hole to the surface.

Tx,
There are a limited number of folk around here with any concept of how this stuff gets into their automobile— let alone the metallurgy enabling 5,000' of riser and 15,000 PSI of pressure.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4563035602_604acffcb1_b.jpg​

BP had discovered significant quantities of oil and gas at Macondo, the name of the field that the Deepwater Horizon rig was drilling. BP had reached total depth and penetrated the reservoir horizon at 18,000 feet. Halliburton had cemented the last casing string in the well and inserted several cement plugs within it which BP intended to drill out at some future point when they returned to Macondo to begin full-field development.

With the cement plugs in place, Transocean had begun the process of removing the drill string in the well (used during the cementing operation) and had begun to replace the heavier mud in the wellbore with less dense sea water. This is apparently a common practice, as the plugs are designed to contain the reservoir fluids downhole. Effectively, the Deepwater Horizon was hours away from moving off the Macondo location.

At this point, some speculation begins. The leading hypothesis is that the cement plugs failed. The drilling crew wouldn’t be expecting a failure and perhaps weren’t monitoring the systems that detect an influx of fluids into the well, drill string, and drill pipe riser. Unbeknownst to those on the rig, a mixture of gas and water was coming up the drill string and riser to the surface and the deck of the Deepwater Horizon. The volatile mixture of high-pressure hydrocarbons likely ignited quickly and unexpectedly, killing the 11 individuals who were on the drilling floor itself.

Normally, one of these drillers would have hit the “panic button” that closed the blowout preventers (BOP) on the seabed, but likely didn’t have the time to do it. The toolpusher a bit farther away also has access to a panic button, but himself may have been incapacitated in the explosion or, if the electrical switches to the BOP were cut when the riser exploded, may have been unsuccessful in his attempt.

The next line of defense is called a “dead man’s switch” and is supposed to activate the BOP on the sea floor if electrical and hydraulic communications with the rig are lost. If this switch had activated properly, five hydraulic “rams” under thousands of pounds of pressure, including one “shear ram” that acts like a pair of scissors, should have cut the drill string and closed in the well. The shear ram is designed to cut up to 13-3/8″ casing, which is far larger than what was in the well at the time.

For reasons not understood, the BOP’s either didn’t activate at all or didn’t do their job as intended. ROV pictures from the seabed show drill pipe extending out of the BOP (which should have been sheared off) and the oil is leaking at this point, as well as at several points above it where a part of the drilling riser remains.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxRad
Five dollars a gallon is cheap compared to what ninety percent of the rest of the world pays.

Uh, most of the world eats dogs and sleeps under trees, too. Most of the world is 4 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds. SO EFFING WHAT?

Jimmy is exaggerating, but most of the world doesn't drive sixty miles a day to and from work either.

 

[michchick98]

Jesus H. Christ on roller skates! If one more person sobs for the birds I'm gonna explode!

Everyone better take cover, Jimmy's about to explode:

<taunt>

Oh, those poor birds. It'll take years to clean them!

</taunt>

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Everyone better take cover, Jimmy's about to explode:

<taunt>

Oh, those poor birds. It'll take years to clean them!

</taunt>

Pluck the bastards and fry them.

 

[al_Ussa]

Uh, most of the world eats dogs and sleeps under trees, too. Most of the world is 4 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds. SO EFFING WHAT?

Sounds like you are describing your mom more than anything else...

Oh I guess not the weight part. I thought you said 80 stone... that would make her over a thousand pounds but you know that seeing as how you claim to be English and all. 1000 pounds sounds pretty good for a hambeast like her.

 

[michchick98]

Pluck the bastards and fry them.

I thought you said you'd explode if one more person cried about birds? Still waiting for you to explode. Got my "Gallagher" drop cloth ready to go! Explode away, Jimmy boy!

<another taunt>

Oh, those poor, poor birds!

</taunt>

 

[trysail]

The image below gives an idea of the size and scale of a subsea blow out preventer ( "BOP" ). Regulations require that subsea BOPs be frequently tested ( I'm told every other week ). There are a lot of engineers who are currently speculating in an effort to understand the reasons for this BOP failure. An equally large number are working 24/7 to try to solve the problem. There are daunting problems of temperatures, pressures and technology. Unfortunately, there are also problems of complexity, urgency and the subtle possibility of the operation of the law of unintended consequences. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that an effort made in haste could easily produce an even worse outcome. The more I understand some of the problems and immense forces at work, the more amazing it is to me that the BOP stack is still attached to the wellhead.

http://oilstatesintl.com/_filelib/ImageGallery/Products_Services/OSIAR2005_022.jpg

 

[Handley_Page]

Uh, most of the world eats dogs and sleeps under trees, too. Most of the world is 4 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds. SO EFFING WHAT?

So sort your own snags out and realise that there IS a rest of the world, will ya ?
And stop winding us up.

 

[Handley_Page]

It's not a fix it situation. It's a matter of pressure. The pressure of the water getting there and the pressure on the well head valve that needs to be closed. That is, if the valve is still in working order after the rig sank and took the casing above the valve with it.

At 1500 feet depth, it is not going to be a gentle swim down to switch the damned thing off. I presume there are submersibles (I presume that's how the valve got fitted), which fitted the thing in the first place. What I've not seen yet is a decent description of what the installation actually IS - exploration or Production.

So would some expert kindly give us ignorant ones the gentle SP about it before the whole atlantic is covered ??

 

[Loring2]

Here! Here!

Red fought oil fires, so he wouldn't be much help. This problem's a different animal with the level of difficulty similar to removing a brain tumor through the patients asshole.

Where's Captain Nemo when you need him?

Excellant metaphor. This whole thing seems to have a movieish quality about it, and some of the hoopla is resulting from computer driven emulations about oil dispersion toward the coast.
The beaches will not be the problem, the bayeaux and greenery will be

 

[Loring2]

Here! Here!

Red fought oil fires, so he wouldn't be much help. This problem's a different animal with the level of difficulty similar to removing a brain tumor through the patients asshole.

Where's Captain Nemo when you need him?

Excellant metaphor. This whole thing seems to have a movieish quality about it, and some of the hoopla is resulting from computer driven emulations about oil dispersion toward the coast.
The beaches will not be the problem, the bayeaux and greenery will be

 

[Loring2]

Here! Here!

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