What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Can you tell us then how recession was declared by the "impartial" press knowing that the only way to know was in the method described, as a historical measure?

Of course, by the way the press wants to tell the story, we are now in a recovery, and that's the same damned fallacy.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

*double post*

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Can you tell us then how recession was declared by the "impartial" press knowing that the only way to know was in the method described, as a historical measure?

Of course, by the way the press wants to tell the story, we are now in a recovery, and that's the same damned fallacy.

*laugh*
Now the NBER is the press?
Ah, so anything that disagrees with your view is obviously a "vast liberal media conspiracy"?

We weren't in a recession that we are now not recovering from.. Gotcha..

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Who said the NBER?

I said that without the "historical" analysis, the press declared recession and I asked you how could they do that?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Who said the NBER?

I said that without the "historical" analysis, the press declared recession and I asked you how could they do that?

I was talking about the NBER, you know, the ones who said that the recession began in late 2007 after looking at that historical data you and yours spent a year ignoring and denying..

You seem to be hung up on the people who were reporting the findings instead of the findings themselves. What's that thing you harp on when anyone else does it again Cap'n ad Hominem?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Again, they had to look back, but Democrats were declaring it, and not for the first time in an election cycle JUST like they are now trying to pedal the story that the recovery has begun, BEFORE your precious NBER can do it FORENSIC analysis...

In other words, to you, the economy is whatever you want to say it is and facts are merely a political nuisance.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

In short, because there WERE no facts, we were justified in saying that YOU could not claim a recession...




Go back and look.

 

[firespin]

Ah, the master fact checker.. interesting caveat.. "when measured by change in GDP"..

Ignore that the economy was shedding jobs throughout the last 10 months of 2008 and that real personal income had been stagnant for far longer than that. In addition to the GDP the NBER also looked at real personal income, industrial production as well as wholesale and retail sales. All of those measures reached a peak between November 2007 and June 2008.

Do you think you can find a chart that tells why exactly the National Bureau of Economic Research declared that recession actually began in December 2007 after looking at all of the economic indicators? You know, instead of cherry picking one figure that looked half-assed OK for part of the year?

Half of the last ten months of 2008 was after July, yes?

Recessions are typically defined in terms of GDP, but others can use their own definition of course.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Oh, NOTHING, but NOTHING can stop the American recovery now!

Greek Mythology
Victor Davis Hanson
NRO

Anyone who lived in Greece in the pre-EU days and compared that era to the booming present might — both empirically and in anecdotal fashion — wager that Greece will never, never pay back what it owes.

The country's former, rather modest infrastructure, along with its hotels, private homes, ships, ferries, and transportation, used to reflect Greece's relaxed culture — one of siestas, plentiful holidays, a bloated civil service, chronic tax avoidance, Byzantine and neglected regulations, and an avrio atmosphere — one that could not possibly translate into the extravagant second homes, new infrastructure, luxury hotels, and upscale shops that one now sees everywhere in Greece.

All of this suggests that much of the boom of the last 20 years was predicated on borrowed, cheap-interest Northern European money, together with an expectation that the tourist boom would continue without end. That was supposed to subsidize a level of consumption that was not sustained by commensurate evidence of Greek productivity, healthy demography, or a pro-business atmosphere.

In other words, I don't see how Greeks will ever pay back what they owe.

At some point, the holders of bonds wagered that either (a) tourism would continue to grow geometrically, (b) the Greeks would someday adopt Germanic notions of work, savings, and retirement, or (c) the Germans would ultimately accept that conservative Bavarians would have to pay for the liberal lifestyle of others as the price of protecting their formerly lucrative notion of the euro. And sooner or later, those bondholders may well have to eat their wager when Greece defaults in Argentinian style.

 

[mercury14]

Remember the heady halcyon days of blaming Bush for lack of response to Katrina?





Enquiring minds want to know, what did Obama do for Louisiana?

Score a hole in one?

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/obama_cheating_scandal_vera_baker_video_/celebrity/68589

Tiger says, ONE? don't you mean four?

What kind of a moron puts Katrina in the same category as the slick?

 

[Luk]

Once again, I deal with construction documents all day. Public and private sector and my business has grown over the past year.

How much more of a fucking indicator do you need?

Fuckers.

 

[mercury14]

Half of the last ten months of 2008 was after July, yes?

Recessions are typically defined in terms of GDP, but others can use their own definition of course.

The dumbed-down evening news version is defined in terms of the GDP and ignores a whole host of other factors, yes.

 

[firespin]

The dumbed-down evening news version is defined in terms of the GDP and ignores a whole host of other factors, yes.

Just to be clear, when our buddy UD uses NBER, this is what he's citing:

"A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. A recession begins just after the economy reaches a peak of activity and ends as the economy reaches its trough. Between trough and peak, the economy is in an expansion. Expansion is the normal state of the economy; most recessions are brief and they have been rare in recent decades.

So, when a recession begins, by their definition, the economy is still performing essentially at its peak level.

http://www.nber.org/cycles/recessions.html

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

What kind of a moron puts Katrina in the same category as the slick?

Tell me the difference moron.

 

[mercury14]

Tell me the difference moron.

The fact that you even asked this question proves you're a colossal idiot.


It's funny as hell though that your entire argument depends on Katrina and the slick being about the same thing.

You're parroting the hell out of Rush Limbaugh today. Did you have the radio on while cleaning the drains?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

We get your message idiot...

 

[unregistered]

 

[busybody..]

What kind of a moron puts Katrina in the same category as the slick?

The NEW YORK TIMES did

TODAY!

 

[busybody..]

Tell me the difference moron.

El TurdOH!

Must NOT have shop lifted his copy of the NYTimes today!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

What kind of a moron puts Katrina in the same category as the slick?

Well, you know...morons are as morons do, after all.

Memo to media: Timeline contradicts "Obama's Katrina" claim

April 30, 2010 7:05 pm ET

A timeline of events following the catastrophic Gulf of Mexico oil spill belies the absurd media claim that the spill represents "Obama's Katrina."

April 20 (10 p.m.): Oil rig explosion. An April 21 ABCNews.com article reported, "An overnight explosion in the Gulf of Mexico rocked the Deepwater Horizon oil rig off the Louisiana coast, sending spectacular bursts of flame into the sky. The fires were still raging today." The U.S. Coast Guard's National Oil and Hazardous Substances Response System assigns primary responsibility for cleaning up oil spills to the spiller as the responsible party.

April 21: Deputy Secretary of Interior, Coast Guard dispatched to region. An April 22 White House statement noted that following a briefing with President Obama, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Thad Allen, Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, EPA Deputy Administrator Bob Perciasepe, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, "Deputy Secretary of the Interior David Hayes was dispatched to the region yesterday to assist with coordination and response." The Coast Guard announced that four units were responding to the fire, with additional units en route.

Search and rescue efforts begin for 11 missing. An initial focus of the response was the search for 11 missing crewmembers. The search was called off April 23.
BP confirms U.S. Coast Guard was "leading the emergency response" In an April 21 press release, British Petroleum stated that it was "working closely with Transocean and the U.S. Coast Guard, which is leading the emergency response, and had been offering its help - including logistical support."
CNN.com: "The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort." An April 22 CNN.com article reported:
The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort Wednesday for 11 people missing after a "catastrophic" explosion aboard an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico engulfed the drilling platform in flames.

Another 17 people were injured -- three critically -- in the blast aboard the Deepwater Horizon, which occurred about 10 p.m. Tuesday. The rig was about 52 miles southeast of Venice, Louisiana, said Coast Guard Senior Chief Petty Officer Mike O'Berry. As of late afternoon Wednesday as many as six firefighting vessels were working to contain the massive fire caused by the explosion.

"It obviously was a catastrophic event," O'Berry said.

April 23: Coast Guard "focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water." On April 23, the Coast Guard stated:

The Department of the Interior, MMS [the U.S. Minerals Management Service], and the Coast Guard continue to support the efforts of the responsible parties to secure all potential sources of pollution. Both federal agencies have technical teams in place overseeing the proposals by BP and Transocean to completely secure the well. Until that has occurred and all parties are confident the risk of additional spill is removed, a high readiness posture to respond will remain in place.

Although the oil appears to have stopped flowing from the well head, Coast Guard, BP, Transocean, and MMS remain focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water and preparing for a worst-case scenario in the event the seal does not hold. Visual feed from deployed remotely operated vehicles with sonar capability is continually monitored in an effort to look for any crude oil which still has the potential to emanate from the subsurface well.

"From what we have observed yesterday and through the night, we are not seeing any signs of release of crude in the subsurface area. However we remain in a 'ready to respond' mode and are working in a collaborative effort with BP, the responsible party, to prepare for a worst-case scenario," Landry stated early Friday morning.

April 25: Response team implements plan to contain oil spilling from source, weather delays cleanup.

Storms delay response efforts. An April 25 Associated Press article reported, "Stormy weather delayed weekend efforts to mop up leaking oil from a damaged well after the explosion and sinking of a massive rig off Louisiana's Gulf Coast that left 11 workers missing and presumed dead." AP further reported:
The bad weather began rolling in Friday as strong winds, clouds and rain interrupted efforts to contain the spill. Coast Guard Petty Officer John Edwards said he was uncertain when weather conditions would improve enough for cleanup to resume. So far, he said, crews have retrieved about 1,052 barrels of oily water.

Oil recovery and cleanup were to resume after adverse weather passed. On April 25, the unified command team responding to the spill stated:
The unified command is implementing intervention efforts in an attempt to contain the source of oil emanating from the wellhead at the Deepwater Horizon incident site Sunday.

The unified command has approved a plan that utilizes submersible remote operated vehicles in an effort to activate the blowout preventer on the sea floor and to stop the flow of oil that has been estimated at leaking up to 1,000 barrels/42,000 gallons a day.

Also, BP is mobilizing the DD3, a drilling rig that is expected to arrive Monday to prepare for relief well-drilling operations.

Additionally, the oil recovery and clean-up operations are expected to resume once adverse weather has passed. These efforts are part of the federally approved oil spill contingency plan that is in place to respond to environmental incidents.

April 26: Response crews "to resume skimming operations." On April 26, the response team stated, "Sunday, an aircrew from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sighted five small whales during an over flight in the vicinity of the oil spill, which currently measures 48 miles by 39 miles at its widest points with varying levels of sheening, and is located 30 miles off the coast of Venice, La." The command team further stated, "Following adverse weather that went through the area, response crews are anticipated to resume skimming operations today," including 1,000 personnel, 10 offshore vessels, 7 skimming boats and more than 14,000 gallons of dispersant. At that point 48,384 gallons of oily water had been collected.


April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe. An April 28 New York Times article reported, "Government officials said late Wednesday night that oil might be leaking from a well in the Gulf of Mexico at a rate five times that suggested by initial estimates." The Times further reported:

In a hastily called news conference, Rear Adm. Mary E. Landry of the Coast Guard said a scientist from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration had concluded that oil is leaking at the rate of 5,000 barrels a day, not 1,000 as had been estimated. While emphasizing that the estimates are rough given that the leak is at 5,000 feet below the surface, Admiral Landry said the new estimate came from observations made in flights over the slick, studying the trajectory of the spill and other variables.

An April 30 Associated Press article reported, "For days, as an oil spill spread in the Gulf of Mexico, BP assured the government the plume was manageable, not catastrophic. Federal authorities were content to let the company handle the mess while keeping an eye on the operation." The article continued:

But then government scientists realized the leak was five times larger than they had been led to believe, and days of lulling statistics and reassuring words gave way Thursday to an all-hands-on-deck emergency response. Now questions are sure to be raised about a self-policing system that trusted a commercial operator to take care of its own mishap even as it grew into a menace imperiling Gulf Coast nature and livelihoods from Florida to Texas.

April 29: Napolitano declares spill "of national significance"; BP insists its "plan can handle this spill." On April 29, BP official Doug Suttles appeared on ABC's Good Morning America and stated, "At this point, I believe our plan can handle this spill, and that's what we're doing." That day, Napolitano declared the spill "of national significance," explaining that "we can now draw down assets from across the country, other coastal areas, by way of example; that we will have a centralized communications because the spill is now crossing different regions."

EPA preparing for oil to hit shore. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson commented at an April 29 press briefing: "[A]s the oil does hit the shoreline, EPA will provide support to assess the impacts on the coastal shoreline and play a key role in implementing the cleanup. As a daughter of the Gulf Coast, I know that it is our job to ensure people that we will be eyes and ears working with the states who have valuable and vital resources to monitor air, water and land quality." Jackson also stated that the EPA has deployed air-monitoring aircraft "that is gathering information on the impact of the controlled burn on air quality, both in the area of the burn, and, of course, further away."
AP: "Air Force sends planes to help with Gulf oil spill." An April 30 Associated Press article reported: "Two Air Force planes have been sent to Mississippi and were awaiting orders to start dumping chemicals on the oil spill threatening the coast, as the government worked Friday to determine how large a role the military should play in the cleanup."
WSJ: Navy joins Obama's "robust response." An April 30 Wall Street Journal article reported that "The U.S. Navy said it will send more than 12 additional miles of inflatable oil booms to the Gulf, as well as seven towable skimming systems and 50 contractors with experience operating the equipment." The article continued: "The Navy is making two large facilities available to the Coast Guard personnel and BP-employed contractors who are currently taking the lead in fighting the spill. Military officials said the booms and skimmers were being sent to a Naval construction base in Gulfport, Miss. The Navy also opened its air base in Pensacola, Fla., to the effort."

— J.H. & J.M.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004300053

 

[mercury14]

The NEW YORK TIMES did

TODAY!

So then the NY Times was saying silly things. What's your point?

Is there any way you can disagree with them without shitting a brick?

 

[firespin]

Well, you know...morons are as morons do, after all.

Memo to media: Timeline contradicts "Obama's Katrina" claim

You're cute when you cut and paste stuff.

Did you actually read that? It says that, other than dealing with the missing crewmen, basically nothing happened to address the oil spill for the first week.

Not sure why you post that (twice) as exculpatory evidence.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

You're cute when you cut and paste stuff.

Did you actually read that? It says that, other than dealing with the missing crewmen, basically nothing happened to address the oil spill for the first week.

Not sure why you post that (twice) as exculpatory evidence.

Because Bizzy needed some schooling as to what verity means instead of hyperbole.

This oil spill has zilch to do with Katrina, or any comparison of the response times of presiding disaster presidents thereof. Let's just cut the meme-soundbite bullshit jerking off here. It's overdone.

And nothing I could cut and paste in the name of cuteness will ever come close to your beauty and diva magnificence when you do your graph/stat/chart/diagram vogue dance down the runways here in explanation of how the world works according to you, Naomi.

 

[mercury14]

You're cute when you cut and paste stuff.

Did you actually read that? It says that, other than dealing with the missing crewmen, basically nothing happened to address the oil spill for the first week.

Not sure why you post that (twice) as exculpatory evidence.

That timeline makes note of the oil spill being addressed on the 23, 25, and 26.

How are you not seeing that?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

That timeline makes note of the oil spill being addressed on the 23, 25, and 26.

How are you not seeing that?

He sees it and he can't say shit about it or graph his way to smugness in detracting it like he'd like to do as usual, so instead, he goes for the distractive tract.