Question

[celticsunspiral]

OK, so I am about to show my total lack of social etiquette and knowledge.

But I would appreciate some opinions, It may seem trivial to some. First, please understand that I have not dated or been out in the world for a LONG time, actually about 20 years, since I was 16, and I haven't really looked at guys for all that time.

I have been going to local munches for the past 3 months and I have meet some really awesome people, Dom's and subs, etc. Made some great friendships, but I am not one to ask for help. Yes, I know that is a failing of mine but it can be so hard, and I WAY over think things. There are a couple of Dom's who are interested but I am not really feeling it for them. I have said in my profile that I want to be friends before anything else and they aren't pushing except in the fact that I feel like they are following me around. I kind of just want to go out and play and have fun. I don't think I am ready to settle down yet. Honestly, I want to try different things, I have only done very limited things and truly played only once (this past weekend and WOW). So here are my questions.

1) By continuing to talk with them am I leading them on? or should I, even though they haven't said anything, tell them that I am not interested in anything other than being friends? I can handle this so much easier online than in r/l.
2) Am I being to picky? Do you play with people you arn't attracted to either mentally or physically? Yes I know that is a real personal question, sorry.
3) What is a good way for me to get someone not to keep touching in a nice way?
4) Just any advice on navigating the live munch world would be good.

Everyone is really nice, I know the person in charge and if I can't deal with this myself then I know he will take care of it, but I would really like to figure this out on my own.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses,
caile

 

[the captians wench]

I've never been to a munch, but I been out in the dating world, so I can only voice my experience from that point.

Having said that, I also worked (sorta) in a place that was very BDSM friendly and I had my fair share of experiments there.

In both cases I'm very upfront with these facts:
1) I'm a huge flirt, and an attention whore, and just because I flirt does not mean that I want to go any further
2) I seperate S&M play from sex, and even sex (or play) from relationships. Getting one does not mean you'll get the other. I let people spank me who I wouldn't get involved with sexually, or romatically, or both. It's just how I'm wired.
3) I have the ability to have sex with friends with out me turning all clingy on them and wanting more. Infact, in many cases, I knew that other person was not good for me beyond friendship, so it made it easier.

More recently I've alowed myself to flirt, grope, and be groped by females as well. I'm not particularly attracted to women, just the attention that girl on girl action brings. Again, I'm upfront with this fact, and it's usually recieved well.

I'm also fully upfront with the fact that I'm kind of shallow when it comes to choosing romantic partners. If I'm not feeling it, you're not going to be feeling me at the end of the night. I don't force myself to play/have sex with/ or involve myself in any way with any one that I'm not attracted to. I've only been involved with one person who didn't attract me at first sight, and well that was just some very bad juju working against me there (total disaster, fucked my head up for a long while, still some nightmares, long bad story).

Basically it comes down to this. I'm honest about what I want, both with myself and with a potential. If all I'm looking for is a quicky, I'm honest about it and don't pass my info later. If I want friendship, I'm upfront with that too, as well as if there's any posibility of some clang clang at the end of the night. And when I want more, they know it on no uncertain terms.

Of course my dating experience lasted all of 2.5 years before Jounar and I gave up and decided this thing we have is bigger than the internet could hold (and that we could no longer hold back any jealousy at the other getting some side nookie).

I don't know if that helps at all, but there it is.

 

[celticsunspiral]

Thank you. Yes that does help. I am also a big flirt, actually I was at one time. Sometimes I am now. And maybe a bit of an attention whore also. I would consider myself hetero flexible, I LIKE guys but the occasional female may ring my bells.

I just need to be more up front. But it almost seems rude, I mean you meet someone and talk for a bit, then just say "I'm not interested." I am still trying to feel completly comfortable in being me, alot of times I am just quiet. I came to the scene by myself and have only been active a short time.

My first real play experience didn't involve sex, but I was very picky on who I did it with, I wanted to make sure that it was a good experience. I havn't even really had sex, period, in over 7 years, so making that choice will be a difficult one.

 

[the captians wench]

Thank you. Yes that does help. I am also a big flirt, actually I was at one time. Sometimes I am now. And maybe a bit of an attention whore also. I would consider myself hetero flexible, I LIKE guys but the occasional female may ring my bells.

I just need to be more up front. But it almost seems rude, I mean you meet someone and talk for a bit, then just say "I'm not interested." I am still trying to feel completly comfortable in being me, alot of times I am just quiet. I came to the scene by myself and have only been active a short time.

My first real play experience didn't involve sex, but I was very picky on who I did it with, I wanted to make sure that it was a good experience. I havn't even really had sex, period, in over 7 years, so making that choice will be a difficult one.

I'm wired very strangely. I'm terribly shy, but I love all eyes to be on me. I can make out with a girl for hours, and not even be damp. *shrug*

I don't think it's rude to tell some one, "hey look, I enjoy your company, but it's just not clicking for me". That gives them too options. Either they stick it out with you (be it because they just enjoy your company as well, or they hope to sway you), or they wonder off looking for the next potential. Either way, you've laid out the lay of the land.

It was a full year of S&M play with friends before a playmate incorporated sex and BDSM. He was more into the domination aspect than the S&M, but still it was a totally knew and wild experience, and I'm still glad that he was the one that connected the two for me. He opened my eyes to a lot of things, and I still sincerely enjoy his company still. . . when he's around.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being picky. A girl has to have some standards! (even if those standards are having a pulse) If it doesn't click, it doesn't click, don't feel guilty or try to force it. If it's there it will come.

My mom tells me that she's always fallen in love first, and then the attraction came. For me, I tend to be attracted first, then comes the love. I've come to terms with the fact that many think that this makes me shallow, I could care less what most people think of me anyway. But more important, sexuality is a huge part of who I am, and if I don't feel it, I'm not sure I could spend my life with out it, or how ever long the relationship would stutter along.

Knowing you, what you want, need, can settle with, and can't live with out is vital, I think. I'd hold off on any serious searching until you have some concept of these things as they relate to you.

 

[celticsunspiral]

I don't think it's rude to tell some one, "hey look, I enjoy your company, but it's just not clicking for me". That gives them too options. Either they stick it out with you (be it because they just enjoy your company as well, or they hope to sway you), or they wonder off looking for the next potential. Either way, you've laid out the lay of the land.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being picky. A girl has to have some standards! (even if those standards are having a pulse) If it doesn't click, it doesn't click, don't feel guilty or try to force it. If it's there it will come.

My mom tells me that she's always fallen in love first, and then the attraction came. For me, I tend to be attracted first, then comes the love. I've come to terms with the fact that many think that this makes me shallow, I could care less what most people think of me anyway. But more important, sexuality is a huge part of who I am, and if I don't feel it, I'm not sure I could spend my life with out it, or how ever long the relationship would stutter along.

Knowing you, what you want, need, can settle with, and can't live with out is vital, I think. I'd hold off on any serious searching until you have some concept of these things as they relate to you.

I will try to take your advice on talking with them. I guess I was hoping they would get subtle hints, but some I think need to be hit over the head.

For me I have to respect in some manner the person, and if they could be 6' or taller, then mmmmm.

I know one reason I want to play around a little is because I don't exactly know what I want. I want to try almost everything, but be safe doing so. Honestly, I was worried that I would play the first time and be an utter failure. In my eyes even if not others, just that I have mentally been fantasizing and when it actually happened I wouldn't react the way I believed I would. The awesome experience I had over the weekend at least solved that problem. He took me a lot farther than I would have gone on a first scene and it was totally awesome, I was flying for 24 hrs. Think flogger and single tail.
I am hoping that now that I have played once I won't be as self conscious next time I am asked by someone who I trust to play with. I have waited years to be able to do this I just don't want to rush into the deep end of the pool with out first learning to swim.

I am working on a list of what I am looking for in a Dom, but I think it is more of a list for a LTR, than one for casual play.

 

[JMohegan]

OK, so I am about to show my total lack of social etiquette and knowledge.

But I would appreciate some opinions, It may seem trivial to some. First, please understand that I have not dated or been out in the world for a LONG time, actually about 20 years, since I was 16, and I haven't really looked at guys for all that time.

I have been going to local munches for the past 3 months and I have meet some really awesome people, Dom's and subs, etc. Made some great friendships, but I am not one to ask for help. Yes, I know that is a failing of mine but it can be so hard, and I WAY over think things. There are a couple of Dom's who are interested but I am not really feeling it for them. I have said in my profile that I want to be friends before anything else and they aren't pushing except in the fact that I feel like they are following me around. I kind of just want to go out and play and have fun. I don't think I am ready to settle down yet. Honestly, I want to try different things, I have only done very limited things and truly played only once (this past weekend and WOW). So here are my questions.

1) By continuing to talk with them am I leading them on? or should I, even though they haven't said anything, tell them that I am not interested in anything other than being friends? I can handle this so much easier online than in r/l.
2) Am I being to picky? Do you play with people you arn't attracted to either mentally or physically? Yes I know that is a real personal question, sorry.
3) What is a good way for me to get someone not to keep touching in a nice way?
4) Just any advice on navigating the live munch world would be good.

Everyone is really nice, I know the person in charge and if I can't deal with this myself then I know he will take care of it, but I would really like to figure this out on my own.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses,
caile

1) No and no.

2) No, you aren't being too picky. No, I don't play with people I find unattractive.

3) Nice way = taking him by the wrist and gently moving the offending hand, or stepping away slowly but pointedly. Nice is not always the right response. Firmer movement or even a slap and a "Knock it off!" may be called for if the guy's out of bounds. If he doesn't stop, don't hesitate to tell the person in charge.

4) At the munches, seek friendships with people who have similar, non-kink-related interests, and start socializing outside the munch construct.

 

[intothewoods]

There are many people in the scene who don't have a great sense of boundaries. Or maybe it's difficult to negotiate s&m scenes with casual partners. I don't know. I have certainly struggled with it.

1) By continuing to talk with them am I leading them on? or should I, even though they haven't said anything, tell them that I am not interested in anything other than being friends? I can handle this so much easier online than in r/l.
2) Am I being to picky? Do you play with people you arn't attracted to either mentally or physically? Yes I know that is a real personal question, sorry.
3) What is a good way for me to get someone not to keep touching in a nice way?
4) Just any advice on navigating the live munch world would be good.

1) No, if you're just chatting with someone, and they haven't brought up play, sex, whatever, then don't sweat it. It's not your responsibility to make everyone feel ok.
2) I play with people I am friends with, so we have that connection. You shouldn't feel obligated to play with anyone you don't want to, but I understand not wanting to be rude or turn someone down. It's hard.
3) In my circles, that's a big no-no that will get you kicked out in a heartbeat. I've had a few men touch me in conversation in somewhat intimate ways and I felt like it was kind of a dick corner-the-girl move. I'm not particularly physically inviting to people I don't like, and they seemed to get that and not repeat their actions. If it happened again, I would ask them to stop. If they did it again, I would not hesitate to tell the organizers discreetly.
4) Take your time. Once you've been going for a while, the initial "fresh meat" interest dies down and you make real connections.

 

[satindesire]

I just wanted to add something, some brain candy, if you will.

No offense to any guys out there, btw.

Men...do not get hints. If you are subtle, if you throw out little 'signals'...they will not get it. Men, in general, don't get subtlety. If you're not interested, a man will not find it insulting or rude of you to say (nicely), that you're not interested in them romantically. Unfortuantely, because men and women's brains are wired so differently, (generally) you have to be very up front and direct with men about ALL things. Tell them what you want, and you'll get it. Hint to them what you want, and...well, you'll be SOL.

So, keep that in mind, okay? Men don't think the way women do. Women (generally) might find it insulting were you to be so direct with them, but a man (generally) would not.

By the way, the whole touching thing? Sweetie, I don't mean to insult you, but grow some balls, mmkay? Someone keeps touching you because you're letting them by not being firm enough. If you have to be a bitch about it, then do it. Playing nicey-nicey and sugar-coating your rejection won't work for people who give off that creepy rapist vibe. I know you know what I mean. ^_^

 

[Noor]

I will try to take your advice on talking with them. I guess I was hoping they would get subtle hints, but some I think need to be hit over the head.

Subtle hints only work if everyone involved knows what exactly those hints mean, at best they are culturally and sub-culturally specific. I don't believe in using hints at all, as I miss hints all the time.
I usually notice a guy is interested in me when they try to kiss me, and being who I am, getting an unexpected attempted kiss can totally freak me out.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

.... <snippage>
1) By continuing to talk with them am I leading them on? or should I, even though they haven't said anything, tell them that I am not interested in anything other than being friends? I can handle this so much easier online than in r/l.
2) Am I being to picky? Do you play with people you arn't attracted to either mentally or physically? Yes I know that is a real personal question, sorry.
3) What is a good way for me to get someone not to keep touching in a nice way?
4) Just any advice on navigating the live munch world would be good.
.... <more snippage>

1) What ITW said is spot on. Chatting with someone is not asking them to father your progeny. If they indicate they think it is, politely but firmly let them know - clearly, as SatinD says - that your conversation is simply human interaction of the *social* type, not the sexual or even play type.
2) One *can* play with folks they're not attracted to either physically or mentally/emotionally, but for most people I know, there needs to be *some* connection, even if it's just a social friendship type connection, before play of any intimate nature could/should take place. I *have,* on occasion, done flogging and even caning "demonstrations" on people I'd never even seen 10 minutes beforehand, but I was never comfortable doing so, and wouldn't do so today unless there was *some* type of connection in conversation/negotiation prior to the play.
3)

3) Nice way = taking him by the wrist and gently moving the offending hand, or stepping away slowly but pointedly. Nice is not always the right response. Firmer movement or even a slap and a "Knock it off!" may be called for if the guy's out of bounds. If he doesn't stop, don't hesitate to tell the person in charge.

What he said.
4) Treat munches like any other social occasion: church pot-luck dinner, cocktail party, whatever. Mingle, socialize, determine which people in attendance are of interest to you (for whatever reason(s)), and gravitate toward those people. Just as in the "real world," munches often tend to break into little "bubbles" of like-minded people, who then interact (in various ways) with each other, and those bubbles sometimes overlap or not, depending on the similarities between their shared interests. If you get into a bubble with folks with similar interests, beliefs, etc., you'll find that those with vastly different interests, beliefs, etc., don't interact with your bubble much, if at all.

<snippity>
Men...do not get hints. If you are subtle, if you throw out little 'signals'...they will not get it. Men, in general, don't get subtlety. If you're not interested, a man will not find it insulting or rude of you to say (nicely), that you're not interested in them romantically. Unfortunately, because men and women's brains are wired so differently, (generally) you have to be very up front and direct with men about ALL things. Tell them what you want, and you'll get it. Hint to them what you want, and...well, you'll be SOL.

So, keep that in mind, okay? Men don't think the way women do. Women (generally) might find it insulting were you to be so direct with them, but a man (generally) would not.

By the way, the whole touching thing? Sweetie, I don't mean to insult you, but grow some balls, mmkay? Someone keeps touching you because you're letting them by not being firm enough. If you have to be a bitch about it, then do it. Playing nicey-nicey and sugar-coating your rejection won't work for people who give off that creepy rapist vibe. I know you know what I mean. ^_^

SD is soooo smart for such a youngster... I'm sure she has a very old soul. I can't really enlarge on what she said, just emphasize a couple of points.

 

[satindesire]

*Snip*
SD is soooo smart for such a youngster... I'm sure she has a very old soul. I can't really enlarge on what she said, just emphasize a couple of points.

Aw. Coming from you, that really means a lot. Thank you.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

SD is soooo smart for such a youngster... I'm sure she has a very old soul. I can't really enlarge on what she said, just emphasize a couple of points.

Aw. Coming from you, that really means a lot. Thank you.

I don't just toss out undeserved compliments willy-nilly. You've earned that one, many times over.

 

[satindesire]

I don't just toss out undeserved compliments willy-nilly. You've earned that one, many times over.

Well, thanks. Truly.

 

[caela]

1) By continuing to talk with them am I leading them on? or should I, even though they haven't said anything, tell them that I am not interested in anything other than being friends? I can handle this so much easier online than in r/l.
2) Am I being to picky? Do you play with people you arn't attracted to either mentally or physically? Yes I know that is a real personal question, sorry.
3) What is a good way for me to get someone not to keep touching in a nice way?
4) Just any advice on navigating the live munch world would be good.

1) Talking is NOT leading someone on. If they read too much into you being a kind and decent person that is their bad not yours. If you think someone might be getting the wrong idea, there is nothing wrong in just politely telling them that you enjoy their company and friendship but don't want things to go any further than that.

2) If you're looking for a relationship there is no reason for you NOT to be picky. If your looking just for friends to play with then standards will be a little different. I have played with people that I'm not attracted to sexually but who I am friends with and who know me well enough to know just how to push all the little pain buttons that feel so damned good! Playing with someone doesn't mean you want to have sex with them anymore than talking to them does, you just have to make sure your up front about that.

3) If someone is touching in a way you don't like you can start by politely moving their hand away, if they continue to try and touch then stop being nice and feel free to smack the offending appendage.

4) Navigating munches can be tricky. They vary widely just depending on their make-up. The munch I went to in my old city was wonderful. It was rather small and intimate which let everyone get to know each other pretty well and the group just meshed well. I pretty much avoid the munch group where I live now. I went a few times and while I initially liked the larger size of it I quickly found that it was sort of like being back in high school...including the cliques, catiness, and backstabbing that comes from a group of teenagers even though these were all adults who should have known how to behave better than they did. I would say just treat it mostly like any other group of adults, be nice and polite and enjoy making friends, have a great time(!) but also pay attention and don't let yourself get stepped on.

 

[satindesire]

*snip*
.I went a few times and while I initially liked the larger size of it I quickly found that it was sort of like being back in high school...including the cliques, catiness, and backstabbing that comes from a group of teenagers even though these were all adults who should have known how to behave better than they did.

/hijack/

Isn't it -sad- when high school doesn't end at the Senior Graduation ceremony?

I've come to realize now that I'm an official grown-up that...high school never really ends.

/endhijack/

 

[BiBunny]

When creepy drunk dudes grab me in bars and such, I always look at them pointedly and icily and say, "May I help you?" (The "asshole" on the end is implied.) It usually gets the point across.

I never have had any problems anywhere else, even around kinky people. Admittedly, I do give off the "unapproachable" vibe, and I work hard to keep it that way because I generally Do. Not. Like. to be touched.

 

[celticsunspiral]

Thank you all for your responses. You are all so awesome, open and honest, it is sooo nice.

I was thinking along similar lines but it is always nice to get others opinions. I need to stand-up more for myself than thus far. Sometimes I do a good job with this, others times maybe not so well. But I do need to step forward, if I am going to go by myself I need to be prepared to protect myself. But I am looking forward to when I am no longer "fresh meat." LOL.

I have found several people who I share interests with and will work on taking those interests outside of the munches and play parties. Finding the time is difficult but I will make time.

 

[1Spooky1]

What she said...

Men...do not get hints. If you are subtle, if you throw out little 'signals'...they will not get it. Men, in general, don't get subtlety. If you're not interested, a man will not find it insulting or rude of you to say (nicely), that you're not interested in them romantically. Unfortuantely, because men and women's brains are wired so differently, (generally) you have to be very up front and direct with men about ALL things. Tell them what you want, and you'll get it. Hint to them what you want, and...well, you'll be SOL.

So, keep that in mind, okay? Men don't think the way women do. Women (generally) might find it insulting were you to be so direct with them, but a man (generally) would not.

By the way, the whole touching thing? Sweetie, I don't mean to insult you, but grow some balls, mmkay? Someone keeps touching you because you're letting them by not being firm enough. If you have to be a bitch about it, then do it. Playing nicey-nicey and sugar-coating your rejection won't work for people who give off that creepy rapist vibe. I know you know what I mean. ^_^

As a man, I can tell you that SD has it right. Our brains are wired differently. I would recommend going to a used book store and finding the old book Men Are From Mars, Women are From Venus. That's a great reference for discovering how our brains, and our reactions are different and why.

As for people touching you...SD has that right as well. Don't let the guy touch you...if you have to be a bitch, do it. He'll get over it.

Good luck!

 

[unregistered]

 

[celticsunspiral]

1)
I’d say that this is a pretty straight forward issue in that it’s the same in any relationship oriented atmosphere. Be polite and firm in your desire to “browse and get to know people”. Be polite and clear in what you want for yourself. It’s a pretty common fallacy that everyone who labels themselves as a pyl must kowtow to anyone who labels themselves as a PYL at a munch or play party. Be polite, be clear.

I’ve never participated in a scene with someone who I wasn’t at least mentally attracted to.

Try some thing like, “I’m sorry, I appreciate your interest, but I’m not ready to allow someone into my personal space just yet.”

Be yourself. Be honest.

Thank you for the advice. I actually did talk to the main perpatrator and he was very understanding and apologized for pressing his advances. See I just need to be more clear and honest. Not that I'm not honest but sometimes I don't say what I should. Oh well, I will get better.

 

[unregistered]

 

[caela]

/hijack/

Isn't it -sad- when high school doesn't end at the Senior Graduation ceremony?

I've come to realize now that I'm an official grown-up that...high school never really ends.

/endhijack/

It's very sad. I look at people who act as if HS never ended and I always wonder why they are stuck in that mode. Maybe HS was really great for some of them and they think the rest of life will never compare but how would they ever really know since they don't give it a chance.

It's a mentality I can't really wrap my mind around so I just avoid it when I can.