Have we another "Yellow Cake?"

[JackLuis]

I caught this story about Iran planning to test a nuclear trigger and began to wonder if our intelligence isn't being "pushed"?

Remember when Dick & W were talking about how the British had "discovered" that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake? You may not have heard that it was discovered that that letter was faked, possibly by the Italian spooks, and palmed off on the British, after the French rejected the obvious forgery.

And then Joe WIlson and Valery Plame, Scooter took the fall and it was all hush hush as it became clear that the CIA had probably helped to prepare the forgeries.

Now the Brits have leaked THIS. Do you believe it?

Just who is fucking whom?

 

[Handley_Page]

And WHY ?

 

[JackLuis]

Yes, why we've got enough on our plate!

 

[xssve]

Of course they're still working on developing nuclear weapons, don't be naive - and Dick Cheney is probably still helping them do it.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Ahmanijehad would say it was fake whether it was true or not. His statement is no more reliable than Cheney's. Why believe him, given all the other deranged things he's said?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Ahmanijehad would say it was fake whether it was true or not. His statement is no more reliable than Cheney's. Why believe him, given all the other deranged things he's said?

That's the worst of this sort of business. Once we know that our own intelligence has been "pushed" in the past, we're left with no good faith in anyone. I do wish humans would have a little more thought for that whole "long-term consequences" thing now and then.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Okay, anyone who actually believed that Iran would (could) by "yellow cake" form The Niger, raise your hands. The Niger is evern more backward than Iran and only heard about Nuclear energy in 2007.

So Dick Chaney pushed the yellow cake story which is supposed to have come from the Brits but was disproven prior to the announcement. This was just one more example of the "cherry picking" going on in the Bush Administration to push us into war with Iraq.

Personally, I don't believe either the U.S. Government or the Iranians. When the U.N. Nuclear inspectors say the Iranians are producing "weapons grade" Plutonium, I'll be worried.

Do I think the Iranians are going to use nuclear weapons against the U.S.? Not really. More likely they will use them agains Israel - and who cares? The Israelis have been terrible neighbors for years. They bring shit upon themselves.

 

[JackLuis]

I my question wasn't about Ahmanijehad's reaction but to the idea that we can no longer trust our own Government to find the truth. Sad, but demonstrably true.

I have no faith in the British Intel. We saw from the Yellow Cake papers that they are servants of the City of London, not the British people.

If someone is "pushing" the Intel, why? Handly Page asked and it does puzzle me. Pressuring Iran now keeps a 'boogyman" in the spot light to divert our attention from the stupidity of our Afghan and Iraq policies, and how much money is doled out to contractors and skimmed off by pol's on all sides.

I read yesterday that Afghanistan is the 174th least developed country out of ~ 178, with literacy rates of 24% and going down because of the war. So Obama is going to "take up "the whiteman's burden" and and bring good government to Afghanistan? That is not going to happen, there are too many cultural obstacles for ~150,000 men with guns to overcome. But Afghanistan is on one side of Iran and so being there does influence the Iranians.

Is it Iran's Oil? The Brits have had a good deal of influence in Iranian oil, until the revolution. Are they anxious to get a piece of Iranian oil? Not much chance of that unless the Islamic Republic falls to pieces.

No doubt that this is going to be exposed as right or wrong, just like the Yellow Cake Papers. I just hope that we don't get a war started with Iran because they have a lot of men and pretty good weapons. Iran would take a whole lot more than Rummies "$200 Billion" to conquer.

I find that World Politics are difficult to completely understand. With the stage craft and deceptions and slight of hand it is hard to figure out who is doing want to whom. One thing I know is that who ever gets fucked in this instance is not going to like it one bit.

 

[Edward Teach]

Okay, anyone who actually believed that Iran would (could) by "yellow cake" form The Niger, raise your hands. The Niger is evern more backward than Iran and only heard about Nuclear energy in 2007.

So Dick Chaney pushed the yellow cake story which is supposed to have come from the Brits but was disproven prior to the announcement. This was just one more example of the "cherry picking" going on in the Bush Administration to push us into war with Iraq.

Personally, I don't believe either the U.S. Government or the Iranians. When the U.N. Nuclear inspectors say the Iranians are producing "weapons grade" Plutonium, I'll be worried.

Do I think the Iranians are going to use nuclear weapons against the U.S.? Not really. More likely they will use them agains Israel - and who cares? The Israelis have been terrible neighbors for years. They bring shit upon themselves.

You don't care if Isreal gets nuked??? Are you serious, JJ?

 

[WRJames]

II find that World Politics are difficult to completely understand. With the stage craft and deceptions and slight of hand it is hard to figure out who is doing want to whom. One thing I know is that who ever gets fucked in this instance is not going to like it one bit.

There are a lot of things going on in great secrecy. Remember Irangate? How many people in American poiltics had any clue that was going on?

The Iranian government is, if anything, more secretive. There may be a sincere belief that it is purely a civilian program, while at the same time there is a very secret nuclear weapons initiative.

Still, it is hard to imagine that an Iranian nuclear attack on Israel would be anything other than suicidal. It there is any rationale behind an Iranian nuclear weapons program, it would be as a deterent, not for aggressive purposes.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Look. The Iranians are not going to nuke Israel. WE are the problem. The U.S., Britain, Inda, ISRAEL Russian and the old Soviet Block Countries who have nuclear weapons made some rules for the rest of the world. We said YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY. So your neighbor, Israel, has nuclear weapons you feel uncomfortable. We pass laws and enter into treaties with each other saying you can't have any. Does that make you feel safe being at both a defensive and offensive disadvantage? Can we trust Israel any more than we can trust the U.S. Government?

Of course Iran feels threatened. So does Syria and Lebanon. So, using the U.S.-Soviet pattern, Israel has Nukes, you get bigger nukes, so Israel gets more and bigger nukes and... There it is, another arms race.

 

[Guest]

Look. The Iranians are not going to nuke Israel. WE are the problem. The U.S., Britain, Inda, ISRAEL Russian and the old Soviet Block Countries who have nuclear weapons made some rules for the rest of the world. We said YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY. So your neighbor, Israel, has nuclear weapons you feel uncomfortable. We pass laws and enter into treaties with each other saying you can't have any. Does that make you feel safe being at both a defensive and offensive disadvantage? Can we trust Israel any more than we can trust the U.S. Government?

Of course Iran feels threatened. So does Syria and Lebanon. So, using the U.S.-Soviet pattern, Israel has Nukes, you get bigger nukes, so Israel gets more and bigger nukes and... There it is, another arms race.

Absolutely correct. Meanwhile, we sit around our coffee tables and our political offices bitching about a "Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty" and whomever happens to be trying to violate it without actually dismantling our own nukes.

When your neighbor has a stick, you want a stick to defend yourself.
When your neighbor has a gun, you want a gun to defend yourself.
Is the concept so different with nuclear weapons?

The only thing that might stop this from becoming another arms race is that countries are catching up to technology that we already have instead of trying to develop it ahead of us. Any nuclear power can tip the balance significantly by selling their weapons. That wasn't so much of an option the first time around.

This time scares me more. Not only is there the possibility of selling fully developed nuclear weapons technology, there's a religious war between nations participating in this arms race in the middle east and southwest Asia.

 

[Handley_Page]

" Remember when Dick & W were talking about how the British had "discovered" that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake? You may not have heard that it was discovered that that letter was faked, possibly by the Italian spooks, and palmed off on the British, after the French rejected the obvious forgery."



As you might guess, there was no mention of Yellow Cake in the British press at the time and even less detail spoken in parliament. Some time in the Bew Year, our erstwhile leader, Tony Blair, will face an 'Enquiry' conducted by someone senior. This senior someone has also said "no, we are NOT doing it behind closed doors", so it will be recorded and presumably televised (well, chosen bits, any way).

So Blair will find himself asked some very searching questions; not only by the Enquiry, but by the Press who are more than willing to give him a rough ride. And then there's the People. . . . . . .

A lot of folk reckon we got led into Iraq on the back of a set of lies & half-truths. The best cartoon of the day was GW leading his dog, which had the face of Tony Blair.

 

[DrHappy]

Remember when Dick & W were talking about how the British had "discovered" that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake? You may not have heard that it was discovered that that letter was faked, possibly by the Italian spooks, and palmed off on the British, after the French rejected the obvious forgery.

I have also read that the forged document wasn't needed to make the case that Iraq was seeking yellow cake, and that the Brits still stand behind this. Christopher Hitchens has an 2006 article at Slate "Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger."

Are there any updates to this?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I have also read that the forged document wasn't needed to make the case that Iraq was seeking yellow cake, and that the Brits still stand behind this. Christopher Hitchens has an 2006 article at Slate "Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger."

Are there any updates to this?

You can shop for Uranium Yellow Cake anywhere in the world. But you can't get it from a country that cannot either afford to buy it on the world (controlled) market or the technology and wherewithall to mine and refine it.

Niger just doesn't fit either case.

In the original story way back when, it was that Iran bought yellow cake from Niger. I didn't believe it then. I don't believe it now.

 

[JackLuis]

I have also read that the forged document wasn't needed to make the case that Iraq was seeking yellow cake, and that the Brits still stand behind this. Christopher Hitchens has an 2006 article at Slate "Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger."

Are there any updates to this?

Thanks for the link.

However, if the Iraqi Delegation had gotten a signed agreement and shipped a billion tons of oil to Niger, it would not have gotten them anything, because, as the French Intel knew both of the mines were idle and full of water and there was no way the Niger Government could afford to hire enough men with shovels and wheel borrows to dig the stuff anyway.

Joe Wilson was told by the Niger's that "NO they didn't ask about uranium. They knew that we would not and could not deal with them on it, because the French control the mines."

So were the Iraqi's just trying to get Niger to buck the sanctions as a wedge to get others to do the same? That sounds more likely than the Dr. Strangeloviean hysteria of Dick, the Gutless running dog of the Oil Industry.

One of the things that brought us the Iraq war was the fear, hyped by our "Fearful Leaders" that was unfounded in reality. If they had been the type of men who looked forward to the challenges of life and had not concentrated on the "Them's", that seek to take away the marbles, a million or more Iraqi's would have not died by our hand.

 

[JackLuis]

The issue is Where did this "Paper" come from?

So Dian Sawyer is waving this "Paper" in front of "Nutjob's" face,

Is it an Leak, in that I mean, a lie, put out by Who?

What is it based upon? I'm surprised at Diane Sawyer stooping to such a level, yet she may have been allowing The Bearded One" to refute the allegations, and therefore puncture the balloon of the right?

 

[JackLuis]

Ah the truthieness comes out!

"WASHINGTON, Dec 28 (IPS) - U.S. intelligence has concluded that the document published recently by the Times of London, which purportedly describes an Iranian plan to do experiments on what the newspaper described as a "neutron initiator" for an atomic weapon, is a fabrication, according to a former Central Intelligence Agency official."

The Times of London story published Dec. 14 did not identify the source of the document. But it quoted "an Asian intelligence source" - a term some news media have used for Israeli intelligence officials - as confirming that his government believes Iran was working on a neutron initiator as recently as 2007."

Now why would the Israeli's try to pin this on "Nutjob"? Why would the English fall for it? Is this a "Zionist Plot"? How can we trust our "allies" when they lie and cover for each other's lies?

I guess England is going to attack Iran, that might just take their whole army.

 

[JackLuis]

ANd we find, after actually reading the article, that :

"In 2005, Giraldi identified Michael Ledeen, the extreme right-wing former consultant to the National Security Council and the Pentagon, as an author of the fabricated letter purporting to show Iraqi interest in purchasing uranium from Niger. That letter was used by the George W. Bush administration to bolster its false case that Saddam Hussein had an active nuclear weapons programme.

Giraldi also identified officials in the "Office of Special Plans" who worked under Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith as having forged a letter purportedly written by Hussein's intelligence director, Tahir Jalail Habbush al-Tikriti, to Hussein himself referring to an Iraqi intelligence operation to arrange for an unidentified shipment from Niger."


Ah-ha! more Zionists in Neo-Con clothing. But I guess we will never see Ladeen, Feith and Wolfie, "up against the Wall". Nor Dick and George either.)