the top ten benefits you'll get when healthcare reform passes;

[Stella_Omega]

As soon as health care passes, the American people will see immediate benefits. The legislation will:

* Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans;
* Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool;
* Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans;
* Lower seniors prescription drug prices by beginning to close the donut hole;
* Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage;
* Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans;
* Require plans to cover an enrollee’s dependent children until age 26;
* Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing;
* Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions;
* Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs.

By enacting these provisions right away, and others over time, we will be able to lower costs for everyone and give all Americans and small businesses more control over their health care choices.

 

[Dragonlipz]

I don't care about health care for anyone else

besides myself!
I'm a patriot and it's not American or patriotic to have healthcare for those who can't afford health insurance.....Why would we want people who can't afford it or have a preexisting condition to get off from paying like the rest of us patriots do? huh? They aren't any better than me, I don't see why I ought to pay for anyone else!
I'm an American and I'm self-sufficient! I don't care about anyone else! It's in the Constitution! That's what it says....Glenn Beck said so! And he wrote it on the chalkboard! It must be true! Reverend Dennis Prager says that God provides for those who believe and provide for him....He's a reverend and cannot lie!
So if your mulatto president and socialist congress give you free health care, who pays for it? Everybody who works and isn't a nigger, right Amicus? Right, Zeb Carter? Right JBJ?
We white folks can't keep paying for you niggers to breed......You don't deserve healthcare....Right Amicus?
Right JBJ?
We need to get out those sheets! Tea Party Forever!!!!!!!

 

[DeeZire]

As soon as health care passes, the American people will see immediate benefits. The legislation will:.....

So, there's nothing in there about Candy Stripers? Shit! Now I'm bummed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So, there's nothing in there about Candy Stripers? Shit! Now I'm bummed.

We get this passed now, and we'll take care of the missing stuff later.

..What, you don't believe me?

 

[DeeZire]

We get this passed now, and we'll take care of the missing stuff later.

..What, you don't believe me?

Regarding "missing stuff", am I correct in assuming you're speaking of Candy Stripers (over the age of 18) without panties? That's worth waiting for.

 

[Darkniciad]

Sorry. I'm going to have to break the chain.

How does this bill decrease costs and increase choice for everyone?

I'm being serious, not argumentative. Everywhere this bill is mentioned, they say that, but it always seems to be coupled only to lists that logically would increase insurance premiums due to the increased costs to insurance companies, who are naturally going to pass it down.

Where's the list of what balances all this out, and tips it in the other direction?

 

[Carnevil9]

The best part of Health Care Reform is that we'll all be able to get Something for Nothing, because some generic Rich Dude will be forced to pay for something that We Want but that We Can't Afford because we are all Losers! Yay!!!!!

 

[DeeZire]

....Where's the list of what balances all this out, and tips it in the other direction?

One theory holds that with the increased enrollment of more healthy young people, their premiums will offset the costs associated with the pre-existing condition crowd. Plus, if everyone has insurance, the costs for hospitals would go down, since they would be doing less free care for the uninsured. The only realistic way to lower costs is with a single-payer system, but we all know that ain't gonna happen any time soon - it's just too logical for American politics.

There is also talk of changing the reimbursement model, stressing outcomes rather than procedures. There are some tort reform test projects in the bill, but CBO estimates indicate tort reform would only produce a savings of a couple of percentage points.

The CBO did score the latest plan as reducing the deficit over ten years, which is the opposite of the Medicare drug bill the conservatives passed (via reconciliation) under the Bush administration. I think, so far, Bush's Medicare drug bill has increased the deficit by something like 400 billion. Or maybe it's 800 billion. Estimates vary.

Between now and 2083, Medicare D's unfunded obligations amount to $7.2 trillion according to the trustees. Numbers like these prompted former Comptroller General David M. Walker to call it "... probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece
of legislation since the 1960s."

My point is that fiscal responsibility looks a lot better in this Democratic bill than it did for the Republican bill, which helps to put the petty political bickering in perspective.

 

[DeeZire]

The best part of Health Care Reform is that we'll all be able to get Something for Nothing, because some generic Rich Dude will be forced to pay for something that We Want but that We Can't Afford because we are all Losers! Yay!!!!!

You got a source for that, Carney?

In case you haven't been paying attention, there is no public option in the healthcare bill. It's all about regulating private insurance. Granted, there are supposed to be subsidies to help the working poor buy coverage, but the operative word is "buy". They're not getting something for nothing, they're purchasing a service from the free market and the government is helping them do so, sort of like the way the government doles out corporate welfare to all those corporate "loser" millionaires, but on a much smaller scale.

 

[Darkniciad]

Part of the argument for the bill is that huge chunks of the people who don't have insurance don't have it because they can't get it because of pre-existing conditions. Those people fall on the down side rather than the up side. Likewise, it's always argued that those without insurance get little more than band-aid care. If they're insured, and end up getting more attention due to it, that's coming out the insurance company again. That's also counting on the free market to respond to lowered costs, if they happen, by passing that on to consumers via competition, which sort of flies in the face of the Democratic platform.

There's got to be more than that, unless there are vastly larger numbers of healthy, young, uninsured people than I've seen anywhere. That's the only two points I've seen, and it just doesn't add up. It takes several people paying premiums to offset one person using services, and we're apparently talking about adding a lot of people using services.

'Fraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on the logic of the government entirely running healthcare from top to bottom, and leave it at that.

One theory holds that with the increased enrollment of more healthy young people, their premiums will offset the costs associated with the pre-existing condition crowd. Plus, if everyone has insurance, the costs for hospitals would go down, since they would be doing less free care for the uninsured. The only realistic way to lower costs is with a single-payer system, but we all know that ain't gonna happen any time soon - it's just too logical for American politics.

 

[ishtat]

As soon as health care passes, the American people will see immediate benefits. The legislation will:

* Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans;
* Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool;
* Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans;
* Lower seniors prescription drug prices by beginning to close the donut hole;
* Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage;
* Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans;
* Require plans to cover an enrollee’s dependent children until age 26;
* Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing;
* Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions;
* Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs.

By enacting these provisions right away, and others over time, we will be able to lower costs for everyone and give all Americans and small businesses more control over their health care choices.

Stella I don't want to get involved in the politics of this debate which have been flogged to death but my observation is that nothing has been done to address the fundamental supply and demand problem in American health services.

The Doctors all 700 000 of them(one for every 380 people) essentially control both supply and demand and partly driven by litigation fear overservice, over test, over prescribe and overrefer. Every health system in the world seems to have the same problem and everywhere costs are out of control. But how can it be controlled - I haven't a clue but seeing that US health costs are approximately double any other developed country something will have to be done to address this.

All these goodies have to be paid for.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) were created to control medical treatment costs but failed because insurance companies tried to screw hospitals, and the hospitals threw them out. Insurance companies caved to the hospital chains and the chains went wild.

A big chunk of what you pay for hospital care is executive compensation. Hospital chains use their hospitals as collateral for loans; the money goes for executive pay and bonuses; and the hospitals pay back the loans with increased prices for treatment.

Obama sez he's gonna squeeze the insurance companies, but they arent the problem; hospital corporations are the problem. The DOC FIX bill already proves Obama isnt serious about containing MD fees. If he tries to screw with the hospital corporations via Medicare they'll toss gramps & granny out the door.

 

[ishtat]

A big chunk of what you pay for hospital care is executive compensation. Hospital chains use their hospitals as collateral for loans; the money goes for executive pay and bonuses; and the hospitals pay back the loans with increased prices for treatment.

Wrong James, and I can speak from experience having been a non executive Board member of a private hospital group. Executive pay is peanuts compared with direct medical costs.

 

[rgraham666]

I've never quite understood the reflexive opposition to public healthcare.

Here in Canada we have single payer public healthcare. Service has always been quick. I've never heard of any one needing emergency care not getting it at once.

We spend only nine percent of our GDP on healthcare and our health as a nation is better than the US.

I really don't understand.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Wrong James, and I can speak from experience having been a non executive Board member of a private hospital group. Executive pay is peanuts compared with direct medical costs.

Sorry, but I'm correct. The chains saddle their hospitals with debt to pay the fat executive bonuses.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB let me explain how it works here.

Back in 1995 my county passed a tax to create FREE medical care for the working poor and students. The county then organized walk-in clinics at all the community centers. All you needed was proof of residency. Dental care was included.

Next the major hospital in the county failed after its bush bunny CEO and his friends ran up a tab for $150 MILLION they didnt have. The money went for pay, benefits, and bonuses for the crew of pals.

So the county made a deal with the hospital: fire the bush bunny, run off all the parasites, take care of our clients, and we'll give you the tax money.

The hospital took the deal, and ran off the CEO, friends & family, plus all the working poor.

We still pay the tax but the poor dont get treated.

 

[smallgirl]

I've never quite understood the reflexive opposition to public healthcare.

Here in Canada we have single payer public healthcare. Service has always been quick. I've never heard of any one needing emergency care not getting it at once.

We spend only nine percent of our GDP on healthcare and our health as a nation is better than the US.

I really don't understand.

ive been told the amount of taxes paid in canada are HUGE? i think everyone here knows ours will go up, at least those of us in the middle class will, and quite simply? im not willing to pay for healthcare for those who sit on the couch all day, watching tv, and dont want to get up and go to work.

 

[Liar]

ive been told the amount of taxes paid in canada are HUGE?

Real question there is, is the average tax paid that goes to a single-payer system larger or smaller per person than the average premiums paid in a private commersial system?

 

[Liar]

The Doctors all 700 000 of them(one for every 380 people) essentially control both supply and demand and partly driven by litigation fear overservice, over test, over prescribe and overrefer. Every health system in the world seems to have the same problem and everywhere costs are out of control. But how can it be controlled - I haven't a clue but seeing that US health costs are approximately double any other developed country something will have to be done to address this.

From what I understand, there are some provisions to deal with some of those probems in the bill, but it's fairly weak sauce. The main focus is on the problems with insurance.

We'll just have to hope somebody picks up the torch and starts looking deeper into the incentive structure for medical reimbursments in the years to come. One part of this that is in the bill now is to insure all (or most) or the poor. This will hopefully drive down the bleeding costs in the overloaded emergency services, which is a huge drain on a hospital's budget.

 

[rgraham666]

ive been told the amount of taxes paid in canada are HUGE? i think everyone here knows ours will go up, at least those of us in the middle class will, and quite simply? im not willing to pay for healthcare for those who sit on the couch all day, watching tv, and dont want to get up and go to work.

Define 'huge'.

And you pay for those 'layabouts' when they go to the emergency room for their healthcare.

 

[Darkniciad]

From what I understand, there are some provisions to deal with some of those probems in the bill, but it's fairly weak sauce. The main focus is on the problems with insurance.

We'll just have to hope somebody picks up the torch and starts looking deeper into the incentive structure for medical reimbursments in the years to come. One part of this that is in the bill now is to insure all (or most) or the poor. This will hopefully drive down the bleeding costs in the overloaded emergency services, which is a huge drain on a hospital's budget.

How is that not simply going to shift the burden to insurance companies, jacking up the rates and pushing more people into the danger zone, resulting in the cost to the government in subsidies growing exponentially?

 

[rgraham666]

Define 'huge'.

And you pay for those 'layabouts' when they go to the emergency room for their healthcare.

AMA supports the health care bill.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB rides in the wagon, he doesnt pull it, so he's in favor of adding more donkeys to the pulling team.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ObamaCare will shed jobs like trees shed leaves in October.

When the kids are buying insurance, they wont buy other stuff, and everyone suffers from the lost sales & sales taxes.

 

[Liar]

How is that not simply going to shift the burden to insurance companies, jacking up the rates and pushing more people into the danger zone, resulting in the cost to the government in subsidies growing exponentially?

The ones being covered, those who otherwise would head to the ER, are the people whove had to choose between health insurance and food on the table. They're generally young or middle aged, families and minimum wage-ish working poor, who have had to rationalize away health insurance because rent was more important.

Those people are medically speaking generally not high risk. Especially not if they get an insurance that allows them to afford checkups and treatment before otherwise benign and easily treatable conditions become critical.

So those people are a plus customer for the insurance companies on average. meaning getting access to them will widen the low risk pool and potentialy lower general rates. So I don't what "danger zone" you are referring to.

True, this costs Government (tax) money in subsidies. This is one of the "cost" things of the bill. But so is the ER burden today, in part compensated for by tax money. And other savings that the bill contains is supposed to even it out. Yannow, swings and roundabouts.

Wil it? That's another question. But that is the idea.