Islamic justice?

[JackLuis]

Caught this and though Stella might have a comment.

JBJ, here;s one for you to spear.

"Rapist spared, victim lashed"
Sheikh Md Shahidul Islam, B'baria

 

[Handley_Page]

Caught this and though Stella might have a comment.

JBJ, here;s one for you to spear.

"Rapist spared, victim lashed"
Sheikh Md Shahidul Islam, B'baria

It is going to take a few more generations to escape from this medieval mind-set.

" Fearing the shame, the girl did not disclose the incident.
Had the girl complained real soon, it might have been different.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The just,gentle and peaceful religion of Islam...

 

[Liar]

The just,gentle and peaceful religion of Islam...

Read the article. Read the comments. Written by muslims.

Islam is not the main factor. Tribalism is.

I'm constantly baffled by some people's ability to disregard that.

 

[jacks4u]

Read the article. Read the comments. Written by muslims.

Islam is not the main factor. Tribalism is.

I'm constantly baffled by some people's ability to disregard that.

Islam, Tribalism, whatever! The point is still that these folks are so backwards as to punish the victim instead of the perp. And sadder still, they didn't even bother to investigate further than 'You're knocked up before you were ever married, therefore you must have committed a crime, we'll beat you and punish your family as well'

But sadly, things might not have turned out much different, even if she cried rape at the time of that crime. ("How could you let that man rape you?")... pure speculation there, but I wouldn't put it past a backward people

 

[al_Ussa]

What is interesting about this is that so many westerners (most of whom are NOT Muslim and know jack shit about Islam to begin with) are eager to jump on this as an example of how "evil we are" without realizing that no everyone who CLAIMS to be a Muslim actually IS following Islam and that we are talking about a very impoverished third world country here.

Dr. Ahmad Yusuf Sulaiman of al-Azhar University said this:

"If a woman is raped, she should press charges against the one who raped her. If it is proved that she was raped, then the court must apply discretionary punishment or ta`zir on the rapist. Such discretionary punishment may reach the death penalty, according to some schools of thought. This is based wholly on the fact that the rape is confirmed through medical tests and court procedures, without the confession of the rapist himself.

In cases where the rapist confesses the crime, then the penalty for zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) is to be applied to him. If he is not married, then he is to be whipped 100 lashes. If he is married, then he is to be stoned to death.

As for the rape victim, no punishment is to be inflicted on her. She is to be treated with dignity and honor, and all forms of help should be given to her to gain her rights."

Also worth noting contrary to the claim of some Christian apologists

"If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.

A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary."

Incidentally I also think it worth mentioning that Sheikh Mohamed Sayed Tantawy (also of al-Azhar) decreed that it IS acceptable for victims of rape to terminate their pregnancy at any time. Something that is far more progressive than many so-called "enlightened" western countries.

So why is it that whenever someone is raped in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you are so quick to attack all of us yet when a white trash American abuses his wife or some ghetto rat rapes a woman you don't attack them? These people are obviously scum and even if they call themselves Muslim they are not to be counted amongst the Mu'mim. In fact one thing that everyone seems to forget (or conveniently ignore) is that the victims themselves are GOOD Muslimah women who are being preyed upon by godless charlatans.

Hans Reiser

Tsutomu Miyazaki

And some info on rape in the United States

Not all criminals are Muslims. Something you people seem to forget.

 

[Liar]

Islam, Tribalism, whatever!

*facepalm*

Other than that, I have no objections.

The point is still that these folks are so backwards as to punish the victim instead of the perp. And sadder still, they didn't even bother to investigate further than 'You're knocked up before you were ever married, therefore you must have committed a crime, we'll beat you and punish your family as well'

But sadly, things might not have turned out much different, even if she cried rape at the time of that crime. ("How could you let that man rape you?")... pure speculation there, but I wouldn't put it past a backward people

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm sure Muslims are civilized where sanitation is practiced, and barbarians elsewhere. But 'elsewhere' covers a lot of Islamic territory. Every society has its Crackers and Niggers and Spics and Wogs and Gooks. Most societies manage and control their knuckle walkers, but not Islam.

 

[Lisa Summers]

Without commenting on ANY religion, culture, gender, blah blah blah (my attempt to defuse the quick-leapers-to-conclusions around here), circumstances which result in a female victim being punished because of the actions of another person (often male!) are outrageous and a crime against humanity.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I will say it again until the Usual Suspects get it.

Back in the 1920s Franz Boas advocated for the equality of all cultures and societies, and acolytes like Margaret Mead infected academia with his virus. In fact, German Nazis were not Pennsylvania Amish or Quakers. Colin Turnbull, anthropologist, confessed that the IK! tribe of Africa are the only people he ever detested...they abandon their children at 3 and often use small children as wild animal bait, most of their female children survive as pedophile prostitutes.

So Franz and Peggy got it wrong. Some societies and cultures are so toxic they deserve condemnation. Islam cannot control its knuckle walkers.

 

[Guest]

What is interesting about this is that so many westerners (most of whom are NOT Muslim and know jack shit about Islam to begin with) are eager to jump on this as an example of how "evil we are" without realizing that no everyone who CLAIMS to be a Muslim actually IS following Islam and that we are talking about a very impoverished third world country here.

Dr. Ahmad Yusuf Sulaiman of al-Azhar University said this:

"If a woman is raped, she should press charges against the one who raped her. If it is proved that she was raped, then the court must apply discretionary punishment or ta`zir on the rapist. Such discretionary punishment may reach the death penalty, according to some schools of thought. This is based wholly on the fact that the rape is confirmed through medical tests and court procedures, without the confession of the rapist himself.

In cases where the rapist confesses the crime, then the penalty for zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) is to be applied to him. If he is not married, then he is to be whipped 100 lashes. If he is married, then he is to be stoned to death.

As for the rape victim, no punishment is to be inflicted on her. She is to be treated with dignity and honor, and all forms of help should be given to her to gain her rights."

Also worth noting contrary to the claim of some Christian apologists

"If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.

A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary."

Incidentally I also think it worth mentioning that Sheikh Mohamed Sayed Tantawy (also of al-Azhar) decreed that it IS acceptable for victims of rape to terminate their pregnancy at any time. Something that is far more progressive than many so-called "enlightened" western countries.

So why is it that whenever someone is raped in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia you are so quick to attack all of us yet when a white trash American abuses his wife or some ghetto rat rapes a woman you don't attack them? These people are obviously scum and even if they call themselves Muslim they are not to be counted amongst the Mu'mim. In fact one thing that everyone seems to forget (or conveniently ignore) is that the victims themselves are GOOD Muslimah women who are being preyed upon by godless charlatans.

Hans Reiser

Tsutomu Miyazaki

And some info on rape in the United States

Not all criminals are Muslims. Something you people seem to forget.

Thank you for posting this.

 

[rgraham666]

Seconded. My thanks for filling me in on Islamic jurisprudence.

I was walking to a friend yesterday. She knew a woman who was divorcing her husband. The woman already had a restraining order against him. It was well proven the man was an abusive, violent jerk.

The judge refused to grant the divorce telling her instead to 'go home and be a good wife.' The woman didn't.

Her husband hunted the woman down at work, poured gasoline on her and set her on fire.

Evil exists everywhere.

 

[rgraham666]

Read the article. Read the comments. Written by muslims.

Islam is not the main factor. Tribalism is.

I'm constantly baffled by some people's ability to disregard that.

A tribalism that exists on both sides of this conflict.

 

[sadangel]

Thank you al_Ussa for posting your comments. Some of us want to learn more about the Islamic and Muslim ways and cultures. Some of us don't lump all in as one. Some of us know that there are extremest and jerks in all walks of society and one does not a whole culture make deplorable. To be honest, I will sooner go after the American who beats his wife then the Muslim who does whatever. Because I don't know enough about the Islamic world or the Muslims to make an educated response to things.

As to the original post. I think it is very sad that the woman was lashed and the perp got nothing. I don't understand it. That's all I can or will say on it.

 

[3113]

The just,gentle and peaceful religion of Islam...

Yeah, and a Christian company here in the U.S. is putting Jesus quotes on rifles sold to the military. That's a Christian company making rifles for war and profiting hugely from it (Ah, "the gentle, peaceful and non-exploitive religion of Christianity...").

If you're not an atheist who rejects all religions equally, then you've just called the kettle black.

 

[3113]

Caught this and though Stella might have a comment.

I'm curious. What comment do you expect her to have? And what if the only comment she has is that this article proves how evil men are and how much better the world will be when women can do without them?

If someone said that...what would you say in defense of men given this example of your gender?

 

[JackLuis]

I'm curious. What comment do you expect her to have? And what if the only comment she has is that this article proves how evil men are and how much better the world will be when women can do without them?

If someone said that...what would you say in defense of men given this example of your gender?

I had thought that this would 'fire her up'. Yet, I believe this was not the 'Gentle side of Islam' but as was said, is tribalisim or some such.

The attitude of the "Village leaders" is very much like the actions of Lord Hutton, who, rather than investigating a crime, sweeps it under the rug. The village council in this instant tried to blame the victim, rather than the perpetrator.

As for how I would defend the 'men' in this, I would not defend them. They are not acting as men, but as cowardly fools. Were I the police I'd have each of the village council stretched over the the wheel and given 101 lashes for miscarriage of justice.

Just because I'm a man doesn't mean that I would defend them.

 

[stephen55]

Gimme That Old Time Religion...

Samuel Clemens (aka: Mark Twain) had a lot to say about religion and most of it was sarcastic and derogatory.

From The Innocents Abroad,
Alas! those good old days are gone, when a murderer could wipe the stain from his name and soothe his troubles to sleep by simply getting out his blocks and mortar and building an addition to a church.

The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink.Their natural instincts do not permit them to be moral. They say the Sultan has eight hundred wives. This almost amounts to bigamy.

From The New Wildcat Religions
We don't cut up when mad men are bred from the old legitimate regular stock religions, but we can't allow wildcat religions to indulge in such disastrous experiments.

From Mark Twain, a Biography,
So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye shall be indifferent to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed by many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that rule to its code.

From The Lowest Animal,
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven... The higher animals have no religion. And we are told they will be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.

And finally, a personal favorite for which I don't have the source.

[He was] a solemn, unsmiling,sanctimonious old iceberg who looked like he was waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity.

 

[3113]

As for how I would defend the 'men' in this, I would not defend them. They are not acting as men, but as cowardly fools.

Very good. Now substitute men with Muslims and we have what would be my point (pretty much what al_Ussa said) "They are not acting as Muslims, but as cowardly fools."

Saying this is "Islamic" justice is pretty much the same as saying this is male justice. It paints everyone of that religion with one brush dipped in a very small pot of paint. Not really fair or factually accurate for that matter--and it derails discussion on our likely uniform disgust with anyone doing such a thing by blaming the religion rather than the individuals (pretty much like blaming a gender or nationality or race rather than the individuals). We suddenly get people like Zeb commenting on Islam rather than on what happened.

 

[JackLuis]

Very good. Now substitute men with Muslims and we have what would be my point (pretty much what al_Ussa said) "They are not acting as Muslims, but as cowardly fools."

Saying this is "Islamic" justice is pretty much the same as saying this is male justice. It paints everyone of that religion with one brush dipped in a very small pot of paint. Not really fair or factually accurate for that matter--and it derails discussion on our likely uniform disgust with anyone doing such a thing by blaming the religion rather than the individuals (pretty much like blaming a gender or nationality or race rather than the individuals). We suddenly get people like Zeb commenting on Islam rather than on what happened.

3113, I put a question mark in the title.

al-Ussa captured the opening I left and framed an answer that I thought was very relevant.

Rob came up with another angle.

Lisa gave her opinion.

JBJ tried to make a point, but I guess I missed the full brunt of his message.

But you are challenging me? On what basis?

I put these questions up because they are relevant, in my opinion, to the "Burning Questions Of The DAY."

The source of the article was from India and the tone of it provides the "Westerner" with a small piece of what that culture is like, from the crime to the reaction of the police.

(I love your AV's BTW)

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Take a look at the military justice thread. It happens everywhere.

Good info on Islamic law.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Caught this and though Stella might have a comment.

JBJ, here;s one for you to spear.

"Rapist spared, victim lashed"
Sheikh Md Shahidul Islam, B'baria

As 3113 pointed out; why the fuck would you wait on my comment?

What is your comment?

What are you going to do about it, Mr Man?

PS: I am not here to entertain you. If you try to "fire me up" again I'll put you on ignore.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most Muslims would murder you for what you do here and in the privacy of your home. You folks are naive.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah, and a Christian company here in the U.S. is putting Jesus quotes on rifles sold to the military. That's a Christian company making rifles for war and profiting hugely from it (Ah, "the gentle, peaceful and non-exploitive religion of Christianity...").

If you're not an atheist who rejects all religions equally, then you've just called the kettle black.

Atheist, no not really...I just don't believe in organized religion, it is the biggest scam on earth, then comes global warming, I mean climate change.

 

[Lisa Summers]

Yeah, and a Christian company here in the U.S. is putting Jesus quotes on rifles sold to the military. That's a Christian company making rifles for war and profiting hugely from it (Ah, "the gentle, peaceful and non-exploitive religion of Christianity...").

If you're not an atheist who rejects all religions equally, then you've just called the kettle black.

Are they on rifles, or on scopes for rifles?