Can a Lesbian Love a good man?

[Jagged]

Okay ladies I've met a few lesbians in my time and we've been friendly got a long and hung out. Even been kissed for being such a nice guy, but I've realized over time you can love anyone, but will love overcome your feelings towards the opposite sex.

I'm not some guy who thinks men can convert women, but I'm wondering about experiences, and I'm looking for a partner for a SRP here, so please give it a read and let me know if you're interested in writing together, and please share your thoughts.



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=32881134#post32881134

 

[Safe_Bet]

Okay ladies I've met a few lesbians in my time and we've been friendly got a long and hung out. Even been kissed for being such a nice guy, but I've realized over time you can love anyone, but will love overcome your feelings towards the opposite sex.

I'm not some guy who thinks men can convert women, but I'm wondering about experiences, and I'm looking for a partner for a SRP here, so please give it a read and let me know if you're interested in writing together, and please share your thoughts.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=32881134#post32881134

Oh, yes... the great straight guy fantasy. It would be even better if there were two of them and they were both big titted blondes with strapon, huh?

I personally like a little reality in my role play. This thing falls apart from the get go. If a "lesbian" and a guy become "more than friends" she is not a lesbian, dude. Bi maybe, but she can't have relations with a man (emotionally or physically) and still meet the definition of being a lesbian. K?

 

[Jagged]

Well the kind of response I expected. Clearly you didn't read the link I wrote because it isn't some porn, and it is a fantasy about love. I'm actually annoyed that you just see it that way, but whatever.

I simply saw the woman in this fantasy sure that she was a lesbian and just met someone who made her think she could be bisexual with the right man. Anyway I figured I would be writing this with a bi woman anyway. So thanks for the input.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Okay ladies I've met a few lesbians in my time and we've been friendly got a long and hung out. Even been kissed for being such a nice guy, but I've realized over time you can love anyone, but will love overcome your feelings towards the opposite sex.

I'm not some guy who thinks men can convert women, but I'm wondering about experiences, and I'm looking for a partner for a SRP here, so please give it a read and let me know if you're interested in writing together, and please share your thoughts.



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=32881134#post32881134

You know, I do see what you're saying. Sometimes I think it does no good to attach titles to ourselves, because in doing so, we automatically set limits whether we want to or not. For some people, sexuality is so fluid that one can go from loving women to men to TG and back to women either because it's just their nature, or because they haven't quite yet found their sexual niche.

For a while I went through a period where I essentially let other people's ideas about what they thought would make me happy influence my sexuality. I fucked some dick, and was incredibly unhappy and depressed while I went through this little charade, but in the end I was ten times more positive than I had been before that dick just wasn't for me....not real dick anyway.

On the flip side of that (and it's something I really can't quite figure out about myself), I can look at some men, and just think "Damn, he's fine..." but am totally repulsed at the idea of sex with those same men.

I can love members of the opposite sex...but that doesn't mean I'm in love. I'm sure other people would agree...they are two different things. I can overcome the way I feel about men if I become close friends with a guy. It does not, however, mean I want to bone him.

You aren't going to find lesbians who want to get with you, Jagged. You might find some bisexual chicks who are more attracted to women than men, or you might find a girl who considers herself a lesbian but is now considering the possibility that she's not.

You'll never SRP with Melissa Etheridge, but you might find Anne Heche making some time for you.

 

[Jagged]

Thanks TF,

You have my thinking on this idea, and your right I'm not expecting a lesbian whose secure with herself to just fall for some man, but someone who never considered the possibility of anything else. I for one am secure I'm one on the scale of sexuality and I'm straight, and I don't desire the same sex. They can only be good and close friends.

Other people I understand are more open, and some have been pushed a certain way, because of outside forces. Frankly I wish guys and lesbians were friends more, because I think we have a lot more in common than we think. Disgust for or a strange fascination isn't the way to start a friendship either.

Hey to anyone if you find someone who makes you happy and it works, enjoy it.

 

[androgEros]

You know, I do see what you're saying. Sometimes I think it does no good to attach titles to ourselves, because in doing so, we automatically set limits whether we want to or not. For some people, sexuality is so fluid that one can go from loving women to men to TG and back to women either because it's just their nature, or because they haven't quite yet found their sexual niche.

For a while I went through a period where I essentially let other people's ideas about what they thought would make me happy influence my sexuality. I fucked some dick, and was incredibly unhappy and depressed while I went through this little charade, but in the end I was ten times more positive than I had been before that dick just wasn't for me....not real dick anyway.

On the flip side of that (and it's something I really can't quite figure out about myself), I can look at some men, and just think "Damn, he's fine..." but am totally repulsed at the idea of sex with those same men.

I can love members of the opposite sex...but that doesn't mean I'm in love. I'm sure other people would agree...they are two different things. I can overcome the way I feel about men if I become close friends with a guy. It does not, however, mean I want to bone him.

You aren't going to find lesbians who want to get with you, Jagged. You might find some bisexual chicks who are more attracted to women than men, or you might find a girl who considers herself a lesbian but is now considering the possibility that she's not.

You'll never SRP with Melissa Etheridge, but you might find Anne Heche making some time for you.

Damn woman! You can write!!!

Backing that up, whole heartedly, homosexuality has already been proven to be genetic. Being a lesbian is not a choice. It is a personality. If a woman has ANY predispostion to men, she is bi-sexual, at most.

If you truly believe that any lesbian can "overcome" her sexuality for the "right guy", then you must also believe that
any man has the potential to become attracted to a man, at any point. A lesbian has no more inclination to be attracted to a man, than a heterosexual man does. It is ONLY the heterosexual male, that is naive enough to think that lesbianism is subject to the best persuader.

I read your story idea. No lesbian would ever buy it. I doubt many het. women would either.

Make the guy in your story, post op trans, then you might have something to go on.....

Course you'd be ripping off Better Than Chocolate.

 

[Jagged]

Well I thought it would be a woman identifying herself as a lesbian, but I see your point and its valid. Just saw the female in the story as someone never opened to the possibility. Thanks for at least reading the story though. SHould have just made it clear it was a bi woman

 

[Etoile]

There's some unfortunate closed-mindedness in this thread.

What about lesbians who are trying to deny their sexuality and sleep with men as a result?
What about lesbians who enjoy public bondage play and get topped by a man?
What about lesbians who have been married to a man for 35 years and sleep with him because it's their wifely duty?

You don't get to dictate someone's sexuality. They do. You can think all you want "oh she slept with a man, she must be bisexual" but the fact remains SHE is the one to declare her sexuality. Sexuality is fluid. But it's also a useful label.

I've slept with a guy in the past, at the time I liked it. Go ahead, label me bisexual. I know it's bullshit, because I know I'm a lesbian. But sure, paint me with your omnipotent brush and say I'm bisexual. Ignore what I know about my innermost feelings, ignore what I know about my preferences, and label me your way. Lord knows I'm not capable of labeling myself!

 

[none2_none2]

There's some unfortunate closed-mindedness in this thread.

What about lesbians who are trying to deny their sexuality and sleep with men as a result?
What about lesbians who enjoy public bondage play and get topped by a man?
What about lesbians who have been married to a man for 35 years and sleep with him because it's their wifely duty?

You don't get to dictate someone's sexuality. They do. You can think all you want "oh she slept with a man, she must be bisexual" but the fact remains SHE is the one to declare her sexuality. Sexuality is fluid. But it's also a useful label.

I've slept with a guy in the past, at the time I liked it. Go ahead, label me bisexual. I know it's bullshit, because I know I'm a lesbian. But sure, paint me with your omnipotent brush and say I'm bisexual. Ignore what I know about my innermost feelings, ignore what I know about my preferences, and label me your way. Lord knows I'm not capable of labeling myself!

If I've learned anything from this board it is that sexuality is sometimes very HARD to lable even if one loves labels. I'm not even sure I know anymore what the labels are. Since the topic is lesbian love for men, I'll leave male homosexuality out of it. (Plus omitting it cuts down on the permutations.) If lesbianism is the emotional as well as the physical attraction of one woman to another woman, then maybe five years ago, maybe even one year ago, that would have been simple to understand. However, from the board I no loner really get even what seems to be a simple definition especially since we throw in transgender in the mix. The permutations make it all so confusing. If a lesbian falls in love with another natal woman who later feels that she is transgendered and that lesbian still loves her both emotionally and sexually regardless of how far her partner goes with the transition, is she somehow less of a lesbian? Likewise, what about the lesbian meets an interesting natal man who has come out as transgendered. Does her degree of lesbianism depend upon how long she refrains before finding this natal man in transition emotionally/sexually attractive?

I agree that we never can dictate another person's sexuality - even if we want to use Websters dictionary to argue they aren't using the terms correctly. (Oh how many times I wanted to scream the next time I hear: I'm 100% straight, but love cock.) It is their label to choose to use. If this woman chooses to use the term lesbian, I would assume if I were a regular straight man, that I'm not going to be on her dance card list. Maybe if I was an androgynous straight man I might want a clarification on what lesbianism means specifically to THAT woman.

However, that being said, I think it is best to go even further than just hearing the labels that another person chooses to use. I think the best thing is to assume that another human being is 100% NOT attracted to you, and let the friendship develop. If the relationship was meant to go further than platonic friendship, it will. I say this because it can be just as stupid to assume that because someone is gay that they are attracted to all gay people.

I remember when being rejected shot my self-esteem, but as I matured I realized that what people are attracted to is as varied as each snowflake is. It also doesn't really matter WHY someone rejects you. Maybe it is your plumbing (male/famale), maybe it is the size of your plumbing, maybe it is your age, maybe it is your height, maybe it is your weight, maybe it is your race, maybe it is where you are on the masculine/feminine scale. Perhaps it is something as mundane as you chew your food in such a way that it reminds the person of their child hood enemy.

The bottom line is why embarrass oneself by assuming someone is attracted to you when they have never given you any such clear indication? If you are interested you can always drop a hint. If there is no reciprocal hint, drop it, and just be glad you are friends. I also think people forget just how important other forms of emotion are. Non-romantic loves can be just as meaningful and as necessary as romantic love.

 

[jessymil1980]

I haven't read the story yet, but the idea does have some possiblities.
I can tell you that from my experience, sexuallity moves. At one time I was 100% lez. I had a great guy friend, a best friend. He had trouble with the ladies, so I told him I would go out with him to a local dance. I dressed up, something I didn't do much then. When he saw me come down the stairs, I could tell he cam in his pants. That made me very arroused. That was the first time a guy had arroused me. Since then I have known that I was BI, and enjoy both sides. So it can happen, especially when you haven't been exposed to it yet.

 

[androgEros]

Non-romantic loves can be just as meaningful and as necessary as romantic love.

.
PUT THAT ON A PLAQUE, AND FRAME IT IN GOLD.

I wish you could tell my ex this. We have lived together since I was seventeen. I had our son when I was eighteen. We haven't been "intimate" since I was twenty-seven. I'm thirty now. Two years ago, I met my girlfriend, J, who I am sexually active with.

Cat and I still live together, and raise our son together. We all have discussesd, in great depth, every possible living arrangement, and even though Cat and I are no longer in a sexual relationship, we still need each other.

I haven't read the story yet, but the idea does have some possiblities.
I can tell you that from my experience, sexuallity moves. At one time I was 100% lez. I had a great guy friend, a best friend. He had trouble with the ladies, so I told him I would go out with him to a local dance. I dressed up, something I didn't do much then. When he saw me come down the stairs, I could tell he cam in his pants. That made me very arroused. That was the first time a guy had arroused me. Since then I have known that I was BI, and enjoy both sides. So it can happen, especially when you haven't been exposed to it yet.

You were never lesbian. You were just biased by experience you had been exposed to, or the lack thereof.


Suppose that lesbianism, can only be defined by a natal woman who has sexual, emotional and psychological desires for another natal woman, and has also had a sexual encounter with a man, be it by her own will or otherwise; and felt no sexual desire for him, before, during or afterwards. This woman can then "define" her sexuality by the desire for the same sex, drawn from experience, and her distaste for the opposite sex, drawn from experience.
((Not that a lesbian has to have sex with a man, to know they are not appealing.))

 

[Safe_Bet]

There's some unfortunate closed-mindedness in this thread.

What about lesbians who are trying to deny their sexuality and sleep with men as a result?
What about lesbians who enjoy public bondage play and get topped by a man?
What about lesbians who have been married to a man for 35 years and sleep with him because it's their wifely duty?

You don't get to dictate someone's sexuality. They do. You can think all you want "oh she slept with a man, she must be bisexual" but the fact remains SHE is the one to declare her sexuality. Sexuality is fluid. But it's also a useful label.

I've slept with a guy in the past, at the time I liked it. Go ahead, label me bisexual. I know it's bullshit, because I know I'm a lesbian. But sure, paint me with your omnipotent brush and say I'm bisexual. Ignore what I know about my innermost feelings, ignore what I know about my preferences, and label me your way. Lord knows I'm not capable of labeling myself!

Important things first: Happy New Years, hon. Hope you and your SO rang in the new year with good cheer. Hugs to both of you.


******************************************


I don't see any closed-mindedness here. We have been talking in hypothetical and nobody mentioned any non subjective time frames.

Of course, a person's orientation can APPEAR to be fluid... of course, people can change what they do and how they act as they mature and change life status... of course, people can enjoy bondage, etc. performed on them by a person of a different gender (although in that case the person's gender is almost secondary to the behavior, I'm guessing).

But all of that is different that the original preface of a lesbian chick sitting on a bar stool and romantically falling in love with a guy. If at that EXACT instant, if she is capable of emotionally/physically loving a man and having an on going relationship with him - SHE AIN'T A LESBIAN!

Both of us know you are a freakin dyke, dear, but do I think you were a lesbian while you were having sexually intercourse with that guy (and liking it)? Nope.

I know how much you dislike labels. We differ there cuz I think they DO have valid meanings. I also think that they need to be used correctly and judiciously. For example, I'm sure that we have a WAY different definition of where people fall on the Kinsey Scale. For me I've mentally got 1% straight, 1% queer and everybody else is Bi (and unlike N2N2 I understand the difference between orientation and gender in regards to TG peeps = they ain't the same thing and often aren't truly connected!). I'm guessing that you see how people fall on the K scale quite differently and believe that we constantly are moving around on it, right?

P.S. Regarding the wifely duties part: Pfffft! Those are male dominated control beliefs. At best they are chauvinistic; at worse they are nothing less than vile rape.

 

[Etoile]

Suppose that lesbianism, can only be defined by a natal woman who has sexual, emotional and psychological desires for another natal woman

What's with the insistence on/inclusion of natal?

 

[androgEros]

What's with the insistence on/inclusion of natal?

to diferentiate from a "woman" who is post-op, after being born a man.

If you're born a man, then have a sex change to be a woman, and you are sexually attracted to women, there is a whole other debate, as to wether you are a lesbian or a hetoerosexual male, in a woman's body. I was simplifying that I was referring to women born as women.

 

[Etoile]

But all of that is different that the original preface of a lesbian chick sitting on a bar stool and romantically falling in love with a guy.

Oh I know it's different from the original idea, I was just following some of the other stuff I had read here!

If at that EXACT instant, if she is capable of emotionally/physically loving a man and having an on going relationship with him - SHE AIN'T A LESBIAN!

Both of us know you are a freakin dyke, dear, but do I think you were a lesbian while you were having sexually intercourse with that guy (and liking it)? Nope.

Okay, but you go on to say that you feel people DON'T constantly move around on the Kinsey scale (at least that is what I inferred). So if I wasn't a lesbian then, how can I be one now? (Bear in mind that I was much younger when I had sex with this guy...this was a long time ago.)

I know how much you dislike labels. We differ there cuz I think they DO have valid meanings. I also think that they need to be used correctly and judiciously. For example, I'm sure that we have a WAY different definition of where people fall on the Kinsey Scale. For me I've mentally got 1% straight, 1% queer and everybody else is Bi (and unlike N2N2 I understand the difference between orientation and gender in regards to TG peeps = they ain't the same thing and often aren't truly connected!). I'm guessing that you see how people fall on the K scale quite differently and believe that we constantly are moving around on it, right?

Aww, you should know from seeing me post that I DO like labels! I think they are valid too! They help us understand each other at a glance or with a word. For example, when I say I'm a lesbian, that means I am not emotionally, physically, or mentally attracted to men. "Lesbian" is a convenient way to sum that up. But at the time I had sex with the guy, I STILL wasn't any of those things, I was an experimenting teenager. And I liked it because sex feels good, not because I liked him in any particular way. (Would it make a difference for you if I hadn't liked it?) I actually see most people as pretty static on the Kinsey scale in terms of self-definition, but where we differ is that I don't feel behavior necessarily alters a person's position on the scale. (This is where the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid is more useful than the Kinsey Scale.)

I agree with you that very few people are Kinsey 0 or Kinsey 6. I usually put myself at about a 5, because I think Ian McKellen is totally hot (along with Johnny Depp). But just because I'm not a 6 doesn't mean I'm bisexual...bisexual is a 3. See? Sure, there are bisexual people who prefer one gender over another, but generally they are a 3...open to the possibility of both. I'm not. Just because I had sex with a guy in the past doesn't mean I want to now. I'm a lesbian (a dyke ) because this is who I am. Politically, culturally, emotionally, physically, mentally lesbian.

 

[Etoile]

to diferentiate from a "woman" who is post-op, after being born a man.

If you're born a man, then have a sex change to be a woman, and you are sexually attracted to women, there is a whole other debate, as to wether you are a lesbian or a hetoerosexual male, in a woman's body. I was simplifying that I was referring to women born as women.

Wow, really? That kind of ridicules the whole trans experience IMO. Bodies don't matter, brains do. Even if a t-girl is PRE-op, if she feels she's a woman, you call her a man anyway?

 

[androgEros]

gee, and I'm just a lsbian by nature....

 

[androgEros]

Wow, really? That kind of ridicules the whole trans experience IMO. Bodies don't matter, brains do. Even if a t-girl is PRE-op, if she feels she's a woman, you call her a man anyway?

You've clearly missed the whole point. Take some Ritalin, and come back to it.

Actually, some t-girls are more capable of being lesbian, than some vagina-borns are. It depends on the state of being.

 

[Etoile]

You've clearly missed the whole point. Take some Ritalin, and come back to it.

Insults aside, I'm pretty sure I understood you clearly. You wanted to simplify the issue because there is "a whole other debate." I don't feel there is one. Then again, I also feel MWMF should re-examine their policies, so perhaps we just disagree on this.

 

[androgEros]

Insults aside, I'm pretty sure I understood you clearly. You wanted to simplify the issue because there is "a whole other debate." I don't feel there is one. Then again, I also feel MWMF should re-examine their policies, so perhaps we just disagree on this.

We definately disagree. I don't think lesbianism is an on/off switch, that can be toggled by "once enjoying sex with men". Nor do I believe that a person has to be born sans-penis, to think, live, feel and act like a lesbian.

But there is a diference between someone who lived the first part of their life as a man, and someone who was born as a woman. Even if a person of dark decent, bleaches their skin, their race doesn't change....

 

[Etoile]

We definately disagree. I don't think lesbianism is an on/off switch, that can be toggled by "once enjoying sex with men". Nor do I believe that a person has to be born sans-penis, to think, live, feel and act like a lesbian.

But there is a diference between someone who lived the first part of their life as a man, and someone who was born as a woman. Even if a person of dark decent, bleaches their skin, their race doesn't change....

Hmm. Okay, I see that. It wasn't at all clear to me what you meant before. Fair enough. I don't feel there's a BIG difference, but I can see there is some difference.

Honestly, I think it's a third set of experiences. They didn't necessarily grow up male in the traditional sense, they grew up confused and different.

 

[Jagged]

Wow.....now what I expected to start. Wasn't looking for the conflict ladies I'd been kicking the idea around for awhile, so I thought I'd finally sit down and right it. I didn't expect to do this, but well I really wasn't thinking to far ahead. Always glad to have people talking though.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Wow.....now what I expected to start. Wasn't looking for the conflict ladies I'd been kicking the idea around for awhile, so I thought I'd finally sit down and right it. I didn't expect to do this, but well I really wasn't thinking to far ahead. Always glad to have people talking though.

Jagged, do the damn SRP. Just see what happens. You're not trying to drastically change anyone's life with this thing, just have a little fun.

I'm not getting down with all the debating. Go have fun.

 

[Jagged]

You too...take care.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Damn woman! You can write!!!

Thank you.