The Function of the Church; Priests & Nuns in the 21st Century?

[amicus]

I suppose this was generated by watching Angels and Demons a few nights ago and previously "The Da Vinci Code", both films concerning the Catholic Church.

I also watched :"Doubt" with Meryl Streep a few weeks ago...if that is pertinent.

I confess almost total ignorance on Church affairs and many of my assumptions may be in error.

Also, tonight I watched, "Amish Grace", concerning the murder of several Amish schoolgirls sometime back.

I will attempt to remain non political and not anti religious, but the entire question of the Church and its members in the 21st century is somewhat of a puzzle to me.

There have been questions over the years of whether Priests and Nuns should be or are, celibate and I think that varies from church to church.

It also appears that many of the modern conveniences are shunned by the Church, although, that too, may be a misassumption of mine.

It really isn't a question of the faith of the masses, but rather those who minister to that faith and why they continue to do so in an age of increasing disbelief in Religion in general.

As many of my debates on this forum concern ethics and morals and there is such a wide disparity between the modern, intellectual concepts of morals and ethics and that of most/many churches, how does that play out when one creates a character and runs into a moral dilemma in the plot line?

I have a little wank story that came to mind a day ago, but both of the characters are church goers and young and the do's and don't of sexual exploration and consumation has a bearing on their behavior.

Comments?

Amicus Veritas

 

[Boxlicker101]

One thing that priests and nuns do is give us a juicy subject for dirty stories.

 

[amicus]

Having survived a hormonal driven youth, somehow, I wonder at the concept of celibacy among a group of men and groups of women who study and then become advocates for their church.

dunno???

Ami

 

[bronzeage]

Having survived a hormonal driven youth, somehow, I wonder at the concept of celibacy among a group of men and groups of women who study and then become advocates for their church.

dunno???

Ami

Celibacy was originally a ban on marriage. It was not a specific vow of chastity, although some orders vowed that as well.

Institutional celibacy became the rule as church wealth grew. It was impossible to stop men from diverting church wealth to their own use, if they had a family. A celibate priest should have no concern for what happened after his death (on earth, at least), so there was no purpose to amassing a fortune for his heirs. The church would be his family and his only concern.

Eventually, celibacy and chastity became synonymous, because sexual relationships proved to be just as distracting as marital ones.

 

[stephen55]

Having survived a hormonal (sic) driven youth, somehow, I wonder at the concept of celibacy among (sic) a group of men and groups of women who study and then become advocates for their church.

dunno???

Ami

I have no doubt.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The function of celibacy and poverty and the other vows is to erect barriers to temptation and influence from both directions.

The function of the church is to do good.

So what is good?

The church solves the delemma of community will vs. individual liberty.

 

[driphoney]

The function of celibacy and poverty and the other vows is to erect barriers to temptation and influence from both directions.

The function of the church is to do good.

So what is good?

The church solves the delemma of community will vs. individual liberty.

Great summary, JBJ. In four sentences you did more sociology than my prof has managed in 3 months.

The church's attempts to curb behavior actually do a good job of showing how hard it is for institutions to do so.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DRIP HONEY

Back in 1821 my ancestor was a Methodist preacher in Kentucky.

The Methodist canons prohibited clergy owning slaves, and my ancestor was tried in an ecclesiastical court for buying a slave and freeing her.

They had a big trial and plenty of officials brought in evidence to confirm the transgression. My ancestor sat quietly thru the prosecution, and when it was his turn he rose, confirmed that everything said against him was true, then told the bishops that his function as clergy is to do good. And he sat down.

They acquitted him.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Originally the Catholic Church did not have a ban on it's priests being celibate. It wasn't until syphilis was running rampant through the priesthood that the pope declare that all priests of the order to be celibate.

It seemed a priest didn't care where he stuck his dick man, woman or beast they were all the same to him.

 

[driphoney]

Originally the Catholic Church did not have a ban on it's priests being celibate. It wasn't until syphilis was running rampant through the priesthood that the pope declare that all priests of the order to be celibate.

It seemed a priest didn't care where he stuck his dick man, woman or beast they were all the same to him.

When was that?

 

[LaRocha]

There's never been a priest or nun I've seen worthy of a fantasy.

The Ukrainian portion of the Catholic Church, or Eastern Rite Catholics, allow their priests to marry. It's always been a strange conflict. The only reason they made the concession was to stick it to the Eastern Orthodox. Every reason the Catholic church gives for not letting their priests marry is undermined by the fact that a portion of their priests can leave divinity school a priest and then marry.

The Church created temptation, then erected barriers within its priesthood to institutionalize temptation. The Seven Deadly Sins are really non-issues until the Scholastics come along.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

When was that?

Fifteenth century.

 

[xssve]

As many of my debates on this forum concern ethics and morals and there is such a wide disparity between the modern, intellectual concepts of morals and ethics and that of most/many churches, how does that play out when one creates a character and runs into a moral dilemma in the plot line?

Well first of all, you assume that "modern" morals and ethics, are modern - in fact, what you like to call "liberal" values can be found in every culture that ever existed, the Catholic clergy itself has more skeletons in it's closet than all the "liberals" combined, by orders of magnitude.

Fact is, your "traditional values" mostly only date back the Ninteenth century, and they are only "traditional" in the sense that Anthony Comstock, representing a distinctly minority view, managed to get his way - it's straight up Ninteenth century paternalism, you know, we're all children that have to be protected from ourselves lest we start gettin' ideas and thinking for ourselves.

So to start with, it's a bunch of bullshit, but I'll explain it to you if you want.

What's your moral dillema?

 

[xssve]

The function of celibacy and poverty and the other vows is to erect barriers to temptation and influence from both directions.

The function of the church is to do good.

So what is good?

The church solves the delemma of community will vs. individual liberty.

What, by removing any temptations towards individual liberty?

 

[oggbashan]

When discussing Priests, Nuns and Monks you need to distinguish between open and closed orders.

Closed orders are rare. The Nuns or Monks distance themselves from the rest of the world and pray for (our) salvation. In England prior to Henry VIII, even closed orders would provide hospitality for travellers and care for the sick - or rather they should. Part of Henry's investigations found that some, fewer than were actually alleged, just lived lives of comparative luxury.

Open orders are very much part of the world and typically work to improve society for example by running hospitals and schools, caring for the sick, elderly and disabled, and helping those who cannot help themselves.

Priests usually have a "cure", or church responsibility for the population in a defined area unless they are very senior holding offices within the church when they can be managers, administrators or executives.

Most Literotica stories would refer to closed orders. Many medieval stories about licentious monks and nuns were about open orders - because the opportunities for sexual encounters were greater. Chaucer was very rude about some Church functionaries. Friars, particularly mendicant friars, were fair game for rude stories. They took the place in jokes of the time that became the role of commercial travellers in the 20th Century.

In some of my stories, the traditional monk or nun's costume is used as a disguise because it concealed so much. Modern costume for both is little more than a uniform.

Og

 

[CharleyH]

There are still churches, priests and nuns in the 21st Century?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What, by removing any temptations towards individual liberty?

Influence.