multiple categories

[stebbinsd]

I know I can't possibly be the only author who feels this way.

I've submitted a couple of stories without registering, and I have to choose ONE category, even if the plot of the story can fit in more than one.

For example, and incest orgy can fall into a number of categories. Incest and Group Sex are the two most obvious ones, but what about gay sex (an orgy, at least two people HAVE to be of the same sex). Also, fetish, first-time (incest stories are typically those of taking lil' sissy's virginity), mature, loving wives (I'm sure the mother is involved in an ORGY), and a whole array of others.

Or, what about a story about a honeymoon? Does that belong in...

Romance
Loving Wives
or First Time?

Maybe they were an interracial couple! If you put that in one of the above three, interracial fetishists will have a hard time finding it.

Shouldn't you be allowed to list multiple categories by holding down the Ctrl button?

 

[Darkniciad]

Not as good of an idea as you think. There are a lot of "tribal" readers on Lit. They camp out in their categories and shoot anyone who they don't think belongs with nasty comments and emails.

Just from your example:

Gay readers don't want any women sexually involved in a story
Lesbian readers don't want any men sexually involved in a story
Most categories have a fit if any M/M happens.
Incest can get you screamed at in any other category.
If everybody isn't related by blood, there are those who don't want it in incest

You get the picture. Assigning multiple categories is asking to be shot at from every one of the tribal groups. You'll have a score of 1.1 and two hundred comments telling you what a "shit writer" you are.

A better solution would be more categories/sub categories, or a stronger, more prominant keyword system that could provide subdivisons of the categories.

As it is, you just have to decide where the trump factors are. Again, from your example, I would go with incest/taboo. First, it's a hot button that can turn off people in nearly every other category. Second, those readers are a bit more tolerant of men getting touchy-feelie with each other than most categories, so long as they're related by blood. Group activity is often a standard in the category, so that's not an issue. Age has no meaning to a lot of the readership, so long as they're related by blood. So on and so forth.

It's not perfect, and it takes getting to know the readership of the categories through study of the comments on other stories or experimentation, but it's the best we've got for the moment.

Oh, and anything you post in Loving Wives will be shot at from every side anyway. That category has its own little civil war going on.

 

[stebbinsd]

Not as good of an idea as you think. There are a lot of "tribal" readers on Lit. They camp out in their categories and shoot anyone who they don't think belongs with nasty comments and emails.

Just from your example:

Gay readers don't want any women sexually involved in a story
Lesbian readers don't want any men sexually involved in a story
Most categories have a fit if any M/M happens.
Incest can get you screamed at in any other category.
If everybody isn't related by blood, there are those who don't want it in incest

You get the picture. Assigning multiple categories is asking to be shot at from every one of the tribal groups. You'll have a score of 1.1 and two hundred comments telling you what a "shit writer" you are.

A better solution would be more categories/sub categories, or a stronger, more prominant keyword system that could provide subdivisons of the categories.

As it is, you just have to decide where the trump factors are. Again, from your example, I would go with incest/taboo. First, it's a hot button that can turn off people in nearly every other category. Second, those readers are a bit more tolerant of men getting touchy-feelie with each other than most categories, so long as they're related by blood. Group activity is often a standard in the category, so that's not an issue. Age has no meaning to a lot of the readership, so long as they're related by blood. So on and so forth.

It's not perfect, and it takes getting to know the readership of the categories through study of the comments on other stories or experimentation, but it's the best we've got for the moment.

Oh, and anything you post in Loving Wives will be shot at from every side anyway. That category has its own little civil war going on.

Oh, I get it.

What I don't get is why we don't just ban them.

Honestly, if they're going to flame you, rather than give constructive criticism, why are they allowed to make comments at all?

Just ban them if they troll and flame!

Problem solved.

 

[polynices]

Given the way this website is set up, I think the 'multiple categories' idea would be difficult to implement. However, I do take the point that stories often don't fall neatly into a given category - and, in fact, having to write 'to' a certain category may sometimes limit the way a writer is able to develop a story.

Having to post a story in a specific category tends to negate any element of surprise that an author would like to include. If a story is posted in 'Group Sex', for example, it's obvious from the outset that an orgy, or at least a threesome, is going to ensue at some point, even though the author may have preferred to save that revelation for dramatic effect at a later stage in the narrative.

One possible solution might be to introduce a new 'Pot Luck' category, so that authors would have the option of posting uncategorized stories. Of course, that would mean readers of 'Pot Luck' stories wouldn't know what was coming in advance, so they'd have to risk being 'squicked' by material they didn't like. Still, I think a clear readers' warning could be put at the head of 'Pot Luck', mentioning this possibility. And, of course, no 'Pot Luck' story would be allowed to break any of the existing Literotica guidelines and prohibitions.

- polynices

 

[Darkniciad]

Oh, I get it.

What I don't get is why we don't just ban them.

Honestly, if they're going to flame you, rather than give constructive criticism, why are they allowed to make comments at all?

Just ban them if they troll and flame!

Problem solved.

The only bannable offenses that exist on Lit are spamming and posting personal information of another user.

Beyond that, free speech is the rule. You can be the most hateful, racist, foul-mouthed, braindamaged piece of human garbage who ever walked the planet, and you're free to roam at will, saying anything you want on any part of the site. You can scream "fire" in a crowded theater or claim you have a bomb on the plane around here whenever the whim strikes you

As an author, you have the ability to turn off comments, or delete those that you don't think are appropriate. On the forum, the ignore feature is your recourse. Say anything about that being insufficient, and you'll see the tribals on the forum.

Banning isn't remotely foolproof anyway. It's only effective against those who don't have any interest in returning, and those who are nearly computer illiterate.

 

[stebbinsd]

The only bannable offenses that exist on Lit are spamming and posting personal information of another user.

Beyond that, free speech is the rule. You can be the most hateful, racist, foul-mouthed, braindamaged piece of human garbage who ever walked the planet, and you're free to roam at will, saying anything you want on any part of the site. You can scream "fire" in a crowded theater or claim you have a bomb on the plane around here whenever the whim strikes you

As an author, you have the ability to turn off comments, or delete those that you don't think are appropriate. On the forum, the ignore feature is your recourse. Say anything about that being insufficient, and you'll see the tribals on the forum.

Banning isn't remotely foolproof anyway. It's only effective against those who don't have any interest in returning, and those who are nearly computer illiterate.

A lot of that stuff is not Literotica's decision to make.

In the case of harassment (the shouting of profanities that is likely to invoke a violent retaliation) absolutely MUST be silenced by those who have the power to do so (normally police, but in this case, the Literotica webmasters).

Also, if we have such recourse, why don't they let us use multiple categories, and if anyone tries to flame me, I can block them, no fuss no muss?

 

[polynices]

A better solution would be more categories/sub categories, or a stronger, more prominant keyword system that could provide subdivisons of the categories.

I agree with this. The Fetish category, in particular, is so general that it's almost useless for helping a reader decide if a particular Fetish story is for him/her. Sub-categories would be very useful there.

- polynices

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with this. The Fetish category, in particular, is so general that it's almost useless for helping a reader decide if a particular Fetish story is for him/her. Sub-categories would be very useful there.

- polynices

I'm not sure that sub-categories in Fetish would work. The range of possible fetishes is so wide that there would either need to be a large number of sub-categories, or even the sub-categories wouldn't be of much use to deciding whether a particular story is the right fetish.

For example: I have written Fetish stories about long hair, corsets, unbirth, face-sitting, many about FemDom, about petticoats and skirts, scarf bondage etc.

Yet there are many more fetishes out there in the stories. You can find some with the tags e.g. hairy armpits, fur, silk, amputees etc.

Devising subcategories would be a nightmare. Some of my stories, when I search by tags, come up in a list of oggbashan's plus one or two more stories. Other fetish authors have the same restricted lists.

Og

 

[dstebbins]

So, tell me, specifically, why don't we allow our authors to use multiple categories?

 

[Darkniciad]

A lot of that stuff is not Literotica's decision to make.

In the case of harassment (the shouting of profanities that is likely to invoke a violent retaliation) absolutely MUST be silenced by those who have the power to do so (normally police, but in this case, the Literotica webmasters).

Also, if we have such recourse, why don't they let us use multiple categories, and if anyone tries to flame me, I can block them, no fuss no muss?

Why it isn't allowed is likely as simple as it would be an utter pain in the ass to code, requiring major revisions to the enormous database of existing stories. Lit just wasn't coded that way in the beginning, and retrofitting it would be a long, expensive process.

Trust me, you don't want to get into the free speech argument. Seriously, don't do it. *laugh* The only thing that can come of it is deciding that you want no part of this place, or ending up screaming obscenities back at the people screaming obscenities at you.

 

[bronzeage]

So, tell me, specifically, why don't we allow our authors to use multiple categories?

It's a mystery. The Lit story forum is provided to readers and writers at no cost. The only people with a real financial stake in this are the Lit owners and their advertisers.

This is like complaining that the complimentary coffee is served in only one flavor.

You can put specific tags on your story, so that it will show up in searches.

 

[polynices]

So, tell me, specifically, why don't we allow our authors to use multiple categories?

I should think there are quite a lot of reasons. Darkniciad already mentioned one:

"There are a lot of "tribal" readers on Lit. They camp out in their categories ..."

In addition, I don't think you necessarily need to be 'tribal' to have preferences for certain categories of erotica.

I suppose it would be possible to make a radical change to the system and rely on specific tags instead of categories, but that would place the onus on the author to get the tags exactly right - and that may not be a reliable system on its own. It's quite easy to overlook a story element when you're listing tags before you submit a story.

Not having broad categories would also place every story posted on the site in a largely undifferentiated mass, which would make it much more difficult for readers cruising the New Story list, for example, to make choices - and I think that would ultimately be to the author's disadvantage. After all, an author wants people who are likely to enjoy his/her topic to read his/her story, and to have people who won't like the subject matter ignore it. Most erotic story sites I've seen seem to have gone down the category route, probably for those reasons.

That said, I'd still argue for the addition of a 'Pot Luck' option, in the interests of both authors and readers - as I said in my earlier post.

AFTERTHOUGHT: Of course, you were probably thinking of allowing a single story to be included in more than one of the existing category lists. If that was the case, I apologise for overlooking the possibility earlier.

In principle, I can't actually see any objection to listing a story in multiple categories. However, it would probably complicate the system quite a lot, and it would mean the moderators would have to decide on the accuracy of two or more categorizations instead of just one, as at present. It might also complicate the 'Top Lists' system, which, for better or worse, is a significant feature of this site.


- polynices

 

[polynices]

I'm not sure that sub-categories in Fetish would work. The range of possible fetishes is so wide that there would either need to be a large number of sub-categories, or even the sub-categories wouldn't be of much use to deciding whether a particular story is the right fetish.

I do see that, and in the last analysis you may be right. However, a combination of sub-categories and tags might help a bit. For example - and off the top of my head - sub-categories could include 'Clothing' 'Body Parts', 'Bodily Fluids', 'Leather', 'Rubber' and so on - though I accept that there'd have to be a 'Miscellaneous' category as well, to make sure nothing that's been forgotten is excluded.

- polynices

 

[Zeb_Carter]

A lot of that stuff is not Literotica's decision to make.

In the case of harassment (the shouting of profanities that is likely to invoke a violent retaliation) absolutely MUST be silenced by those who have the power to do so (normally police, but in this case, the Literotica webmasters).

Also, if we have such recourse, why don't they let us use multiple categories, and if anyone tries to flame me, I can block them, no fuss no muss?

You must not be from the U.S. where this site resides. Read up on the free speech laws in the U.S. About the only thing you can't do here is yell "fire" in a crowded theater. I can cuss and swear at you all day. I can even tell you I will kill you when I see you. I can call for anyone and everyone to kill you when they see you. All this without being arrested or fined in any manner.

Unless you being harmed is imminent now law was broken. And it can hardly be imminent if I have no idea who you are or where you live. It's just a bunch of meaningless words that I am free to type and/or say.

 

[3113]

A Menu isn't for the Chef

Also, if we have such recourse, why don't they let us use multiple categories, and if anyone tries to flame me, I can block them, no fuss no muss?

You're missing the point--Poly already said this, but I'll echo it. The categories are not about protecting you from being flamed. Go ahead and put an M/M sex in a story in a place where they'll shoot you up for it. Lit is willing to let you take the hit and deal with it. In fact, you're gong to have to take the hit because even an M/M story in the M/M category can get you a trollish comment. Any writer here who allows comments is saying, "I'm willing to be flamed for my story." You're the chef and some customers who come to dine here will complain about the food (sic). Luckily for Lit, Writers of erotic stories are incredibly eager to put up stories and get flamed. They will write and write and write up their erotic fantasies then say, "Can I please post them? Please, Please, Please!" like little kids eager to put their crayon drawings on a refrigerator.

Because of such eagerness from writers, readers have quite a choice, not only of what they want to eat, but which cafeteria to frequent. They can be very picky. If they want their mashed potatoes with cheddar cheese, you'd better have that--no, not with truffles and not with Swiss. Cheddar. If you don't, hey, there are other cafeterias. The categories, like the tag lines, say to the Reader, "But of course, Madam/Sir, right this way. Here are all the mashed potatoes with cheddar cheese you can eat. Enjoy!"

And if you, the chef say, "But I've made mashed potatoes with cheddar, truffles, herbs and prosciutto....why can't I put it in all four categories?" The site will say, "Sorry, but the other three don't like cheddar. Put it in cheddar. We don't want the other three leaving our cafeteria for a different one, and the fool who likes cheddar will actually enjoy that mess." And by the way, Lit will do that. If you pick a category for the story that they really think is wrong, they'll put it in a different one. One category because that makes it easy for the reader. It's not about you. Categories, like a menu, are for the customer, not for the chef. Yes?

 

[sr71plt]

A lot of that stuff is not Literotica's decision to make.

In the case of harassment (the shouting of profanities that is likely to invoke a violent retaliation) absolutely MUST be silenced by those who have the power to do so (normally police, but in this case, the Literotica webmasters).

Also, if we have such recourse, why don't they let us use multiple categories, and if anyone tries to flame me, I can block them, no fuss no muss?

Apparently it is Literotica's decision to make until someone actually gets after them. They've been allowing copyrighted material to be reposted here for years. They have a rule against it, but they are very slack about enforcing the rule, even though it becomes as much their violation as that of the poster who did it.

"MUST" is almost impossible to get on the Internet.

 

[sr71plt]

You must not be from the U.S. where this site resides. Read up on the free speech laws in the U.S. About the only thing you can't do here is yell "fire" in a crowded theater. I can cuss and swear at you all day. I can even tell you I will kill you when I see you. I can call for anyone and everyone to kill you when they see you. All this without being arrested or fined in any manner.

Unless you being harmed is imminent now law was broken. And it can hardly be imminent if I have no idea who you are or where you live. It's just a bunch of meaningless words that I am free to type and/or say.

And you have some reading of the U.S. law to do too, Zeb. You don't have a "right" to do any of these things on this Web site. This is a privately owned business. If the Web site owners want to deny you this activity, they can do so (if they can get it done).

Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to a privately owned Web site, even if registered in the United States.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And you have some reading of the U.S. law to do too, Zeb. You don't have a "right" to do any of these things on this Web site. This is a privately owned business. If the Web site owners want to deny you this activity, they can do so (if they can get it done).

Freedom of Speech doesn't apply to a privately owned Web site, even if registered in the United States.

You are right about that...if they want too. But as we have seen they rarely do to the one off post. Now if I say PM'ed, email'ed and multi-posted those then yes they might/would.

So it is true this web site has control over what is said, but rarely do they push that delete button as advocates of free speech it would be somewhat hypocritical of them to do so.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a mystery. The Lit story forum is provided to readers and writers at no cost. The only people with a real financial stake in this are the Lit owners and their advertisers.

This is like complaining that the complimentary coffee is served in only one flavor.

You can put specific tags on your story, so that it will show up in searches.

What he said.

The tags didn't functions so well when I first came here, but they are pretty effective now.