The "Autism Spectrum" Debate

[R. Richard]

It's easy to assume that an autistic person is handicapped. However, there are high-function autistics who are not only not handicapped in certain areas, but function better than a 'normal person' would, in those specific areas. If the person's autism is such that the autistic can't function well socially, then the autistic doesn't have worry about the social effects of his/her autism. The person who doesn't have to carry a burden can move faster than one who does have to carry the burden.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

It's easy to assume that an autistic person is handicapped. However, there are high-function autistics who are not only not handicapped in certain areas, but function better than a 'normal person' would, in those specific areas. If the person's autism is such that the autistic can't function well socially, then the autistic doesn't have worry about the social effects of his/her autism. The person who doesn't have to carry a burden can move faster than one who does have to carry the burden.

An interesting viewpoint. "He travels fast who travels light and travels alone."--VM

 

[Huckleman2000]

It's easy to assume that an autistic person is handicapped. However, there are high-function autistics who are not only not handicapped in certain areas, but function better than a 'normal person' would, in those specific areas. If the person's autism is such that the autistic can't function well socially, then the autistic doesn't have worry about the social effects of his/her autism. The person who doesn't have to carry a burden can move faster than one who does have to carry the burden.

I used to live and work in clusters of high-tech and bio-tech industries, in places such as Silicon Valley. It's almost axiomatic within those communities that those areas are essentially breeding experiments. Those socially-awkward high-functioning "aspies" seem to excel in certain types of tasks, such as coding software, that are really highly-valued. Add to this the venture-capital industry, and the fact that a decent coder in the right place at the right time can become a paper-billionaire, and you have an atmosphere ripe for ruthlessly social-climbing women from all over the world. The defining story is one of supporting a first-wife's horse farm while living with a Chinese woman and working 60-hour weeks. And children with autism. It's like, Cubicle Love Canal or something. Whether it's something in the environment, or some strange confluence of reinforcing genetics, or some combination of factors, I don't know.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And children with autism. It's like, Cubicle Love Canal or something. Whether it's something in the environment, or some strange confluence of reinforcing genetics, or some combination of factors, I don't know.

My feeling, based on my favorite Dangerous thing EG not enough learning, is that autism is a mixture of a genetic trait-- possibly a vulnerability to it in certain conditions-- plus some sort of prenatal factor which may be more present when aspies are with aspies.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Additionally, there must be some evolutionary advantage to it somewhere or it would have died out. So what is the advantage?

 

[Xelebes]

Additionally, there must be some evolutionary advantage to it somewhere or it would have died out. So what is the advantage?

The danger of saying that is that the same could be said for Down's.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The danger of saying that is that the same could be said for Down's.

Yeah.
While Microsoft has a strange reputation as a workplace, the reality (I think) is stranger. The majority of communication is electronically mediated, mainly via email, but also discussion threads, and so forth. Most workers share an office, but they probably aren't working on the same thing as their office mates, so it's more like an assigned dormitory situation than anything else. People don't talk much. There aren't assigned hours that people have to arrive and leave, but there's sort of a hive-mind, cult-like mentality. Not peer-pressure, exactly, but as if everyone is utterly convinced of the importance of their job, and seeks to execute it flawlessly. There's definitely a hierarchy, because some people who were hired when stock options were plentiful and growth was exponential have become multi-millionaires, while others who were hired more recently have seen their options grow stagnant in comparison, and yet the atmosphere is such that everyone wears casual clothes and works in similar, very pleasant, conditions.

It just struck me as being a really "Brave New World" sort of place, and these were all the Gamma Pluses or something.

 

[Dominique1]

I suffer from asperger's syndrome, but when it comes up I tend to use both "asperger's" and "autism" to mean the same thing. I don't know if this happens to other people on the spectrum, but I'm guessing it probably does.

 

[3113]

So far, my husband has had the best comment--and best argument for keeping the Asperger's label:

"Yeah, right, change the label on Aspies. Because people with Aspergers are so good with change..."

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

 

[Vielle]

I had an internship working with ppl with mental illness and some aspies. Its interesting how much some ppl with aspergers deeply identify with the label. some ppl would be sad to have the category go i think.

as for the validity of the dsm categories, thats a horse of a different color . . .

 

[3113]

The person who doesn't have to carry a burden can move faster than one who does have to carry the burden.

The divorce rate among Aspies is something like 80%. An Aspie (who is, by definition, a high functioning autistic) can do his/her best to view the glass as half full and remind themselves of what they can do that others cannot. But it's still not a full glass. We are still missing something that others have got--something important to relationships, and it takes its toll on those we love, and those who love us in turn.

Going it alone may be fast, but it can be terribly lonely.

So while high functioning autistics can work around their handicap, it is still a handicap that can and does affect them by affecting those they care about.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The divorce rate among Aspies is something like 80%. An Aspie (who is, by definition, a high functioning autistic) can do his/her best to view the glass as half full and remind themselves of what they can do that others cannot. But it's still not a full glass. We are still missing something that others have got--something important to relationships, and it takes its toll on those we love, and those who love us in turn.

Going it alone may be fast, but it can be terribly lonely.

So while high functioning autistics can work around their handicap, it is still a handicap that can and does affect them by affecting those they care about.

It also makes it hard (thought obviously not impossible) to write emotionally engaging characters in a story. Why? Because Aspies have a more difficult time being involved! Perhaps that's why so many of us excel in intellectual pursuits, we're natural observers.

 

[laurafairlie]

It also makes it hard (thought obviously not impossible) to write emotionally engaging characters in a story. Why? Because Aspies have a more difficult time being involved! Perhaps that's why so many of us excel in intellectual pursuits, we're natural observers.

This is very interesting to me. How do you create characters with an emotional component if you have a hard time understanding emotion? Do you rely more on action to convey feeling or something else I haven't thought of? Just curious.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Additionally, there must be some evolutionary advantage to it somewhere or it would have died out. So what is the advantage?

Oh bear, you know better than that.

Humans, if you recall, have changed the way the species responds to evolutionary pressures. We change our culture-- not our genetics. From the moment we developed sentience we have been taking care of our weak members, because they have things to offer the tribe beyond the stereotyped Mighty Hunter simplism.

Autism is not fatal, and doesn't interfere with reproduction, and really doesn't blip on the evolutionary scale of things...

So far, my husband has had the best comment--and best argument for keeping the Asperger's label:

"Yeah, right, change the label on Aspies. Because people with Aspergers are so good with change..."

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

That man is the best friend an Aspie could ever have.

 

[Xelebes]

This is very interesting to me. How do you create characters with an emotional component if you have a hard time understanding emotion? Do you rely more on action to convey feeling or something else I haven't thought of? Just curious.

For one, I avoid omniscient and stick to limited omniscient and first person. I don't dare touch second person. Apart from that, I manage although I am a slow writer.

 

[3113]

This is very interesting to me. How do you create characters with an emotional component if you have a hard time understanding emotion? Do you rely more on action to convey feeling or something else I haven't thought of? Just curious.

Well, we do understand and can convey the big emotions--sorrow, joy, anger--if we convey these well enough, that's usually enough to make the reader connect with characters. And keep in mind that a lot of writers, like Hemmingway, have conveyed emotions with almost nothing but spare dialogue and a few key images. Readers do project and fill in blanks.

But we do sometimes fail or make mistakes. Thank god for editors

Think of an Aspie as someone who is hearing impaired when it comes to emotions. Emotions that you shout we can hear, emotions that are whispered we can't hear at all. And those in between we sometimes catch and sometimes don't. People often mistake an Aspie as being angry with them because they don't seem to be looking or responding to them. But it's like a hard-of-hearing person who doesn't know you're talking to them. They're not ignoring you, you're just not speaking loud enough for them to hear.

 

[R. Richard]

The divorce rate among Aspies is something like 80%. An Aspie (who is, by definition, a high functioning autistic) can do his/her best to view the glass as half full and remind themselves of what they can do that others cannot. But it's still not a full glass. We are still missing something that others have got--something important to relationships, and it takes its toll on those we love, and those who love us in turn.

Going it alone may be fast, but it can be terribly lonely.

So while high functioning autistics can work around their handicap, it is still a handicap that can and does affect them by affecting those they care about.

Then again, how many Aspies are married and who marries them? I suspect the complete answer to my question gets us into areas like, "How many men of five feet in height or less make it in the NBA?"

Isn't there a book about the loneliness of the long distance Aspie?

Also, isn't it a definition that an Aspie has problems caring about others?

 

[Xelebes]

Then again, how many Aspies are married and who marries them? I suspect the complete answer to my question gets us into areas like, "How many men of five feet in height or less make it in the NBA?"

Isn't there a book about the loneliness of the long distance Aspie?

Also, isn't it a definition that an Aspie has problems caring about others?

From what I've seen:

HF Aspergers Male: 75%; Female: 85%
LF Aspergers Male: 40-50%; Female: 50-75%
HF Autism Male: 25-35%; Female: 40-50%
LF->HF Autism Male: 5-15%; Female: 10-15%
LF Autism Male/Female: 0-2%

 

[3113]

Then again, how many Aspies are married and who marries them? I suspect the complete answer to my question gets us into areas like, "How many men of five feet in height or less make it in the NBA?"

I'll introduce you to my very Aspie Uncle who, I would bet you money, has had more hot girl friends than you've met in your lifetime. One hell of a lothario, he was and still is a lanky, absent-minded professor type who lived up to the stereotype from old movies--meaning young, pretty students and female professors were throwing themselves at him.

He ended up (and is still with) an astonishing and brilliant blond (she got her ph.d in biology and engineering) with a kittenish face, petite figure, and manic energy that had her racing in triathlons. All lithe, gymnastic muscle.

So, in regards to Aspies, it would seem your question needs to be how many 6'7" men or taller make it to the NBA. Because a lotta them have no trouble at all landing some very sexy females. I think VM will confirm that.

And why not? The absent minded professor has a mysterious lure about him similar to Mr. Spock, House, and any other number of fictional men, cold, distant, brilliant, difficult, and fatally attractive to women. (I don't know if Aspie women have the same allure, I doubt unless they look like Emily Deschanel on Bones, but thems the breaks). I've known many an Aspie male who had no problem at all landing sizzling hot women--but keeping them is something else altogether.

In that, well, like I said, the divorce rate is high. Falling for a "House" is easy. Living with him long-term is not so easy.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Oh bear, you know better than that.

Humans, if you recall, have changed the way the species responds to evolutionary pressures. We change our culture-- not our genetics. From the moment we developed sentience we have been taking care of our weak members, because they have things to offer the tribe beyond the stereotyped Mighty Hunter simplism.

Autism is not fatal, and doesn't interfere with reproduction, and really doesn't blip on the evolutionary scale of things...That man is the best friend an Aspie could ever have.

Correction, my dearest. We are indeed evolving biologically and it seems that we are evolving faster now than we did a hundred thousand years ago. The changes are at the chemical level, not the physiognomic but they are there. Consider the changes that have occurred in just the last 8 thousand or so years. Lactose tolerance, improved ability to assimilate grains, alcohol tolerance, hemoglobin and lung capacity increase in high altitude populations . . . the list is fascinating. And all of this has taken place since the development of agriculture. No, human evolution today is far from limited to culture.

 

[Xelebes]

And why not? The absent minded professor has a mysterious lure about him similar to Mr. Spock, House, and any other number of fictional men, cold, distant, brilliant, difficult, and fatally attractive to women. (I don't know if Aspie women have the same allure, I doubt unless they look like Emily Deschanel on Bones, but thems the breaks). I've known many an Aspie male who had no problem at all landing sizzling hot women--but keeping them is something else altogether.

As I implied in my post, Aspie women have less difficulties. There are quite a few who are self-proclaimed asexual or will shy from any relationships, but those that have a desire usually find it easier than men - mostly because there are more aspie men than aspie women and the women tend to prefer aspie men.

 

[Guest]

As I implied in my post, Aspie women have less difficulties. There are quite a few who are self-proclaimed asexual or will shy from any relationships, but those that have a desire usually find it easier than men - mostly because there are more aspie men than aspie women and the women tend to prefer aspie men.

We do?

We like them, yes. I don't know if we prefer them.

One child psych told us that Asperger's folks tend to just find each other, almost like being swept up in the same currents and deposited on the same stretch of beach. Flotsam and jetsam.

We have to find each other. No one else understands us.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

We do?

We like them, yes. I don't know if we prefer them.

One child psych told us that Asperger's folks tend to just find each other, almost like being swept up in the same currents and deposited on the same stretch of beach. Flotsam and jetsam.

We have to find each other. No one else understands us.

Fortunately, some of us just get lucky and find someone with a taste for the peculiar. I'm not sure how I'd manage otherwise.

 

[where]

As someone who has in the past worked in schools with pupils on the AS (and I prefer AS because a spectrum implies a degree of individuality and heterogeneity), I find the label pretty meaningless beyond being a passport to access extra help. the problem with this and indeed any other label around disability is it assumes a homogeneity which just doesn't exist. I don't know if it is so much of a movement in the US, but in the UK the neurodiversity movement is really challenging so many of the labels around ASDs, especially in terms of rights.

 

[Stella_Omega]

By a nice coincidence, the spring edition of Ethos Journal of Psychological Anthropology is titled; "rethinking Autism, Rethinking Anthropology"

it brings together work from scholars of education, occupational science, anthro. Its goals are "to highlight the importance of rethinking research on this issue, away from the dominant biomedical focus to a more phenomenological and ethnographic stance that addresses experiences of living with autism," and to "rethink possibilities for social interaction and participation for people with autism."

It's nice to know that the discussion is happening!