Commitment Phobes

[YourCaptor]

What are the inner workings of commitment phobia?

Specifically, we have someone here who is very outgoing, flirtatious and kind, but when it comes to something closer she walls herself off. There is a history of this, having rejected almost all who tried. There has been only one short relationship. It was probably and experiment, random just out of the blue guy who happened to ask her out. Doubt she had any expectations, and she was the one to end it.

I’m trying to figure this one out, I want to understand how to interact with someone like this, understand how to help someone like this.

I think with this particular individual there is a strong fear of making the wrong decision. She often talks about mistakes, and a lack of perfection, wishing she could do it over knowing what she knows now.

Can you guys help me out with this. Let me hear everyones thoughts.

 

[Netzach]

I'm related to one. No one's ever good enough. I think it saves people a rejection or something?

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Oh, I thought this was a roll call....

 

[unregistered]

 

[monique_minx]

I thought you just described me for a second there!

Personally I have the same issues and they're all about putting my trust on the line along with my heart. It's a fear of being disappointed and getting hurt.
My own stem from a bad experience with my first Master and sex partner (one and the same).

Its been two years and it still effects me to a certain extent so my suggestion is simple - don't try to help her. It worked for my Master, before we got anywhere at all he was trying to help me and I didn't want that.

He befriended me and got to know me, learnt a lot about me and gradually I found I could trust him with more and more. I'd get upset if he would react badly and try to reach out to me at first, I would tell him something that hurt me and it would quite obviously upset him but I'd recoil if he tried to show he cared.

That's akin to having someone you can depend on and for me; that was a major no-no. Not to drag this out or anything but try to just be there to listen to her, the outgoing flirty side will probably be a side effect of whatever caused her to be scared of committing...

That's my 2 cents anyway

 

[rida]

I think there are different types of "commitment phobic" persons.

From the way you are talking about this specific person, fear seems to be the reason. And the old saying that "the devil you know is better then the devil you don't" has some truth to it.

Being alone might be lonely at times, but being rejected is scary. And the truth is that being in a committed relationship is even scarier as it is perceived as carrying so much responsibilities and potential for heartbreak and drama.

And then, of course, there are the ones that are just afraid that they will find something better, matching their ideal if only they wait. But in that case, I'd say, they are not ready for a real relationship so it is a good thing.

She talks about perfection, you say. What she means? Where does that concept come from? Life is messy, not perfect. And perhaps that is what scares her.

What can you do for her? Nothing specifically, but you can be her friend and show her in that way that she does not need to be "perfect" to be liked.
As for getting over it, she will have to get over it on her own and she will do it when she is ready.

 

[sb2009]

other than the committment part, you sort of described me...being afraid of "doing it wrong" and thinking of my mistakes and wanting to go back and "do it over."

However, i did have some growth in that area a while ago and it helped me see that all the back-ward looking only keeps me from making the good/fun/right/healthy choices now.

But the person you describe...sounds like fear mabye? Or mabye it's somethign simple like she isn't cut out for one-on-one committment and hasn't realized it yet?

 

[JMohegan]

What are the inner workings of commitment phobia?

Specifically, we have someone here who is very outgoing, flirtation and kind, but when it comes to something closer they wall themselves off. There is a history of this, having rejected almost all. On one short short relationship. Probably and experiment, it was random and really didn’t carry any expectations. It was also ended by this person.

I’m trying to figure this one out, I want to understand how to interact with someone like this, understand how to help someone like this.

I think with this particular individual there is a strong fear of making the wrong decision. She often talks about mistakes, and a lack of perfection, wishing she could do it over knowing what she knows now.

Can you guys help me out with this. Let me hear everyones thoughts.

Is this a female you're trying to date seriously? Is it possible that you're not exactly an unbiased observer?

Maybe she genuinely likes being single. Maybe she gets off on teasing, flirting, experimenting, and the freedom to do what she wants with whomever she chooses. Maybe she throws out excuses to avoid hurting an individual suitor's feelings, but is genuinely not interested in said suitor as a committed mate.

Lack of candor aside, there's nothing wrong with any of that. "In a committed relationship" is not an inherently superior state to "having a great time solo."

 

[YourCaptor]

I thought you just described me for a second there!

Personally I have the same issues and they're all about putting my trust on the line along with my heart. It's a fear of being disappointed and getting hurt.
My own stem from a bad experience with my first Master and sex partner (one and the same).

Its been two years and it still effects me to a certain extent so my suggestion is simple - don't try to help her. It worked for my Master, before we got anywhere at all he was trying to help me and I didn't want that.

He befriended me and got to know me, learnt a lot about me and gradually I found I could trust him with more and more. I'd get upset if he would react badly and try to reach out to me at first, I would tell him something that hurt me and it would quite obviously upset him but I'd recoil if he tried to show he cared.

That's akin to having someone you can depend on and for me; that was a major no-no. Not to drag this out or anything but try to just be there to listen to her, the outgoing flirty side will probably be a side effect of whatever caused her to be scared of committing...

That's my 2 cents anyway

Hmm, so no offering help?

That sucks cause I’ve made it very clear to her that I’d take care of her when she needs it.

She gave me a really nervous smile for that one.

No showing that I care, what about gestures? Buying her things, compliments, old fashion doorman, etc. Is that a good idea? As in can I do superficial stuff, just not anything emotional.

I think there are different types of "commitment phobic" persons.

From the way you are talking about this specific person, fear seems to be the reason. And the old saying that "the devil you know is better then the devil you don't" has some truth to it.

Being alone might be lonely at times, but being rejected is scary. And the truth is that being in a committed relationship is even scarier as it is perceived as carrying so much responsibilities and potential for heartbreak and drama.

And then, of course, there are the ones that are just afraid that they will find something better, matching their ideal if only they wait. But in that case, I'd say, they are not ready for a real relationship so it is a good thing.

She talks about perfection, you say. What she means? Where does that concept come from? Life is messy, not perfect. And perhaps that is what scares her.

What can you do for her? Nothing specifically, but you can be her friend and show her in that way that she does not need to be "perfect" to be liked.
As for getting over it, she will have to get over it on her own and she will do it when she is ready.

It’s possible she’s not where she thought she would be, in life. She talks about how she would do past things different as to get the most desirable outcome.

Is this a female you're trying to date seriously? Is it possible that you're not exactly an unbiased observer?

Maybe she genuinely likes being single. Maybe she gets off on teasing, flirting, experimenting, and the freedom to do what she wants with whomever she chooses. Maybe she throws out excuses to avoid hurting an individual suitor's feelings, but is genuinely not interested in said suitor as a committed mate.

Lack of candor aside, there's nothing wrong with any of that. "In a committed relationship" is not an inherently superior state to "having a great time solo."

These are all things she has directly told me. She also isn't into the kind of lifestyle you are referring too.

 

[YourCaptor]

Just adding some more. She freaks out, kind of gets stiff, when I show some form of affection. She keeps trying to tell me she’s not that good. She’s also been questioning me about why I like her, you know, what do you say to that. I just do.

I think the friends route is probably the best. But I push limits, so I'm trying to figure out what the hard limits are here. Affection? Showing that care?

I've never really interacted with anyone like this.

 

[sb2009]

how old is she? she may very well have baggage that keeps her from accepting good things from people. Doesn't mean you won't be able to win her, but it will take work and you may have to deal with some crap you wouldn't with another type of person.

 

[Netzach]

Just adding some more. She freaks out, kind of gets stiff, when I show some form of affection. She keeps trying to tell me she’s not that good. She’s also been questioning me about why I like her, you know, what do you say to that. I just do.

I think the friends route is probably the best. But I push limits, so I'm trying to figure out what the hard limits are here. Affection? Showing that care?

I've never really interacted with anyone like this.

Sounds like some major backstory. Or she's just not that into you, as the crap says. I'm betting on the former, if she keeps hanging out with you purposefully.

 

[Keroin]

Brutal honesty? I'd run. Fast.

But that's just me. I don't like relationships that start out with drama. Beginnings, IMO, should be fun and playful. There's plenty of time for life's little shit kickings down the road. And if someone doesn't want to be with me, for whatever reason...there's the door.

Like I said though, that's just me. If you want to put in the time to try and figure this girl out, I wish you loads of luck, YC. Back off, be friends, see what happens, reevaluate.

 

[rida]

Just adding some more. She freaks out, kind of gets stiff, when I show some form of affection. She keeps trying to tell me she’s not that good. She’s also been questioning me about why I like her, you know, what do you say to that. I just do.

I think the friends route is probably the best. But I push limits, so I'm trying to figure out what the hard limits are here. Affection? Showing that care?

I've never really interacted with anyone like this.

I used to be like that in my late teen/early twenties.

I'd do my best to win someone over by being fun and flirty and then I'll get drunk (or not, but it helped) and start telling them how I was not good enough, how I was not what they thought I was and they should not care because I was not worthy, and so forth.

Why was I doing that? Looking back with the maturity I've reached now, I can say I was testing them. I wanted to make sure they were not liking only the good side of me, I wanted them to hang around and like my ugly spots as well.

I had gone through a major phase when being myself and not what people wanted me to be got me rejected big time. As a teen, it felt that the rejected part of me was my true self and as such I focused on it and I became a "preemptively freak them out" type of girl. I figured that if I they were going to reject me, I might as well have it done early and on my terms.

Having people stick around and not judge me for my meltdowns helped. And eventually I realized that turning the opposite of who I am or push them away just to test their love/care/friendship is not a good thing.

Even now, when I feel I'm getting emotionally vulnerable I'm still tempted to do it as old fears and habit are hard to shake. I recognize it thou for what it is and I keep it under control.

So there is hope, but it comes with time.

As for the "do-over", tell her that she is young, there is plenty of time to get where she wants to. She just has to stop wanting to change the past as it is indeed impossible.

 

[YourCaptor]

Sounds like some major backstory. Or she's just not that into you, as the crap says. I'm betting on the former, if she keeps hanging out with you purposefully.

No back story, relationship wise. Not that into me, half and half. I know she doesn't feel as strongly about this as I do, but she doesn't want to let it go either, I know that much.

Brutal honesty? I'd run. Fast.

But that's just me. I don't like relationships that start out with drama. Beginnings, IMO, should be fun and playful. There's plenty of time for life's little shit kickings down the road. And if someone doesn't want to be with me, for whatever reason...there's the door.

Like I said though, that's just me. If you want to put in the time to try and figure this girl out, I wish you loads of luck, YC. Back off, be friends, see what happens, reevaluate.

Yes, except love in general is not rational. I put a stop to the drama though. Didn't want to go that way at all.

I used to be like that in my late teen/early twenties.

I'd do my best to win someone over by being fun and flirty and then I'll get drunk (or not, but it helped) and start telling them how I was not good enough, how I was not what they thought I was and they should not care because I was not worthy, and so forth.

Why was I doing that? Looking back with the maturity I've reached now, I can say I was testing them. I wanted to make sure they were not liking only the good side of me, I wanted them to hang around and like my ugly spots as well.

I had gone through a major phase when being myself and not what people wanted me to be got me rejected big time. As a teen, it felt that the rejected part of me was my true self and as such I focused on it and I became a "preemptively freak them out" type of girl. I figured that if I they were going to reject me, I might as well have it done early and on my terms.

Having people stick around and not judge me for my meltdowns helped. And eventually I realized that turning the opposite of who I am or push them away just to test their love/care/friendship is not a good thing.

Even now, when I feel I'm getting emotionally vulnerable I'm still tempted to do it as old fears and habit are hard to shake. I recognize it thou for what it is and I keep it under control.

So there is hope, but it comes with time.

As for the "do-over", tell her that she is young, there is plenty of time to get where she wants to. She just has to stop wanting to change the past as it is indeed impossible.

Yea, she is very intelligent and has a mature vibe, but under that she is so innocent still, and childish. She's only 19, that's a tough age, almost killed me. I like to play though, so, I'm gonna pursue her for a while, see how it goes.




By the way, relationship advise, you can put it in my awesome thread. Here I want to focus more on problems that prevent commitment.

 

[JMohegan]

Here I want to focus more on problems that prevent commitment.

Would you commit to someone you felt "half and half" about? I'd say that's your problem right there.

Look, man, I understand the appeal of a challenge, and I totally get why a young guy would find the intelligent but innocent at 19 combination hot as hell. But she's got the upper hand here. So far, she's the one controlling the process, and that's just not good.

Instead of begging her to give you what you want, pull back to the realm of whatever interaction she's comfortable with. Then build on whatever positives you've got going on, enjoy your encounters but for god's sake don't act desperate about it, and try to leave her wanting more every time.

What forms of "affection" are you offering, that make her go stiff? Whatever it is, knock it off and go for subtle instead.

 

[JMohegan]

But I push limits

So do I, but here's the thing. You have to get her hot & bothered first.

This is a cart/horse thing.

 

[PertPerth]

If she's asking you why you like her, then the issue may be her low selfesteem. I can totally identify with that. I'm still scared (can't think of a better word) of finding Mr Right, only for him to see all my bad points and all the things that I hate about myself (and things which I desperately try to hide from the world).

 

[Keroin]

Yes, except love in general is not rational.

Wrong. Infatuation and the heady rush that accompanies it is not rational.

Love is often more rational than you would like it to be.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm a commitment-phobe, always have been. The fact that I have a boyfriend and two girlfriends right now is...crazy. The prevailing thought is "Push them away before they can push me away." Yes, it causes drama. On the other hand, it weeds out the idiots who can't handle me. The good news is, I have three now who can and will.

 

[monique_minx]

Just adding some more. She freaks out, kind of gets stiff, when I show some form of affection. She keeps trying to tell me she’s not that good. She’s also been questioning me about why I like her, you know, what do you say to that. I just do.

I think the friends route is probably the best. But I push limits, so I'm trying to figure out what the hard limits are here. Affection? Showing that care?

I've never really interacted with anyone like this.

Speaking as a 20 year old female who is exactly as you describe I will say stop being affectionate - it's scaring her.

She's insecure about herself and I would say that someone in her past did a damn good job of making her feel that way. She's scared to grow an emotional attachment to anyone in a relationship capacity (working on what you've said thus far; she sounds a helluva lot like me) because she thinks that anyone will find her as wanting as she finds herself.

The outgoing, flirty thing is a protective bubble which I use consistently to shy away from possibilities of relationships by making myself seem more promiscuous than I actually am.

She probably gets a good feeling out of what you say to her but isn't quite sure whether or not she can believe you - that's a trust issue right there. Does she have any interests? Like music, writing or something she can share with you that is absolutely outside of appearance/sex etc?
That would be a good place to start, if you can break through her trust issues then she will probably be more open to affection from you.

Just be her friend and prove you will be there for her; the rest only comes with time and it honestly sounds like someone did her some damage so she feels pretty worthless; she needs to heal a little and you can't do that for her but you can support her.

Hope that's of some help!

 

[YourCaptor]

Would you commit to someone you felt "half and half" about? I'd say that's your problem right there.

Look, man, I understand the appeal of a challenge, and I totally get why a young guy would find the intelligent but innocent at 19 combination hot as hell. But she's got the upper hand here. So far, she's the one controlling the process, and that's just not good.

Instead of begging her to give you what you want, pull back to the realm of whatever interaction she's comfortable with. Then build on whatever positives you've got going on, enjoy your encounters but for god's sake don't act desperate about it, and try to leave her wanting more every time.

What forms of "affection" are you offering, that make her go stiff? Whatever it is, knock it off and go for subtle instead.

I already made that move. However subtle isn't exactly something that comes to me easily. I think that's something she really likes about me too. So at this point I'm trying to figure out how to be me while being considered of her issues.

Wrong. Infatuation and the heady rush that accompanies it is not rational.

Love is often more rational than you would like it to be.

Hmm... interesting...

Thanks K

I'm a commitment-phobe, always have been. The fact that I have a boyfriend and two girlfriends right now is...crazy. The prevailing thought is "Push them away before they can push me away." Yes, it causes drama. On the other hand, it weeds out the idiots who can't handle me. The good news is, I have three now who can and will.

I don't think shes pushing away, as much as keeping a distance. There is a limit to how close she likes people getting. She didn't full out reject me, she said she has problems getting that close.

Speaking as a 20 year old female who is exactly as you describe I will say stop being affectionate - it's scaring her.

She's insecure about herself and I would say that someone in her past did a damn good job of making her feel that way. She's scared to grow an emotional attachment to anyone in a relationship capacity (working on what you've said thus far; she sounds a helluva lot like me) because she thinks that anyone will find her as wanting as she finds herself.

The outgoing, flirty thing is a protective bubble which I use consistently to shy away from possibilities of relationships by making myself seem more promiscuous than I actually am.

She probably gets a good feeling out of what you say to her but isn't quite sure whether or not she can believe you - that's a trust issue right there. Does she have any interests? Like music, writing or something she can share with you that is absolutely outside of appearance/sex etc?
That would be a good place to start, if you can break through her trust issues then she will probably be more open to affection from you.

Just be her friend and prove you will be there for her; the rest only comes with time and it honestly sounds like someone did her some damage so she feels pretty worthless; she needs to heal a little and you can't do that for her but you can support her.

Hope that's of some help!

Build trust, and keep in check my desires to be close. Hmm, actually that may be doable. I have a lovable jerk thing in my character, maybe if I play that up. Do all the right things for the wrong reasons, and vice versa. I could try that.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Dude... Do yourself a favour, and step back and take a breath. This woman is going to drive you batshit crazy if you keep at it. (been there, done that, won the letterman jacket and Heisman trophy)

Relax and be friends with her, but definitely stop overthinking every little thing.

Also, bro... don't push things... let it grow.

It sounds like you are making some of my usual mistakes.

 

[Homburg]

Dude... Do yourself a favour, and step back and take a breath. This woman is going to drive you batshit crazy if you keep at it. (been there, done that, won the letterman jacket and Heisman trophy)

Relax and be friends with her, but definitely stop overthinking every little thing.

Also, bro... don't push things... let it grow.

It sounds like you are making some of my usual mistakes.

This right here, YC. Back off a bit. Be a friend. Be around. Be present. And be consistent.

She has trust and intimacy issues, so you need to earn her trust. Approach slowly and carefully and don't push in your usual way. If you are just there and consistently so, she may just relax and get used to you being in her world.

Ever been around horses? Sepcifically nervous horses? There are parallels.

 

[YourCaptor]

This right here, YC. Back off a bit. Be a friend. Be around. Be present. And be consistent.

She has trust and intimacy issues, so you need to earn her trust. Approach slowly and carefully and don't push in your usual way. If you are just there and consistently so, she may just relax and get used to you being in her world.

Ever been around horses? Sepcifically nervous horses? There are parallels.

I think I already got all that, the problem is the commitment aspect. It's such a subjective concept, I don't really know how to deal with it.

Hell it could be that being consistent would scare her. Then on the other hand she did tells me she needs structure.

So far what I got is that she freaks out at hints towards a long term relationship. I think...