Oh that worked

[SeaCat]

Just watching the local news as I surfed here when a report came on about an aborted armed robbery down town this morning. The report was complete with video footage from the security system.

In the video you can clearly see the Store Owner and a Cashier being herded towards the back of the store by a hooded person brandishing a handgun. Also in the video you can see the store owner seem to stumble then turn with a handgun of his own. There is no visible hesitation on the store owners part as he turns and fires twice at close range. (You can see the flashes.)

The would be robber took two rounds to the chest but survived.

Naturaly the robbers friends and family are saying this is all a mistake or is racially motivated. (Kind of hard to understand the last as both the robber and shop owner are black. Then again maybe the store owner is an Uncle Tom.)

Cat

 

[3113]

You seem to be very obsessed with stories about people shooting robbers who then get accused (falsely) of shooting out of racial motivations. I assume this is a personal hobby horse, as you never seem to get tired of it. But by repeatedly posting such stories, you are giving fodder to the assumption that accusations of racism by such minorities (criminal or otherwise) are always bogus.

I don't think that's true, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't either, but one would never know it from the stories that you post.

I mean, outside of one story of a middle east girl, you almost never post stories of legitimate claims of racism (like a guy being shot who was not engaged in criminal activities, empty handed, legally doing something, yet got shot thanks to the color of his skin). Nor have I seen any stories posted by you of whites falsely accusing minorities of reverse racism in order to, say, gain something they haven't earned. Which would indicate that ANYONE (not just minorities) could issue a false claim. Nor do you post any stories of criminals using any other excuse--which would teach us that criminals will say anything to escape punishment and responsibility, and racism claims are just one of many.

So the common thread of all these stories ends up being that certain minorities will always make claims of racism and they're always bogus and should be dismissed with proper moral outrage. I don't know if you want that to be the message, but by posting so many of these stories, all with the same ending, you make it appear like we can count on certain minorities to not only be criminals, but liars when it comes to accusations of racism.

 

[SeaCat]

You seem to be very obsessed with stories about people shooting robbers who then get accused (falsely) of shooting out of racial motivations. I assume this is a personal hobby horse, as you never seem to get tired of it. But by repeatedly posting such stories, you are giving fodder to the assumption that accusations of racism by such minorities (criminal or otherwise) are always bogus.

I don't think that's true, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't either, but one would never know it from the stories that you post.

I mean, outside of one story of a middle east girl, you almost never post stories of legitimate claims of racism (like a guy being shot who was not engaged in criminal activities, empty handed, legally doing something, yet got shot thanks to the color of his skin). Nor have I seen any stories posted by you of whites falsely accusing minorities of reverse racism in order to, say, gain something they haven't earned. Which would indicate that ANYONE (not just minorities) could issue a false claim. Nor do you post any stories of criminals using any other excuse--which would teach us that criminals will say anything to escape punishment and responsibility, and racism claims are just one of many.

So the common thread of all these stories ends up being that certain minorities will always make claims of racism and they're always bogus and should be dismissed with proper moral outrage. I don't know if you want that to be the message, but by posting so many of these stories, all with the same ending, you make it appear like we can count on certain minorities to not only be criminals, but liars when it comes to accusations of racism.

I report what is reported in the local news.

There are some stories I don't report from the local news for personal reasons. ie. The three young white girls who got splanged off the Bridge by a train. Too damned sad.

The three Sheriffs deputies arrested for buying and selling drugs. (Some here would have a fun time with that one pointing out how all cops are corrupt.)

The two guys who blew themselves up trying to light a Propane Heater.

The kid who blew himself up by using a lighter to ignite the gunpowder his father had used to try and make a Dud Grenade into a real one. (The kid will survive.)

Maybe you would prefer I post the news stories complete with pictures of the nastier news stories? Like the two guys who robbed, held hostage and sexually assaulted the four teenagers just south of us? Then again because of the demographices where I live I would again be pegged as a racist. (That's been done here before.)

Cat

 

[Stella_Omega]

Like the two guys who robbed, held hostage and sexually assaulted the four teenagers just south of us?

If the guys had claimed racism when they got caught, I bet you would have posted it.

Cat, you have said in the past that hospital clients scream "racism" about you, when you are, in fact, there to help them. Given that these are crackheads, diabetics who have let themselves go to the point of hallucination, alcoholics suffering from the DT's etc-- could it be that you are mostly meeting the scum? Sure, they make bizarre claims, they are bizarre people and in a bizarre place.

If someone has said shit about you, talk about it directly. You do not need to comb the paper for the items that prove impoverished, desperate, uneducated black people will grasp at any concept they can think of, in order to not feel like the complete dregs of the earth.

 

[JackLuis]

But then there are people who find themselves in the position that they will say anything to avoid responsibility.

So how is it racist if both participants were black, or Islam or...?

Stupid criminals are so satisfying to hear get their comeuppance.

Sound like the store owner needs a bigger caliber though.

 

[SeaCat]

If the guys had claimed racism when they got caught, I bet you would have posted it.

Cat, you have said in the past that hospital clients scream "racism" about you, when you are, in fact, there to help them. Given that these are crackheads, diabetics who have let themselves go to the point of hallucination, alcoholics suffering from the DT's etc-- could it be that you are mostly meeting the scum? Sure, they make bizarre claims, they are bizarre people and in a bizarre place.

If someone has said shit about you, talk about it directly. You do not need to comb the paper for the items that prove impoverished, desperate, uneducated black people will grasp at any concept they can think of, in order to not feel like the complete dregs of the earth.

Could it possibly be that I am pointing something out that too many people don't wish to see? (And no it isn't about me being called a racist. Those who truly know me know better and those who don't know me, well I honestly could care less.)

Could it be that by my pointing out these not infrequent situations I am in fact attempting to point something else out? Something now so entrenched in our society that people don't like to even admit the possibility of it's existance?

That being said think about these questions:

What happens when a man claims to have been raped by a woman? He gets laughed at doesn't he? That just doesn't happen.
The same thing if a man claimes he has been physicaly abused by a woman.

What happens when a man claims sexism in the workplace? He gets laughed at doesn't he? He's told he is imagining it, (We all know women wouldn't do that.) or he's told if he doesn't like it to just get out of there.

In the same vein and the nastiest one is what happens when a white man claims racism against him? He gets laughed at. (We all know that the Black Man, The Hispanic and the Oriental won't do that. They are too nice and polite, besdies they have dealt with it so they know how it feels.) Hell the Whitey gets called a racist just for trying to claim that. (A good reference case was the Firefighters Union against the Boston Fire Department which ended only a year or so ago.)

Could it be that I'm trying to force people to wake up and realise that while Racism is alive and well here in the United States it isn't all White Man against everyone else. As a matter of fact from what I see down here the racism between Hispanics, Orientals and Blacks is more virulent than that between Whites and Blacks even though the White versus Black is that which is most often reported.

AS for racism and me, which you brought up mind, I generaly shrug it off. When patients bring it up I usually shrug it off. I'm dealing with people at their worst after all. The same for those who bring up sex or gender issues.

But then again maybe I am a bit touchy about this subject but for a reason you may not be able to comprehend. You see I am a first generation American. In other words I'm just that, an American. (I have been ashamed because of the actions of other Americans but I have never not acknowledged that I was an American even when I could have.) I'm not a German-American, I'm not an Irish-American, I'm not a Chinese-American nor am I that ever so proud minority African-American. My attitude is you are one or the other. (The only exception to this are the Native Americans who actually were here first and are native to this land.)

Cat

 

[Stella_Omega]

But then there are people who find themselves in the position that they will say anything to avoid responsibility.

So how is it racist if both participants were black, or Islam or...?

Stupid criminals are so satisfying to hear get their comeuppance.

Sound like the store owner needs a bigger caliber though.

yes, there are, but Cat, according to 3113, is particularly interested in the ones that use one particular excuse above all others. Especially when it is easily proven false.

According to 3113, he rarely seems to be interested in any other excuse. Nor does he talk about provably true racism charges.

It seems to be important to Cat that racism charges be untrue.

 

[oggbashan]

In my capacity as an employer, I had to interview many people every year giving them a review of their performance.

Except for the very exceptional employees, it could be an awkward and painful experience because we had to talk about relative weaknesses, mistakes and of course strengths and successes. The interviews almost always focused on the weaknesses and mistakes because there could be improvements, and because criticism hurts.

The most productive interviews were discussions about how to improve, how to do better, how to progress through the company.

The worst were those where the person being interviewed claimed that the weaknesses were non-existent or not their fault because they were being picked on because of their sex, colour, gender-preference, religion, age etc.

The "You're only saying that because I'm different" card was produced so many times that it became boring. What was really irritating is that sometimes it was true. The false claims tended to obscure the genuine ones where the person's supervisor or colleagues were unjustifiably hostile. But so many times it was produced just to deflect criticism to a personal characteristic. "I can't improve. I can't stop making mistakes. It's because I'm (insert blank characteristic) that everyone's picking on me." As long as that belief is held, the employee wasn't going to improve.

The same happens in law enforcement. "You're picking on me because I'm carrying 100 car-keys. Can't I have a harmless hobby?"

When a street robbery is committed by three white men then police won't stop and search the non-white men in the vicinity. If the robbery was committed by three black men then black men will be suspect.

Unfortunately the "I'm a victim" excuse is used too often. Being stopped and questioned by the Police can be a nuisance, and an irritation but fairly painless (in the UK) if you are polite and cooperative. Objecting violently and abusively is counterproductive because the Police are likely to take your reaction as possible proof of guilt.

Locally, the "known individuals" are likely to be stopped and searched far more often than anyone else. Why not? Each one of those people have more criminal convictions than the total of 1000 other members of the community. If they are being "picked on" it is because they have demonstrated total disregard for other people's persons or property.

The Police are also guilty of the reverse - disproportionately choosing which to pick people to stop and search because of physical characteristics. If an unknown person is behaving suspiciously they are more likely to be challenged if they are black, aged under 25 and wearing a hooded jacket than if they are white, over 30 and wearing smart casual wear. Some of our biggest villains locally are white, over 30 and wear suits.

Og

 

[Stella_Omega]

And of all the possible excuses, in the USA, "racism" is the most likely to be true. Middle-aged black men in suits get stopped when the cops are looking for young black man in sweats.

So it is also the most often used bullshit excuse as well. And Cat lives in the Bullshit State, with all due respect. It's a mecca for people with minimal resources, who come there thinking the living is going to be easy, and you end up with marginal folk who prey on other marginal folk. The mystery to me is why anyone living in Florida would be surprised when bullshit happens.

 

[Handley_Page]

That being said think about these questions:

What happens when a man claims to have been raped by a woman?
He gets laughed at doesn't he? That just doesn't happen.
The same thing if a man claims he has been physically abused by a woman.


Cat

Yes, Cat,
He gets laughed at. He also get laughed at as he reports to a Police Station that he's just been sodomised (or sexually assaulted, raped or whatever else they can all it).
And as for the newspapers. . . . . . . .

Many years ago, when we had Capital Punishment, I remember a man being hanged for killing his wife. Evidence was given that he had taken acute verbal and physical abuse for many years. A decade or two later and an "abused" woman who killed her husband got away with a couple of years. How things change .

 

[Stella_Omega]

Women who get raped get laughed at, dragged through the mud, threatened and see their attackers go free. The women who are vindicated are still so rare that they make the news.

Could it be that by my pointing out these not infrequent situations I am in fact attempting to point something else out? Something now so entrenched in our society that people don't like to even admit the possibility of it's existance?

That's exactly what I figure you are trying to do.

You are talking about the horrible things that begin to happen as the playing field evens up. Yes, any group that has some power, will probably abuse that power. That's true, even of those groups that were once powerless. When you have to share the privileges of life, it feels as if the privilege has been taken away from you-- as indeed they have been, to some extent.

Women and blacks in this country were REALLY under the heel of the White Male elite. If you remember a time when blacks did not holler "racism" when women did not sexually objectify men in the workplace-- well, so do I. I remember when those things were impossible. I remember when most women could not possibly put sexual pressure-- or gender pressure, which I bet is what you are referencing-- on a male subordinate, because men were so rarely subordinate to women in the workplace. There were so few women bosses.

I remember when blacks who talked about racism-- were killed for it.

These things are still in living memory. There is, most definitely, an element of revenge in many instances. That's rough on those of us who feel that we are blameless-- but the rest of us were blameless in the bad old days, and they got targeted-- which was rough on them.

Could it be that I'm trying to force people to wake up and realise that while Racism is alive and well here in the United States it isn't all White Man against everyone else. As a matter of fact from what I see down here the racism between Hispanics, Orientals and Blacks is more virulent than that between Whites and Blacks even though the White versus Black is that which is most often reported.

Really, there is no need to "force" the issue. Its called "internalised racism" and it's very well documented.