Using NLP
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RedHairedandFriendly
Too much red on Red?
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About to reveal more of my ignorance.
I've never even heard of this, so I can't really answer. Any one care to explain?
I've never even heard of this, so I can't really answer. Any one care to explain?
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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I use NLP all the time since like 1985 or so. The trick is to make yourself so appealing they wanna seduce YOU! Not the other way round.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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Neuro-linguistic Programming. Its a treatment philosophy based on the clinical work of people like Virginia Satir, Milton Erickson, Jay Haley and some other Masters of psychotherapy. Richard Bandler & John Grinder studied these people and distilled their processes into treatment protocols.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
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RedHairedandFriendly
Too much red on Red?
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Thank you. I checked that out and another site too, hoping for a few laymen speech.
I don't believe I've used this in any of my writing; it sounds similar to a trick used in hypnotherapy and I do have one story that may fall into that line, that is if I'm understanding the concept clearly.
If one was writing under this technique would it be considered a "mind-control" genre in regards to Literotica?
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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Its bald manipulation is what it is; discovering all your buttons and pressing the right ones. Your strong feelings will compel you to do my bidding.
RedHairedandFriendly
Too much red on Red?
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Thanks. Some people don't need trained to do that, they are just naturally good at it and abuse the power.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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Most of the time you wanna manipulate with integrity. If I brush my teeth and shower and put on clean boxers before a date the other person appreciates my efforts to influence their regards for me.
People who read and write erotica regularly know the word pairings, images that will send them over the edge. That stuff's too uniquely personal though, it's not something someone writing here can possibly pull off. As in, "I'm going to set this scheme in motion, I know exactly what will earn me that 5.0 vote." That's probably why most people here say, "I write what turns me on."
RedHairedandFriendly
Too much red on Red?
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I never really thought of that being manipulation, but in some case it could be; I'd like to think it is just common courtesy.
I wish I had the power to know exactly what will earn me a 5.0, I don't.
I like your 24 hours story. Something like "More and more I urge his cock to cum to me, to let me finish my breakfast." the second half of the sentence is an erotic trigger for me. Making a sexual act breakfast/lunch/dinner is just a small part of my ideal sex story. But then in one of the next sentences you have a cock ramming against the back of this girl's throat and it negates the sexiness of the earlier bit. If you have a group readership you're sure to have more success, but trying to maximize the triggers for a group to get that perfect score is borderline delusional.
stephen55
Literotica Guru
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I`ll believe in the Creation Science trick before I believe that you can make yourself appealing.
JBJ I really like your earings.
Babe Thank you.
JBJ My grandmother liked that kind of fake jewelry.
Babe Eat shit, fucktard!!
Huckleman2000
It was something I ate.
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Didn't this used to be termed, "Having a charming personality"? I think NLP confuses social conventions, manners and idioms for "triggers". There have always been those who use words and manners in imaginative or nefarious ways to manipulate people - Insurance Salesmen, for example. Telephone solicitors. Politicians. Con Artists.
if you are serious about NLP and want to learn more I recommend Influencing with Integrity by Genie Z. Laborde.
If you elect to read it please make sure you read the Foreward, Editors Notes and Preface.
In a nutshell it discusses NLP techiques where both parties are allowed to achieve their desired outcomes. Manipulation exists when one party achieves their outcome without regard to the needs of the other party. Thus the inclusion of the term Integrity.
For anyone in sales there is some good stuff there.
If you elect to read it please make sure you read the Foreward, Editors Notes and Preface.
In a nutshell it discusses NLP techiques where both parties are allowed to achieve their desired outcomes. Manipulation exists when one party achieves their outcome without regard to the needs of the other party. Thus the inclusion of the term Integrity.
For anyone in sales there is some good stuff there.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
NLP is designed to get around stubborn beliefs and habits. People want relief from themselves. So you gotta manipulate them to change, and you create clever double-binds that compel them to act different. Charm is okay so long as the other person is receptive to it, but if you get a cynical skeptic charm wont work. You gotta set them up.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
INFLUENCING WITH INTEGRITY is okay but nuthin to write home about.
Twenty years ago there was a series of videos of The Masters working with real patients (I have videos of Milton Erickson working with patients), and seeing it is impressive. Carl Whitaker had a ghetto brat with a bad attitude, wouldnt cooperate for love nor money, so Carl tosses a frisbee at the teen. The kid catches it and throws it at Carl. Carl tossed it back, and pretty soon the angry kid is relaxed and cooperating with Carl via the frisbee.
Heres Erickson with a patient:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySOkD0EqEFA&feature=related
Here's Richard Bandler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMipI3zjMOc&feature=related
Here's Virginia Satir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBf62ZkiuuU
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I don't know if this is relevant, but I watched Spielberg's Peter Pan film, 'Hook', in a cinema sometime in the 90s and spent the second half with tears streaming down my face. I wasn't consciously unhappy and I didn't even think the film was particularly good, but I couldn't stop crying.
I'm not a natural crier. The last time I'd cried - before this incident - was as a child, when I was eleven years old. I haven't cried since.
While I was watching 'Hook' I felt as if my 'buttons' had somehow been 'pressed'. The crying felt as if it had been provoked by something that by-passed my conscious mind. I don't know if Spielberg's team deliberately set out to do this - I doubt it, actually, especially since I didn't notice anybody else in the cinema crying. It seems more likely that something in the film accidentally 'chimed' with something in my psyche.
Does this have anything to do with Neuro-Linguisitic Programming? It felt bloody weird, whatever it was.
- polynices
I'm not a natural crier. The last time I'd cried - before this incident - was as a child, when I was eleven years old. I haven't cried since.
While I was watching 'Hook' I felt as if my 'buttons' had somehow been 'pressed'. The crying felt as if it had been provoked by something that by-passed my conscious mind. I don't know if Spielberg's team deliberately set out to do this - I doubt it, actually, especially since I didn't notice anybody else in the cinema crying. It seems more likely that something in the film accidentally 'chimed' with something in my psyche.
Does this have anything to do with Neuro-Linguisitic Programming? It felt bloody weird, whatever it was.
- polynices
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J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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Dear, you can use NLP for all kinds of things. I use it for every sort of personal challenge I know, especially writing issues.
RedHairedandFriendly
Too much red on Red?
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Thanks; the 24 hours series was definitely one of my earlier works, full of a lot of learning experiences in regards to writing. I feel I've becoming better with my later submissions. When I wrote that series, actually any story that I have written, I've never thought to try and trigger a perfect score and probably won't try to achieve that ever because it's not as important to me as it is to some folks.
Would it be nice to have a 5.0 every time? Sure, but it isn't realistic if folks are just giving me a 5.0 because they I'm a "regular" to them. I want a score I earn, not one handed to me because of fans/friends. I prefer comments actually more than a number.
Those books mentioned have nothing to do with using NLP for writing. NLP is used mainly for shitty self-help presentations and therapy. It's about communication, if you can give me any information about NLP used to manipulate a reading audience in fiction I'm all ears. I don't think it can be used in writing, because you have to know your audience, including reading the body language of the person you're communicating with.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
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LA ROCHA
You assert that writers (agents, editors, publishers) have no idea who their audience is, and I'll bet you a Quarter that SR71PLT knows exactly who his audience is for his Gay stories. One of my old professors writes smut for disabled people; I'll bet you another Quarter he knows who his audience is.
Generally speaking, you identify your market, then you identify your market's most successful sellers, and you make your wares better than their's.
The NLP helps make your wares superior to your competition's stuff.
You assert that writers (agents, editors, publishers) have no idea who their audience is, and I'll bet you a Quarter that SR71PLT knows exactly who his audience is for his Gay stories. One of my old professors writes smut for disabled people; I'll bet you another Quarter he knows who his audience is.
Generally speaking, you identify your market, then you identify your market's most successful sellers, and you make your wares better than their's.
The NLP helps make your wares superior to your competition's stuff.
I saw a program on a woman who refused to wear makeup for a year, she even went on television without any sort of makeup and looked pretty ghastly, you could tell she'd be a fantastic looking female with a little dab here and there. She did this to modify her own opinion of herself and change the way she communicated with other people. She wasn't trying to manipulate others into dropping their makeup kits. She felt that if she dropped her makeup she'd find a healthier, more advantageous way of interacting with the people in her world.
If NLP had a place in written porn, it would modify the personal beliefs and real world sexual performances of the readers. I don't think I've ever read a sex story here or anywhere else that made me think differently, or change the way I engage in sexual activity. It's easy emulating a few key lines of a popular sex story, but uncovering the real reason people vote some stories higher than others is herculean. Trying to generate a story based on that information doesn't seem feasible. I've tried, I think most people have. Usually you just end up with, "Well, this is what I would want in a sex story." and it goes over as an okay story, maybe you get your H. Then people email you and ask why you didn't do this or that.
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