Feeding the Blue Beast

[unregistered]

 

[hogjack]

Bush had two wars to deal with and kept spending on other programs fairly low with slow growth other than the wars.

That's worked out real well.

Please. If you want to argue fiscal responsibility do not bring up the George W. Bush (Karl Rove, Dick Cheney) crew. They consistently under-budgeted for the wars and then tacked it on later. And the costs are still being incurred. Plus, wait until 60,000 men and women are added for a lifetime into the VA system. The Bush spending will last for decades long after Karl Rove has turned in his final military draft deferment.

Real fiscal conservatives are ashamed of the Bush legacy.

 

[hogjack]

The new administration has come in and in their first initiative, borrowed as much money as we've used in total for the war for several years and said "Lets give it to unions because they were such a big help to me in getting elected".

The Obama Administration is putting gasoline on the fire. The red ink will flow through 2020 and by that time the US will have DOUBLED the national debt to almost $20 trillion. The worst part is the ratio of debt to the GDP will be almost 80 fucking percent by then...assuming that projections are correct and that nothing changes (i.e. Americans pull their heads out of their large, rotund asses).

Republicans are pussies who would fare no better than the Democrats in taking on the real beasts of federal spending:

Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and defense spending (and the massive interest payments)

The two major parties dare not tell the American people the Truth lest either of those tired old parties lose power. Americans don't want to feel the pain of real change and tend to live in the past when the US was the big dog in the neighborhood. Things have changed significantly economically but America has not recognized it - or admitted it - on a national level (although states, counties and cities see it every day).

China holds $1 trillion of US debt. Even they are getting worried when Moody's fucking warned the US about its credit rating.

No, the Republicans and Democrats parties leadership like power far too much to make real changes. Republicans will yip-and-yap and when they take over they'll do the same crap they've done before.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

This is one of the most prescient articles I've read. It's by Walter Russell Mead at The American Interest (an organization that I'm not familiar with). He didn't mention the trial lawyers organization which is a charter member of the "Blue Beast." What do you think of this?

American workers in the blue sectors will have to accept lower wages? Like the private sector?

People in the private sector are doing more, being paid less, and being laid off for being so productive, because higher productivity means higher worker redundancy. And they aren't getting new, better paying jobs: just like the article said, they're having to get by with less.

Do you even realize what this means? THIS is why our economy is so far in the dumps. The subprime crash would NOT have led to such a fraggin' market panic if we had kept all those high wages. People who earn less spend less - especially now that credit is so hard to get and use.

Does anyone around here have the brains to tell me what happens to a nation's economy when millions of Americans have to learn to live with earning less? Here's a clue. It's happening around you right now. You're soaking in it!

Now you want to take all the Government workers and bring them down to that level, too? Now you're calling for throwing millions more workers into the cycle of buying less discretionary goods and services so they can make ends meet.

You think that means nothing? Well check this out. 9500 businesses in the Sacramento area have closed in the last year. Ninety five HUNDRED. That's one out of SIX. This is happening all over America. Why do you think they're going out of business? I'll tell you why. It's because workers are having to make do with lower wages, and they stopped spending as a result. That is what caused the lion's share of our recession, and that is what is killing America's businesses from sea to shining sea.


I dare any fucktard, anyone, anywhere, to tell me I'm wrong. Go ahead. Say it.





Oh. And how about a nationwide poll? "Would you, as an American, prefer the blue model of lifetime job security and higher wages, or the uber capitalist model of lower wages, harder work and job insecurity?" I will bet any fool hard money that almost no one will vote for the latter.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Oh yeah and I made sure to tell Mr. Walter Mead the same damned thing on his blog.

http://blogs.the-american-interest....g-the-blue-beast/comment-page-2/#comment-2064


You may find him singing a new tune when I'm done with him...

 

[The_Trouvere]

It's time to put the Blue Beast down. We can start with inflated public employee pension plans. In my state a public employee might put $67,000 into his pension plan over the course of a career but be eligible for and receive 1.5 million in benefits over the course of his retirement. Shit's gotta end.

But of course, you deserve your pension, don't you vetteman?

 

[The_Trouvere]

Why, as the economy becomes more productive, are most Americans expected to get along with less, as the rich keep getting richer?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Why, as the economy becomes more productive, are most Americans expected to get along with less, as the rich keep getting richer?

Damn! You killed his whole argument in one sentence.

I'm gonna copy that. Shamelessly.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Damn! You killed his whole argument in one sentence.

I'm gonna copy that. Shamelessly.

Some right wing nut case will retort that I am in favor of class war and that I hate America.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Some right wing nut case will retort that I am in favor of class war and that I hate America.

Screw them. The class war is already on. The rich are sucking the working class dry. Hell, I hobnob with these bastards and I see them doing it all the time. Simple shit. Like having enough cash to buy a yacht outright and then laying people off citing "a recession" and making the remaining employees work all that much harder. And then there are others out there that go even further - they'll do all of that and lie to unemployment, claiming they fired the workers with cause...

 

[The_Trouvere]

Screw them. The class war is already on. The rich are sucking the working class dry. Hell, I hobnob with these bastards and I see them doing it all the time. Simple shit. Like having enough cash to buy a yacht outright and then laying people off citing "a recession" and making the remaining employees work all that much harder. And then there are others out there that go even further - they'll do all of that and lie to unemployment, claiming they fired the workers with cause...

What gets me is that lower income white Republicans spend their days listening to Rush Limbaugh. When they lose their jobs and have to take jobs paying even less they blame blacks, immigrants, and foreign trade. When they blame foreign trade they are really blaming foreigners. In other words, they direct their hostility horizontally, not upward. What they don't get is that the people who fired them get raises.

When I tell one of them that a white plutocracy is benefiting itself at his expense with the help of the Republican Party, he either does not understand what I am talking about, or he gets angry at me. They shout "USA! USA!" and clutch their guns as their standard of living goes down.

 

[Karen Kraft]

Of course, the first and largest priority of the new administration was to take our healthcare system and try to swallow it into the blue beast. Was this a wise choice? We hope that its too much for the beast to swallow.

This is a great context for understanding the current political balance.

There is no current political balance.

There are but two ships -- one with holes in her hull and the other with its sails yet furled.

 

[phrodeau]

Screw them. The class war is already on. The rich are sucking the working class dry. Hell, I hobnob with these bastards and I see them doing it all the time. Simple shit. Like having enough cash to buy a yacht outright and then laying people off citing "a recession" and making the remaining employees work all that much harder. And then there are others out there that go even further - they'll do all of that and lie to unemployment, claiming they fired the workers with cause...

Oh, so you hobnob with them instead of telling them off to their faces, kicking their asses in front of their kids, or casually shooting their pets.

 

[RightField]

I think everyone outside of the blue beast is getting poorer. We keep having to sacrifice more to feed it.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

What gets me is that lower income white Republicans spend their days listening to Rush Limbaugh. When they lose their jobs and have to take jobs paying even less they blame blacks, immigrants, and foreign trade. When they blame foreign trade they are really blaming foreigners. In other words, they direct their hostility horizontally, not upward. What they don't get is that the people who fired them get raises.

When I tell one of them that a white plutocracy is benefiting itself at his expense with the help of the Republican Party, he either does not understand what I am talking about, or he gets angry at me. They shout "USA! USA!" and clutch their guns as their standard of living goes down.

But yet when you talk about raising tariffs against China, suddenly they're for foreign trade...

 

[RightField]

How has the blue beast screwed us today?

 

[RightField]

Oh, so you hobnob with them instead of telling them off to their faces, kicking their asses in front of their kids, or casually shooting their pets.

Actually, he puts on his "Obama the magnificent" uniform and flies around the neighborhood. Did you see the Jibjab "Obama" skit?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I think everyone outside of the blue beast is getting poorer. We keep having to sacrifice more to feed it.

When you have a hard time putting food on the table, I'll tell ya what. You'll wish you were riding the blue beast instead of envying it.

Government jobs are hella popular right now. People prefer higher wages and more job stability than the bullshit they're dealing with in the private market.

 

[RightField]

When you have a hard time putting food on the table, I'll tell ya what. You'll wish you were riding the blue beast instead of envying it.

Government jobs are hella popular right now. People prefer higher wages and more job stability than the bullshit they're dealing with in the private market.

Yes, but you see, the blue beast exists soley for the benefit of the people, not the other way around. We're all in this together and we shouldn't be creating some sort of "priviledged" government class of people.

You're right though, if everyone could have that sort of job, they'd grab it. The problem is that those jobs exist based on taxes taken from the private sector and if this administration kills the private sector as it seems determined to do, even those government jobs aren't going to be very stable because there's won't be enough money left to sustain them. You can't have one without the other and they seem to be trying to kill the private sector.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Yes, but you see, the blue beast exists soley for the benefit of the people, not the other way around. We're all in this together and we shouldn't be creating some sort of "priviledged" government class of people.

Perhaps we should have more unions in the private sector representing the interests of workers. I mean, you don't seem to have a problem with corporate officers and managers forming alliances to represent their own interests - so why is it wrong for workers to do the same? It cuts both ways.

Hell, you don't even have a problem with rewarding incompetent CEOs million dollar payouts after they've gotten done designing gas guzzling monstrosities no one wants to buy... oops. I just killed the thread. Oh noes.

You're right though, if everyone could have that sort of job, they'd grab it. The problem is that those jobs exist based on taxes taken from the private sector and if this administration kills the private sector as it seems determined to do, even those government jobs aren't going to be very stable because there's won't be enough money left to sustain them. You can't have one without the other and they seem to be trying to kill the private sector.

Perhaps that's because the private sector would be trying to kill us all with their criminal negligence and shortcuts if it weren't for the Government keeping a reign on them?

Oh wait, maybe you plan on disagreeing with me... in that case why don't you try working in enterprise zones in China, where they have no regulations?

 

[RightField]

The artificial escalation of labor rates pushes the cost of labor above its market value and causes there to be less and less employment....great if you have a job, but devistating for the many who are currently unemployed and soon to be unemployed. It's the same policy that the Roosevelt administration followed and that led to more than 10 years of depression that was only rescued by bombs falling on Europe (and destroying the rest of the world's productive capability).

Your path, the democrat path, leads to disaster.

You can't "legislate" wealth forever. At some point people have to work to create the wealth that you so cavalierly want to redistribute. Your approach disincentivizes work and wealth creation and without wealth creation, everyone will be equally poor.

I heard a guy on the news the other day say that he wanted to put up a building in LA. He had to coordinate and do paperwork for 27 different government agencies. Half the cost of the building was living up to the government red tape. Is that what you mean by protecting the people? At some point it just becomes an artifice designed soley to feeding the blue beast.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

The artificial escalation of labor rates pushes the cost of labor above its market value and causes there to be less and less employment....great if you have a job, but devistating for the many who are currently unemployed and soon to be unemployed. It's the same policy that the Roosevelt administration followed and that led to more than 10 years of depression that was only rescued by bombs falling on Europe (and destroying the rest of the world's productive capability).

Wow. I wonder when you will apply this same reasoning to the ballooning salaries of CEOs?

And Roosevelt's policies didn't lead to 10 years of Depression. It was the lack of trust in the banking industry caused by the prior years of de-regulation. Roosevelt's Public Works programs saved our asses. It also gave people like you electricity which you now use to spout this drivel.

Your path, the democrat path, leads to disaster.

You can't "legislate" wealth forever. At some point people have to work to create the wealth that you so cavalierly want to redistribute. Your approach disincentivizes work and wealth creation and without wealth creation, everyone will be equally poor.

Your approach takes the work out of the country and sends it to low wage nations like China.

I heard a guy on the news the other day say that he wanted to put up a building in LA. He had to coordinate and do paperwork for 27 different government agencies. Half the cost of the building was living up to the government red tape. Is that what you mean by protecting the people? At some point it just becomes an artifice designed soley to feeding the blue beast.

And in China, where they don't regulate these things, shit collapses and kills people. Now there's nothing wrong with calling for the process to be streamlined, but when you guys get involved it always comes down to cutting corners.

Democrats are no more about red tape than Republicans are about putting profits over safety.

 

[RightField]

Democrats are no more about red tape than Republicans are about putting profits over safety.

Democrats are about halting all productive enterprise. They won't let us drill, they won't let us use natural gas, they won't let us build more refineries, they bemoan the use of foreign oil, but at the same time take away all alternatives and suggest that maybe we should ride bicycles to work.

 

[hogjack]

I heard a guy on the news the other day say that he wanted to put up a building in LA. He had to coordinate and do paperwork for 27 different government agencies. Half the cost of the building was living up to the government red tape.

That "guy" is former actor Wayne Rogers. Obviously California is fucked up.

Wait a minute. Isn't there a Republican governor there? That can't be right.

 

[hogjack]

they won't let us build more refineries

No new refineries have been built in the US since 1976.

I didn't realize the Democrats have been in power at all levels of government since 1976 thwarting petroleum companies at every turn. We need a second or even third party to offer American an alternative in the voting booth.