A Genuine Question about the S/M Life

[lesbiaphrodite]

Well, well, well. Looks like things got rather lively here when I left to go finish proofing my book. I need to start taking notes here.

Thanks all. Fascinating stuff. The arguments and debates raise great questions.

Grateful.

 

[xssve]

And, that's probably as good an introduction into the BDSM "community" as any - there isn't any big mystical connection other than being mutually kinky, and there is no shortage of passionate debate and deeply held opinion.

If you want I could try to list a few of the eternal debates - "real" vs. "fake" is one of the ones that crops up regularly.

For the answer to that, see rule One: there are no rules.

Generally, most of the community subscribes to SSC, RACK, etc., as a general rule, but there are those who regularly protest that because it seems too "weak", or whatever.

So in some respects, the real vs. fake debate is: are you really insane, or just acting?

i.e., it's really a spurious debate, since we're all basically insane, it's only guys like JBJ who pretend there is some sort of sacred model of averageness and "normality", itself a form of insanity, and more OCD than most kink - so it really becomes more a practical matter of boundaries, and everybody draws the line at a slightly different place.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It is fake without the element of real harm. And you folks fool yourselves trusting others to respect the rules. The DSM4 thinks S/M is just lovely, and totally ignores why people do it...to tease death and social ruin.

 

[xssve]

Why is it that "harm" is what make it real? that seems to me to be a fairly arbitrary line, a product of your imagination.

Now define "harm".

The whole issue really does revolve around consent, not harm - that which can take you to the heights of ecstasy with a consensual partner will get you Ten years with a nonconsensual one.

Boundaries, that's all it is - and people living the BDSM lifestyle in my experience, have far fewer boundary issues than it's detractors.

If you want to define "real" as non-consensual, then yeah, the real sociopaths are the people who will lock you up with murderers and rapists for getting your freak on with another consenting adult.

 

[TxRad]

LA...I realize this thread was seeking more knowledgeable input, but did you have any idea how deep this box would be once you opened it?!

For me, some very insightful stuff here. I am pretty lost in what differenciates SM from DS. First impressions, I always assumed SM rooted from unhealthy psychological factors; and resulted in selfishness and lack of any consideration for any other, the deliverer or recipient in physical situation. I tended to separate DS for the most part.

I'm wondering if what contributes to physical arousal has any relevance. I mean, if one is turned on, in (nonsexual) circumstances of intense pressure, aggravation, sense of threat, or prevailance; would that dictate what type of gratification would satisfy, within scopes of using it as a coping mechanism?

And what if those needs were different depending the accompanying gender? Maybe it's as simple as being pissed off at one gender or the other.

I think I'm going to have to reread those whole thread. Though confusing, I'm sure I missed some answers here.

Ok, let's see if I can clarify the S&M and D/s parts even though they are blurred lines in todays communities.

S&M is the giving/receiving of pain for the sake of the pain. The sadist isn't the murder type JBJ keeps throwing up but a person who likes to give pain because it is a turn on for them or because it pleases the masochist. The Masochist loves the pain for the release of endorphins and the cleansing effect on their mind. To them pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin in most cases.

In a healthy S&M relationship caring and consideration on the part of the sadist is foremost. The idea is to give exactly what the masochist wants and maybe an inch more. This is a fine line and you have to be able to read the receiver very well.

Most people have the idea that the sadist just loses control and beats/cuts/harms the masochist. This is the farthest thing from the truth. Limits are set and adhered to. Anything above and beyond that is just abuse and tears a relationship apart.

D/s on the other hand is role playing mind games for most, although quite a number of couples live it as a life style. A lot of people consider it a Master/slave relationship and for some it is but not for the majority. The dominate person, male or female, has a tough job and has to get into the head of the submissive.

This takes many forms. As many forms as there are couples involved in this type relationship. What a Dom would do to one sub might be totally different from what another sub might want. There is also exploration involved as to what kinks turns who on and what their limits are.

A D/s relationship is far more complex than most realize.

I'm no poet but maybe this might shed some light. Control

 

[TxRad]

It is fake without the element of real harm. And you folks fool yourselves trusting others to respect the rules. The DSM4 thinks S/M is just lovely, and totally ignores why people do it...to tease death and social ruin.

You are a black and white person in a shades of gray world. A want to be psychiatrist with no real understanding of real people. Your case studies are not the real people in the world. They are the misfits and crazies. They are weeded out of BDSM communities in one hell of a hurry.

As for fake without the element of real harm, that shows how very little you know or understand about BDSM. You keep trying to play mind games but you really don't and can't understand what real mind games are until you meet a real Dom. He or she would turn you inside out.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You are a black and white person in a shades of gray world. A want to be psychiatrist with no real understanding of real people. Your case studies are not the real people in the world. They are the misfits and crazies. They are weeded out of BDSM communities in one hell of a hurry.

As for fake without the element of real harm, that shows how very little you know or understand about BDSM. You keep trying to play mind games but you really don't and can't understand what real mind games are until you meet a real Dom. He or she would turn you inside out.

You wish!

You bring to mind a guy I grew up with since we were 8 years old and lived next door to each other. We even lived in the same town after we married, our kids & spouses were pals, too. And it all crashed and burned about 1994.

His wife came to my hospital suicidal. I arranged inpatient care for her and made it clear I didnt wanna know why she was so depressed. Well she told me anyway, and it was all about the kink at home. I never saw her or my old friend again; because I knew!

 

[xssve]

You wish!

You bring to mind a guy I grew up with since we were 8 years old and lived next door to each other. We even lived in the same town after we married, our kids & spouses were pals, too. And it all crashed and burned about 1994.

His wife came to my hospital suicidal. I arranged inpatient care for her and made it clear I didnt wanna know why she was so depressed. Well she told me anyway, and it was all about the kink at home. I never saw her or my old friend again; because I knew!

What you don't seem to get is that this is a vanilla story, it's all based on Judeo-Christian values, where saying "I do" is blanket consent for anything that follows.

Take Christopher E. Miner, he's kinky sure, but this is not BDSM - at the point he threatened to post photographs if she didn't comply, consent is technically withdrawn - the charges got dismissed because the state of Virginia is of the opinion that once a man gets started, he has a right to finish.

That's a very Judeo-Christian notion, based in Blackstone's chattel definition of marriage and women - in the BDSM community, this would be called non-consensual rape - Glenn Marcus is in prison for essentially the same thing, and he doesn't get a lot of sympathy, there is a relatively high value placed on self control, if you don't have it, you're not considered a dominant, you're just an asshole.

By most modern standards, the test of consent is whether or not it can be withdrawn, it can only really be proved in the negative.

 

[PoppingTom]

And you folks fool yourselves trusting others to respect the rules.

Maybe they fool theirselves, but they got fun and sexual pleasure with that.

The DSM4 thinks S/M is just lovely, and totally ignores why people do it...to tease death and social ruin.

Well, maybe some people do it that way - but why?

His wife came to my hospital suicidal. I arranged inpatient care for her and made it clear I didnt wanna know why she was so depressed. Well she told me anyway, and it was all about the kink at home. I never saw her or my old friend again; because I knew!

So you think, S/M people are near suicide ?

 

[xssve]

Thing is, even Blackstone expresses some dull gleaning that consent is important:

But, where the offence is directly against the person of the wife, this rule has been usually dispensed with; and therefore, by statute 3 Hen. VII, c. 2, in case a woman be forcibly taken away, and married, she may be a witness against such her husband, in order to convict him of felony. For in this case she can with no propriety be reckoned his wife; because a main ingredient, her consent, was wanting to the contract: and also there is another maxim of law, that no man shall take advantage of his own wrong; which the ravisher here would do, if, by forcibly marrying a woman, he could prevent her from being a witness, who is perhaps the only witness to that very fact.

Blackstone Commentaries: Women and the Law

Although again, in this case, it's is only the right to consent to be married, as which point any individual rights or prior agreements she may have had with him are abrogated.

By marriage, the husband and wife are one person in law: that is, the very being or legal existence of the woman is suspended during the marriage, or at least is incorporated and consolidated into that of the husband; under whose wing, protection, and cover, she performs every thing; and is therefore called in our law-French a feme-covert, foemina viro co-operta; is said to be covert-baron, or under the protection and influence of her husband, her baron, or lord; and her condition during her marriage is called her coverture.

This isn't BDSM, it's "traditional" conservative, Judeo-Christian law.

 

[LaRocha]

I think most of what JamesBeehiveJohnson is saying on this thread has value to the discussion of what the S/M means in any community.

If the point is servicing the masochist/submissive up to and not past their predetermined parameters, it's really a relationship centered on the pleasure of one person. If the contract between a Dom and Sub is based on the parameters of the Sub, then it's really a contract for the Sub's pleasure.

How would anyone in the community recognize a sadist, someone who will break consent the first chance they get? Any BDSM community anyone on this site can point me to does not accept Sadists. Your communities are most likely formed for servicing female/submissive/masochists or male/submissive/masochists. The masochist gets to feel the pleasure they seek, the Dom is just the great pretend sadist. They call you Master and "serve" you only so far as they want to and get off on it. What does a Dom actually get back in return? The Dom obviously isn't a sadist ie someone who takes pleasure where someone else ceases to take pleasure.

 

[Freefall_mc]

NOW I'm interested! lol
Pardon me while I spend time perusing thread's info, for educational purposes only.

 

[TxRad]

You wish!

You bring to mind a guy I grew up with since we were 8 years old and lived next door to each other. We even lived in the same town after we married, our kids & spouses were pals, too. And it all crashed and burned about 1994.

His wife came to my hospital suicidal. I arranged inpatient care for her and made it clear I didnt wanna know why she was so depressed. Well she told me anyway, and it was all about the kink at home. I never saw her or my old friend again; because I knew!

So, what was this big bad kink and how does it apply to this discussion?

Abuse has no place in BDSM when it is not consensual. In fact, it has no place in a vanilla relationship period, to my way of thinking.

 

[TxRad]

I think most of what JamesBeehiveJohnson is saying on this thread has value to the discussion of what the S/M means in any community.

If the point is servicing the masochist/submissive up to and not past their predetermined parameters, it's really a relationship centered on the pleasure of one person. If the contract between a Dom and Sub is based on the parameters of the Sub, then it's really a contract for the Sub's pleasure.

How would anyone in the community recognize a sadist, someone who will break consent the first chance they get? Any BDSM community anyone on this site can point me to does not accept Sadists. Your communities are most likely formed for servicing female/submissive/masochists or male/submissive/masochists. The masochist gets to feel the pleasure they seek, the Dom is just the great pretend sadist. They call you Master and "serve" you only so far as they want to and get off on it. What does a Dom actually get back in return? The Dom obviously isn't a sadist ie someone who takes pleasure where someone else ceases to take pleasure.

JBJ as usual is taking things to the extreme to stir things up. He has no point or interest in the discussion per say, he is just stirring the pot. That is what he does.

You missed the part where limits are tested I see. Also you keep focusing on the physical when the mental is actually the point in the relationships. S&M and D/s are two things that shouldn't have been placed together. It causes more confusion than it clears up.

A Dom is not a sadist by your definition and JBJ's. As for what a Dom gets out of it, if I have to explain that then you will never be a Dom or understand the interaction between two people in a D/s relationship. The key word is trust but you don't get that either.

 

[LaRocha]

JBJ as usual is taking things to the extreme to stir things up. He has no point or interest in the discussion per say, he is just stirring the pot. That is what he does.

You missed the part where limits are tested I see. Also you keep focusing on the physical when the mental is actually the point in the relationships. S&M and D/s are two things that shouldn't have been placed together. It causes more confusion than it clears up.

A Dom is not a sadist by your definition and JBJ's. As for what a Dom gets out of it, if I have to explain that then you will never be a Dom or understand the interaction between two people in a D/s relationship. The key word is trust but you don't get that either.

I know what a dominant and submissive relationship is, every human being who has ever been in any type of relationship, friendship, anyone who's ever worked a job should know what a dominant and submissive relationship is. Taking it to extremes is supposedly what the BDSM community does, the natural domination and submission of any plain vanilla relationship should resemble the most dominant of HolyDoms.

James is hitting at valuable points. Why can't you just explain what you think a dom/sub relationship is as opposed to what an S/m relationship is, instead of just saying, "Yes, I know what it is."? The point of this thread was educating people who have questions. If you don't know how to answer a question don't answer it.

 

[TxRad]

I know what a dominant and submissive relationship is, every human being who has ever been in any type of relationship, friendship, anyone who's ever worked a job should know what a dominant and submissive relationship is. Taking it to extremes is supposedly what the BDSM community does, the natural domination and submission of any plain vanilla relationship should resemble the most dominant of HolyDoms.

James is hitting at valuable points. Why can't you just explain what you think a dom/sub relationship is as opposed to what an S/m relationship is, instead of just saying, "Yes, I know what it is."? The point of this thread was educating people who have questions. If you don't know how to answer a question don't answer it.

The bold above is where you are wrong. BDSM is as extreme as you want it to be as anything is in in any relationship. For example, a spanking can just warm the ass with a cupped hand or it can bloody it with a cane. It's personal choice. The Dom has the option to do both, it's the trust the sub has that he will follow the rules that makes the difference. He or she gives consent to which point they want to go to. It's the Dom's job to take them there but how is as important as what.

D/s and S&M are so intertwined that there are no clear cut lines. Each relationship is it's own definition just like every vanilla relationship. Finding your place in a relationship is much harder because of the trust and respect issues.

Another thing you don't understand is that the Dom is not taking anything. The sub is giving because they want to please the Dom, not the other way around.

I know the answers and I've been giving them. You keep trying to make something hard and fast out of human relations. People are all wired differently. People who are not wired for certain things just don't get them and no amount of words will explain it.

 

[xssve]

I think most of what JamesBeehiveJohnson is saying on this thread has value to the discussion of what the S/M means in any community.

If the point is servicing the masochist/submissive up to and not past their predetermined parameters, it's really a relationship centered on the pleasure of one person. If the contract between a Dom and Sub is based on the parameters of the Sub, then it's really a contract for the Sub's pleasure.

How would anyone in the community recognize a sadist, someone who will break consent the first chance they get? Any BDSM community anyone on this site can point me to does not accept Sadists. Your communities are most likely formed for servicing female/submissive/masochists or male/submissive/masochists. The masochist gets to feel the pleasure they seek, the Dom is just the great pretend sadist. They call you Master and "serve" you only so far as they want to and get off on it. What does a Dom actually get back in return? The Dom obviously isn't a sadist ie someone who takes pleasure where someone else ceases to take pleasure.

It's a little more complicated than that - the pain is very real. It's common mistake to confuse intensity and "acting" - i.e., it can't be as intense because it's "roleplay", ala, JBJ and his notion that if nobody is getting fucked over, it's not "real".

The point about the masochist as client was to make the point that both sides are equally important, it really isn't like submission in the vanilla social sense, where you have to kiss the right ass to get ahead - if anything, in the vanilla world, it's pretty much all an act, nobody is honest, everything is calculated - saying how you really feel is pretty much the fast track to social suicide - it's pretty much why the distinction is made between kink and "vanilla".

An actor pretends to be someone they aren't, for the sake of an audience, in this, any audience is strictly incidental.

i.e., it's not a drama, or a pyrotechnic action movie, it's a psychological thriller, you cant just walk in cold at any point and have the faintest idea what's going on.

Just because everybody may hang out and socialize afterward's doesn't mean it isn't intense - in the vanilla world, there always has to be "winners" and "losers" - this isn't a competition, and that may be the hardest thing for people to understand, ideally, it's about a win/win situation, if it isn't, you're doing it wrong.

In fact, while bad experiences with people who have boundary issues, molestation, rape, etc., are not a prerequisite as conventional wisdom sometimes tries to imply, a lot of people who have had these experiences feel safer among people who understand and are experienced at sensing boundaries - it's less of an act than an art, it just looks like and act from outside - inside, there is a very delicate interaction between personalities going on, in fact, it's not much different than any other form of asceticism - is there anything kinkier than joining a Nunnery or becoming a Priest?

We just call that orgasm denial, and there's a reason every major religion in the world makes some connection between suffering and enlightenment, between duty and "goodness".

It's mainly that unrelieved suffering basically just makes you peevish.

It's really about self knowledge, not cheap thrills - believe me, you have to jump through more hoops to pull a submissive than any vanilla, it's not a just pulling names out of a hat - these people are very particular.

Though of course, this is America, where eventually, everything is reduced to cheap thrills, mass appeal, the lowest common denominator.

Either way, in the final analysis, it's just you wrestling with your own demons: it's just a question of whether you've got enough balls to look in the mirror or if you have to evade it, project it onto some external receptacle of which you are a helpless victim: liberals, or atheists, Blacks, or Jews, women, or men, or whatever.

It's always big business, and there's always somebody interested in encouraging you for their own purposes - nobody has to feel coerced to do this, in fact if you don't understand it on a very basic, intuitive level, if you're afraid of what your mother, or your friends might think, you shouldn't do it, nobody needs the drama.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I know what a dominant and submissive relationship is, every human being who has ever been in any type of relationship, friendship, anyone who's ever worked a job should know what a dominant and submissive relationship is. Taking it to extremes is supposedly what the BDSM community does, the natural domination and submission of any plain vanilla relationship should resemble the most dominant of HolyDoms.

Oh, good, then you have got it all and don't need to be part of this conversation any longer.

James is hitting at valuable points. Why can't you just explain what you think a dom/sub relationship is as opposed to what an S/m relationship is, instead of just saying, "Yes, I know what it is."? The point of this thread was educating people who have questions. If you don't know how to answer a question don't answer it.

You are making a pretty big demand on someone's time. What are you going to do for him in return?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Forty years ago a perfesser named Zimbardo did an experiment (it really wasnt an experiment cuz he had no controls) with role-playing. His book is titled THE LUCIFER EFFECT, and his point is ROLES INFLUENCE HOW WE ACT. If you play the part of a prison guard you become a sadist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

I think his premise is total bullshit but all the Usual Suspects take it on faith, which creates a conflict: HOW CAN ROLE PLAYING BE BOTH HARMLESS AND DANGEROUS?

TEX doesnt want you to consider any of this cuz maybe he likes to butcher people occasionally; I dont know. But it happens.

I think its better to know the risks and make informed rolls of the dice.

 

[xssve]

And if you play the part of a conservative chicken little moron, you become that too.

I understand, the whole thing just isn't real enough for you, you guys have to break a few eggs to feel manly - no playacting here!

 

[LaRocha]

Oh, good, then you have got it all and don't need to be part of this conversation any longer. You are making a pretty big demand on someone's time. What are you going to do for him in return?

StellaOmega and TXrad don't actually answer questions, Xssve does. By forcing yourself to answer a question about your community or culture you learn more about your community and your culture, it's really anthropo100 level stuff. You should thank me for asking difficult questions like, "If there's a difference between s/m and dom/sub, could you please explain it?"

If you explain what the difference looks like to you, then that's better than trying to come up with some general answer, or not giving any type of answer because it's too difficult. StellaOmega and TXrad have possibly been around so long that they feel like they know everything there is to know and can't possibly learn another single thing from anyone else.

The two of you have the same issue, you believe I can't possibly know anything about you, while you believe you know so much about me that my questions are of no value to the conversation. What's it like being old and irrelevant? What could the two of you possibly know about anything in contemporary culture past what's on the Salon.com homepage when you open up your browser?

 

[3113]

nalities going on, in fact, it's not much different than any other form of asceticism - is there anything kinkier than joining a Nunnery or becoming a Priest? ...We just call that orgasm denial, and there's a reason every major religion in the world makes some connection between suffering and enlightenment, between duty and "goodness"

Good point. I was pretty much thinking the same thing. S/M is actually easier because we can show the chemistry of what each side gets out of it. Especially the masochist where pain does create endorphins and adrenaline, and other chemicals that give us highs.

But when it comes to D/s, people have a harder time seeing it. What does the Dom get out of it? What does the sub get out of it? Well what does a nun get out of a nunnery? What does a career soldier get out of the military? I know both and in many ways, they get the same thing Dom/sub relationships get--and it's something that we all want: a need to feel that there is order and control in our life and world, and self-empowerment. Also a feeling of being both important, yet part of something greater. Consider. If there is a nunnery anywhere in the world, my nun friend can go there and be at home. They'll give her a bed, they'll have the same schedule, the same rituals. They'll instantly see her as their sister. Also, the rules for her life are set by others, and she, presumably, likes that. The career soldier is similar. He has military bases where he can go for a bed. A reliable schedule, and acceptance as a brother soldier. He knows who to salute and obey, and who he can, in turn, command. And the limits of both. Both get a feeling of being part of something greater, a feeling of purpose and empowerment.

Now neither of these may be the life for you. But you can see what people get out of them. Including the religious ecstasy of serving god and/or that pride and stirring of serving ones country. Now switch that over to a much smaller scale. The sub gets a very similar things serving a Dom. This Dom is everything to them. He/she gives their life order, consistency, purpose. They always know their place with the Dom, the limits of the relationship, who decides what. And when a sub does what the Dom wants, endures pain or obeys a command, that can make them feel as courageous, powerful, fulfilled as a soldier who completed a difficult mission. Who served his country. Or a nun who suffered for her faith.

What about the Dom side? Believe it or not, they get the same thing out of it. Control, empowerment, order. It's the other side of the coin, but it's the same coin. It's a symbiotic relationship that gives each the same in a different way.

And here's the other thing to understand. The majority of us are all Dom/sub in some aspect or other of our lives. Does it make you feel powerful to drive the car because you're in control of where it's going and how it's going to get there--or do you feel powerful when someone is driving you and you get to enjoy the ride? Sometimes we like to be the decision makers, and sometimes those following the decision maker, doing what he/she says, trusting that they know best and will get us where we're going. If this doesn't mystify you, why should D/s mystify you?

 

[Stella_Omega]

WARNING on xxsve's link; these are images of extremely disfigured people, mostly very young children, suffering from radiation poisoning.

And he is right they are an excellent illustration of jbj's standards of "reality."

 

[LaRocha]

It's a little more complicated than that - the pain is very real. It's common mistake to confuse intensity and "acting" - i.e., it can't be as intense because it's "roleplay", ala, JBJ and his notion that if nobody is getting fucked over, it's not "real".

The point about the masochist as client was to make the point that both sides are equally important, it really isn't like submission in the vanilla social sense, where you have to kiss the right ass to get ahead - if anything, in the vanilla world, it's pretty much all an act, nobody is honest, everything is calculated - saying how you really feel is pretty much the fast track to social suicide - it's pretty much why the distinction is made between kink and "vanilla".

An actor pretends to be someone they aren't, for the sake of an audience, in this, any audience is strictly incidental.

i.e., it's not a drama, or a pyrotechnic action movie, it's a psychological thriller, you cant just walk in cold at any point and have the faintest idea what's going on.

Just because everybody may hang out and socialize afterward's doesn't mean it isn't intense - in the vanilla world, there always has to be "winners" and "losers" - this isn't a competition, and that may be the hardest thing for people to understand, ideally, it's about a win/win situation, if it isn't, you're doing it wrong.

In fact, while bad experiences with people who have boundary issues, molestation, rape, etc., are not a prerequisite as conventional wisdom sometimes tries to imply, a lot of people who have had these experiences feel safer among people who understand and are experienced at sensing boundaries - it's less of an act than an art, it just looks like and act from outside - inside, there is a very delicate interaction between personalities going on, in fact, it's not much different than any other form of asceticism - is there anything kinkier than joining a Nunnery or becoming a Priest?

We just call that orgasm denial, and there's a reason every major religion in the world makes some connection between suffering and enlightenment, between duty and "goodness".

It's mainly that unrelieved suffering basically just makes you peevish.

It's really about self knowledge, not cheap thrills - believe me, you have to jump through more hoops to pull a submissive than any vanilla, it's not a just pulling names out of a hat - these people are very particular.

Though of course, this is America, where eventually, everything is reduced to cheap thrills, mass appeal, the lowest common denominator.

Either way, in the final analysis, it's just you wrestling with your own demons: it's just a question of whether you've got enough balls to look in the mirror or if you have to evade it, project it onto some external receptacle of which you are a helpless victim: liberals, or atheists, Blacks, or Jews, women, or men, or whatever.

It's always big business, and there's always somebody interested in encouraging you for their own purposes - nobody has to feel coerced to do this, in fact if you don't understand it on a very basic, intuitive level, if you're afraid of what your mother, or your friends might think, you shouldn't do it, nobody needs the drama.

I'm interested in the masochistic contract with whoever performs the acts on the masochist. I'm also interested in the dom/sub contract. The masochist sets the parameters, there's trust, the sub sets the parameters, there's trust. I don't see what the dom or the one servicing the masochist gets from the contract. It looks like the submissive and masochist test their boundaries, experience the ascetic thrill of knowledge of thyself via pain, the sub gets to free themselves from frustration or whatever. What does the other actor get from the relationship? In your opinion, if you've ever been part of either kind of contract, what do you get?

 

[Stella_Omega]

simplest version;

The submissive is there to service the Dominant-- not the other way around. The dominant might get domestic caretaking, such as chauffeur and housekeeping services, and personal services such as massages and blowjobs on demand. The submissive gets pleasure and satisfaction from performing these roles and making their Dom happy.