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Well this doesn't bode well

Antibiotics were the greatest blessing of the twentieth century and one of the most misused. Drug companies stopped researching vaccines because with antibiotics "they wouldn't be needed". Right! Theoretically, it is possible to develop a vaccine that protects against all diseases but that's only a theory. The probability of someone actually developing one like that within the next hundred years are somewhere between slim and less than that. Instead, we need to concentrate on vaccines against the Big Killers but if it were easy, we'd already have them. We're getting close on Malaria and that's an incredible accomplishment but TB is clear over the horizon. And let's not even mention a vaccine against HIV. Lots of luck, on that one!

There's a book that came out a few years ago called The Coming Plague by Laurie Garret. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
 
Individual to individual: what Tony said!

More widely, how, given evidence like this, can anyone deny evolution? The human species is moving slowly, but others, thanks to humans, are evolving all too fast!

Or is it like global warming: it isn't happening - at least, not because of us...
 
Looks as if Mom Nature's fixin' to cull the herd. :eek:
 
Ah, an appropriate response! Keep trembling, everyone, and watch your exercise and diet. A strong immune system is your best defense!
 

The abuse ( mainly the overuse and over-prescription ) of antibiotics is largely to blame for nosocomial nasties, MRSA and XXDR.

It is— as always seems the case— the relatively few abusers who create problems for the larger population. There is a segment of the population that demands and "pops" antibiotics like candy, enabled by Rx-happy physicians.

Merck & Co., Bristol-Myers Squibb, Abbott Labs, Eli Lily & Co., Merck KGaA, Pfizer, Sanofi-Aventis, GlaxoSmithKline, Roche, Novartis and AstraZeneca are your friends.

 
Aw, c'mon, Trysail. The FDA deserves a little credit, too. Neither government nor big business is all bad. Nor all good!!!
 
What is truly scarey about something like this to me is the fact that it has already mutated once. This means that it most likely will mutate again as soon as we develope a new treatment for it. We are already dealing with this problem with other bacteria.

The causes for this are multiple and while some have been touched upon here the main causes have yet to be talked about.

One cause which has been mentioned here is the over prescribing of the medications. The causes of this is our own laziness and unwillingness to deal with our own illnesses. (Hey Doc I don't feel well and if you don't give me something that will make me feel better then I'll go to someone who will.)

Another cause, and one that isn't mentioned here is our own fear of bacteria and/or dirt. We don't allow the kids to go out and play in the dirt. The kids aren't being exposed to bacteria when they are young which weakens their immune response when they are older.

The biggest cause though is people not finishing their treatment regimens. They are given a course of anti-biotics to take, (usually something like ten days,) and stop when they start feeling better. This causes a mutation in the bacteria. The shortened regimen means that only the weaker bacteria are killed off which leaves the stronger ones to multiply. These stronger ones are more resistant to the anti-biotic.

Cat
 
SeaCat said:
What is truly scarey about something like this to me is the fact that it has already mutated once. This means that it most likely will mutate again as soon as we develope a new treatment for it. We are already dealing with this problem with other bacteria.

The causes for this are multiple and while some have been touched upon here the main causes have yet to be talked about.

One cause which has been mentioned here is the over prescribing of the medications. The causes of this is our own laziness and unwillingness to deal with our own illnesses. (Hey Doc I don't feel well and if you don't give me something that will make me feel better then I'll go to someone who will.)

Another cause, and one that isn't mentioned here is our own fear of bacteria and/or dirt. We don't allow the kids to go out and play in the dirt. The kids aren't being exposed to bacteria when they are young which weakens their immune response when they are older.

The biggest cause though is people not finishing their treatment regimens. They are given a course of anti-biotics to take, (usually something like ten days,) and stop when they start feeling better. This causes a mutation in the bacteria. The shortened regimen means that only the weaker bacteria are killed off which leaves the stronger ones to multiply. These stronger ones are more resistant to the anti-biotic.

Cat
Click to expand...

And don't forget routinely medicating livestock so that they will stay "well" and fatten up faster. Then the pathogens that are capable of hopping over to humans are also more immune because the dosages given to livestock are maintenance doses, not curative ones.
 
SeaCat said:
What is truly scarey about something like this to me is the fact that it has already mutated once. This means that it most likely will mutate again as soon as we develope a new treatment for it. We are already dealing with this problem with other bacteria.

The causes for this are multiple and while some have been touched upon here the main causes have yet to be talked about.

One cause which has been mentioned here is the over prescribing of the medications. The causes of this is our own laziness and unwillingness to deal with our own illnesses. (Hey Doc I don't feel well and if you don't give me something that will make me feel better then I'll go to someone who will.)

Another cause, and one that isn't mentioned here is our own fear of bacteria and/or dirt. We don't allow the kids to go out and play in the dirt. The kids aren't being exposed to bacteria when they are young which weakens their immune response when they are older.

The biggest cause though is people not finishing their treatment regimens. They are given a course of anti-biotics to take, (usually something like ten days,) and stop when they start feeling better. This causes a mutation in the bacteria. The shortened regimen means that only the weaker bacteria are killed off which leaves the stronger ones to multiply. These stronger ones are more resistant to the anti-biotic.

Cat
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct that the failure of people to complete their prescribed treatment regimens results in drug resistance. Normal genetic mutation plays a role but is modest by comparison. As you allude, the failure to complete the course leaves bacteria that are most resistant to antibiotics— a form of evolution by natural selection.

This is but the latest episode in the never-ending battle between man and ever-evolving pathogens; it has always been, is and always will be a race.

 
SeaCat said:
cause, and one that isn't mentioned here is our own fear of bacteria and/or dirt. We don't allow the kids to go out and play in the dirt. The kids aren't being exposed to bacteria when they are young which weakens their immune response when they are older.
Click to expand...

The antimicrobial cleaners that are in everyday use are as big a contributor to that as not allowing kids to go out and get dirty. Spraying/cleaning everydamnthing with antimicrobial cleaners, in an effort to make our kids "healthier" is actually going to make them sicker in the long run. There's a hypothesis out there gaining momentum that today's kids' allergies, particularly to things that we could all eat or otherwise be exposed to as much as we wanted, are caused by people's "too-clean" households.
 
Katyusha said:
The antimicrobial cleaners that are in everyday use are as big a contributor to that as not allowing kids to go out and get dirty. Spraying/cleaning everydamnthing with antimicrobial cleaners, in an effort to make our kids "healthier" is actually going to make them sicker in the long run. There's a hypothesis out there gaining momentum that today's kids' allergies, particularly to things that we could all eat or otherwise be exposed to as much as we wanted, are caused by people's "too-clean" households.
Click to expand...

No wonder my cubs are so healthy! :D
 
Experiments in the 60s with raising lambs in a sterile environment resulted in improper growth and development, ending in early death. We all have evolved in symbiosis with microrganisms; no bacteria, no villi in our intestines. No villi, no proper digestion. If we aren't exposed to the symbiotes, we don't develop properly, and if we miss meeting the nasties when we're very young, we fail to develop resistance to them when we're older.

As to antibiotic resistance, what did we expect? Bacteria are living, reproducing beings, and subject to the benefits of mutation and selection. They also communicate with each other, sharing nucleic acids and potentially spreading resistance more rapidly than through natural selection alone. Bacteria and unicellulars reproduce without sex, but they also have sex without reproduction, endlessly conjugating and exchanging genetic material.

We'd best give them all more respect than to think we can "silver bullet" them into extinction.
 
On that note, we do need to differentiate between the symbiotes and the predators. The extinction of smallpox is a feat not to be taken lightly and the impending demise of poliomyelitis should not be regretted. But just as there is a big difference between honeybees and termites, microbes have 'good guys' and 'bad guys' as well. We need to treasure the former while defending ourselves in every way possible against the bad. Pan-lethal wipes and sprays are not the way to go!
 
voluptuary_manque said:
On that note, we do need to differentiate between the symbiotes and the predators. The extinction of smallpox is a feat not to be taken lightly and the impending demise of poliomyelitis should not be regretted. But just as there is a big difference between honeybees and termites, microbes have 'good guys' and 'bad guys' as well. We need to treasure the former while defending ourselves in every way possible against the bad. Pan-lethal wipes and sprays are not the way to go!
Click to expand...

My father had polio when he was twelve, and I heard his stories about that time, so I won't be sorry to see it go the way of smallpox. The only thing is that some people seem to think that vaccinations are "bad for their kids," and won't have them vaccinated. This not only puts their own children at risk, but everyone else's kids, as well.

They've stopped vaccinating for smallpox (I still have the scar), but it could make a comeback if we aren't careful.

I don't use all those wipes, sprays, etc. I refuse to. Getting dirty didn't hurt the five of us at all, and hasn't seemed to hurt any of my three, either.
 
cloudy said:
My father had polio when he was twelve, and I heard his stories about that time, so I won't be sorry to see it go the way of smallpox. The only thing is that some people seem to think that vaccinations are "bad for their kids," and won't have them vaccinated. This not only puts their own children at risk, but everyone else's kids, as well.

They've stopped vaccinating for smallpox (I still have the scar), but it could make a comeback if we aren't careful.

I don't use all those wipes, sprays, etc. I refuse to. Getting dirty didn't hurt the five of us at all, and hasn't seemed to hurt any of my three, either.
Click to expand...

I was part of the first wave of polio vaccinations. Nobody asked us or our parents if we wanted them and Eisenhower wasn't the least bit worried about anyone's tender sensibilities. "Get in line, roll up your sleeve, and while you're at it, shut up!" This parents' rights bullsh*t has gotten entirely out of hand, at least as far as vaccinations are concerned. This is a public health issue. If you don't want your kids vaccinated, fine. We'll just quarantine the entire household. No one leaves or enters the house until those vaccinations are complete. Come let us reason together. :mad:
 
Stella_Omega said:
You can't tell the drug companies not to market their shit-- that's socialism and communism and interfering with Free Trade!
Click to expand...

Nor, unfortunately, can you tell patients to shut up and sleep something off when they come whining to the GP for antibiotics when what they have is patently a virus that won't be affected by them in any way--except to start a resistant strain of something otherwise trivial in their systems. That's the problem in HM's service area. The hospital itself is vigilant and responds appropriately but MRSA is in the population. It isn't just a hospital sickness there, people out on the block carry the stuff. And let's not even talk about the admissions that come in from nursing homes! :eek:
 
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