Presented the opportunity....

[Marquis]

I was just chipping in my two cents to an active discussion that is worth having.

Why not answer my questions then?

 

[clitoral]

This is the kind of truly bizarre and interesting opinion I was hoping to have access to.

I am curious about what you are saying here though. Are you male or female?

Are you hoping you will be raped one day, or hoping to rape someone?

Either one seems easily enough achieved, if you are a guy you could just pick a girl off the street and rape her, if you are a girl you could simply put yourself in an isolated and vulnerable position and I'm sure it would happen before long.

If you're struggling with the dichotomy between planning something sufficiently for it to happen and a fantasy that doesn't involve any planning, I think everyone on the board is familiar with that conflict.

I would like to see these comments fleshed out a bit more, there is some interesting stuff in here and I'm not judging you either way.

This is an interesting perspective from someone close to the topic at hand.

Oh I'm sorry. Did I leave you out?
I am a male. I can't say that I am really hoping to rape someone some day. But I can say that the thought of it gets me off like nothing else. It's not like rape is the only thing that gets me off though. Just, sometimes my devil horns start growing and I find myself in a mood for rape porn and nothing else will do. Reading stories from the non-consent/rape category of literotica will do, reading true crime websites about real rapes will do too, but sometimes I'm beyond that and I need video.
Maybe someone is wondering why fake stories on literotica will get me off, but fake rape porn won't, and I don't have an answer. I guess that when I see it, it has to be real. But when I read it, my mind makes it real enough in my head that it doesn't have any of the cues that fictitous rape porn has. I don't know for sure.
But there is definitely a hierarchy to what gets me off. At the lowest level are the fiction stories. When those just aren't what I'm in the mood for, true crime is the next level, and when that isn't what I want, I've got the pics and if that isn't enough, the vids.
To anyone who thinks that by watching the vids, I am hurting the victim, I would like to point out that I can walk up to the victim that was on a vid, shake her hand and talk to her and even become her friend, and none of it will hurt her. I can be cranking my shaft to the vid of her being raped 30 seconds before she enters my room, and as long as she doesn't know, she isn't hurt at all. Maybe your guilt makes you attach extra pain and grief to her life because of your having viewed the vid, but that is only perceived in your head, not in the victims, so it is a fallacy.
If the victim knew that I was watching it however, then I could see her being hurt and uncomfortable, humiliated, and unable to stand my presence. Just like someone else pointed out about staring at your neighbor through her window while she is naked. A perfect example. What she doesn't know doesn't hurt her. No harm, no foul.

 

[clitoral]

This has been a fascinating thread. The more I think about it, the more it disturbs me. The ethics of a situation don't depend on whether anyone else is aware of your actions.

Here's a parallel question. If your neighbor reacted with horror upon your unexpectedly finding them nude, would you leave when they asked you to? Most of us would. But if you were to peek out your window and see your neighbor in the nude, and you knew they'd be horrified by this remote observation, would you turn away? Harder, isn't it?

I think the morally consistent answer would be yes in both cases. In the first scene, there would be social as well as ethical reasons to leave. In the second scene, it would just be your own sense of decency, of the golden rule. I'd feel like I was violating my neighbor by continuing to watch, even though it could be argued my watching was causing no harm.

In the same way, there's a moral consistency between raping and watching a rape movie. I'd feel like I was violating the victim in the same way as watching my unknowing neighbor would be a violation. It's simply not decent to involve the unwilling in one's own sexual universe.

This is the perfect analogy that I alluded to. Thanks culloden.

 

[eastern sun]

To anyone who thinks that by watching the vids, I am hurting the victim, I would like to point out that I can walk up to the victim that was on a vid, shake her hand and talk to her and even become her friend, and none of it will hurt her. I can be cranking my shaft to the vid of her being raped 30 seconds before she enters my room, and as long as she doesn't know, she isn't hurt at all. Maybe your guilt makes you attach extra pain and grief to her life because of your having viewed the vid, but that is only perceived in your head, not in the victims, so it is a fallacy.

Do you think you would treat a woman differently if you had just watched her rape on video? Would you see something in her that you wouldn't otherwise see? Would it be appealing to you?

 

[clitoral]

I can't say that I would really be friends with such a girl. It was just a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point.
If I really did meet one of the girls from a real rape vid, I have to say that I would probably not have much to say to her. I wouldn't see her as attractive, I would see her as worn out, already broken, used up, damaged goods, and who knows what the hell kind of crotch rot she's got. So definitely no, it would not be appealing to me.
Maybe she could do or say something that would endear her to me as a friend if she saved my life or something. But beyond that, I would probably just avoid making contact.

 

[Netzach]

Maybe she could do or say something that would endear her to me as a friend if she saved my life or something .

Get this guy a nobel prize.

 

[unregistered]

 

[00Syd]

What an awesome thread. Two thumbs up.

 

[minx1]

Oh, I see.

Would you perhaps do me the courtesy of shutting the fuck up in my thread then?

I started this thread hoping to learn something about myself.

I think I might get more out of hearing from psychopaths than the same banal opinions endlessly belabored and equivocated across a philosophical spectrum as expansive and diverse as a West Virginian wedding.

No sorry I wont do that. If I have a valid opinion to express, I will express it, just as everyone else does here.


and like everyone else I will contribute in the forum, when and where I choose to.


And as for your comments to someone else about an immature response...I think you just gave a fine example of the pot calling the kettle.

 

[minx1]

I think the "me watching hurts no one argument" is BS too. Like you said, if only from a supply and demand POV.

Thanks Fury. Be careful though there is only one opinion allowed here and I hadnt realised that you could only frequent a thread at the invitation of the OP. lol

I'm glad someone else said it, so I didn't have to.

Say what you like, as you always do. It has no bearing on me

I suggest you do the same as I do when I see one of your posts. Dont read it.

 

[Marquis]

Get this guy a nobel prize.

LOL has become something of a superlative these days, but it would be a literal description of my reaction here.

Timing and diction were perfect, Netzach.

I can't say that I would really be friends with such a girl. It was just a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point.
If I really did meet one of the girls from a real rape vid, I have to say that I would probably not have much to say to her. I wouldn't see her as attractive, I would see her as worn out, already broken, used up, damaged goods, and who knows what the hell kind of crotch rot she's got. So definitely no, it would not be appealing to me.
Maybe she could do or say something that would endear her to me as a friend if she saved my life or something. But beyond that, I would probably just avoid making contact.

Dude, you are so far into the stratosphere of this shit that you make me feel like Dr. Drew or something. I can't even begin to tell you how much comfort I am able to draw from that.

So, tell me truthfully, if you could rape a girl and know for certain that you'd get away with it, would you do it?

 

[BiBunny]

Say what you like, as you always do. It has no bearing on me

I suggest you do the same as I do when I see one of your posts. Dont read it.

A.) Get your panties out of a wad.

B.) If you're trying to not read my posts, you're doing a piss-poor job of it.

Sorry, Marquis.

 

[minx1]

A.) Get your panties out of a wad.

B.) If you're trying to not read my posts, you're doing a piss-poor job of it.

Sorry, Marquis.

lmao.

a. I thought it was yours that were in one.

b. I don''t give a rats arse

 

[PertPerth]

I can't say that I would really be friends with such a girl. It was just a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point.
If I really did meet one of the girls from a real rape vid, I have to say that I would probably not have much to say to her. I wouldn't see her as attractive, I would see her as worn out, already broken, used up, damaged goods, and who knows what the hell kind of crotch rot she's got. So definitely no, it would not be appealing to me.
Maybe she could do or say something that would endear her to me as a friend if she saved my life or something. But beyond that, I would probably just avoid making contact.

I think this is the most disturbing thing I've read so far

 

[subish2009]

I also am finding this thread absolutely fascinating. My gut reaction, and I stated this much earlier (page one, I think), was that I would not watch the hypothetical video with knowledge of its authenticity.

It's an interesting balancing act we play though. In my case, I do have non-consent fantasies (I also have a background of childhood sexual assault and would rather not be accused of failing to understand from the POV of someone who has "been there"). I have masturbated several times to the rape scene in The Accused. I fantasize about completely losing control. And I know for damn sure I'm not alone in this fantasy. So, why is it so hard to understand that someone is fantasizing the other role in this scenario?? Do I want to be raped? NO. But that doesn't stop the fantasy. I'm not labeled psychotic, so why should the person on the other end of the fantasy be labeled so? He's not a rapist, but he gets off on the idea. Okay. So do I.

I want to thank Clitoral for offering his opinions so completely. It is nice to hear the other POV.

I still wouldn't watch the real vid. I like the fake stuff.

Yeah, but the difference here is that you seem to have a clear understanding that rape is WRONG. Real rape, not fantasy rape. I'd bet a huge majority of posters on this thread have rape fantasies, but most of us, like you, understand, from either end of that dynamic, why it's not smart, ethical, humane, or responsible to make that fantasy a literal reality. That's why we have the term consensual non-consent. Most of us don't want to be involved in pain that the other party didn't willingly sign up for, at least to some degree.

Clitoral doesn't seem to care about any of that. He indicates understanding of it, at least to some degree, but doesn't care. That's why so many of us are so disturbed.

I'll be interested in his answer as to whether he would rape a girl if he knew he wouldn't get caught. I think that's an excellent question and the answer will clarify a lot of the ambiguity here. If he says yes, to me that reveals sociopathic tendencies and I'll be done with this thread. If he says no, well...that requires further thought.

 

[androgEros]

So, tell me truthfully, if you could rape a girl and know for certain that you'd get away with it, would you do it?

You have yet, in this thread, to state whether you would
A. watch a video of a real rape, knowing before hand that it is a real rape
B. rape someone if you knew you could get away with it

curiosity

 

[culloden]

This is the perfect analogy that I alluded to. Thanks culloden.

I think you missed my point, although in re-reading my post I can see that I didn't phrase it well. I don't think "no harm, no foul." I think that watching a rape video would be violating the victim, even if they never knew you watched. It's not a question of whether you'd actually harm her - It's a question of the morality of taking pleasure from the pain of another (Kind of an odd point on a BDSM forum, but it's all about consent).

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think you missed my point, although in re-reading my post I can see that I didn't phrase it well. I don't think "no harm, no foul." I think that watching a rape video would be violating the victim, even if they never knew you watched. It's not a question of whether you'd actually harm her - It's a question of the morality of taking pleasure from the pain of another (Kind of an odd point on a BDSM forum, but it's all about consent).

it is watching the genuine pain and suffering of another which would give me a twisted pleasure...not because i'm a sadist, quite the contrary...because i would place myself in the victim's place and identify with their hopeless cruel lot in life. that is why i would (and perhaps already have) watch a film of an actual rape. i do not understand "consensual non consent," fun and games, play or "scenes." for this reason i do not identify with much of the bdsm community.

clitoral seems to be on some strange other level, in that he does not either identify or empathize with the victim whatsoever, and in fact would be repulsed by a woman who had been raped. that is a far more dangerous mindset than simply being aroused by seeing a rape.

 

[jenniferbaby]

it is watching the genuine pain and suffering of another which would give me a twisted pleasure...not because i'm a sadist, quite the contrary...because i would place myself in the victim's place and identify with their hopeless cruel lot in life. that is why i would (and perhaps already have) watch a film of an actual rape.

This makes a lot of sense and I appreciate seeing this viewpoint.

However, I believe this thread is bad for my health and I will quietly take my leave.

 

[Belle966]

I can't say that I would really be friends with such a girl. It was just a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point.
If I really did meet one of the girls from a real rape vid, I have to say that I would probably not have much to say to her. I wouldn't see her as attractive, I would see her as worn out, already broken, used up, damaged goods, and who knows what the hell kind of crotch rot she's got. So definitely no, it would not be appealing to me.
Maybe she could do or say something that would endear her to me as a friend if she saved my life or something. But beyond that, I would probably just avoid making contact.

I agreed with everything you said until now... but this is just terrible.

 

[Netzach]

it is watching the genuine pain and suffering of another which would give me a twisted pleasure...not because i'm a sadist, quite the contrary...because i would place myself in the victim's place and identify with their hopeless cruel lot in life. that is why i would (and perhaps already have) watch a film of an actual rape. i do not understand "consensual non consent," fun and games, play or "scenes." for this reason i do not identify with much of the bdsm community.

clitoral seems to be on some strange other level, in that he does not either identify or empathize with the victim whatsoever, and in fact would be repulsed by a woman who had been raped. that is a far more dangerous mindset than simply being aroused by seeing a rape.

Which is why I can't fathom why someone who clocks in where you do gets *so much shit* but the actual sociopathic shark jump into the mentality that lines raped women up and shoots them into a ditch in wartime gets lumped in with your response, the mentality that reduces human beings to mental fuckproperty and all it needs is an opportunity.

I have a highly developed sense of schadenfreude - people are CONSTANTLY taking pleasure in the misfortunes of others and going back and forth between objectifying and dealing with one another. My hunch about someone who expresses this level of dehumanizing revulsion with women who have been sexually attacked is that they 1. have many many volumes of issues or 2. think they don't actually know any women who have been abused as the homophobe "has never met a gay person."

This is why I still nurse Pulp Fiction esque fantasies. I'm having a few now, let me go rub one out.

 

[culloden]

Anyone who can use schadenfreude in a sentence has officially impressed me.

 

[clitoral]

LOL has become something of a superlative these days, but it would be a literal description of my reaction here.

Timing and diction were perfect, Netzach.



Dude, you are so far into the stratosphere of this shit that you make me feel like Dr. Drew or something. I can't even begin to tell you how much comfort I am able to draw from that.

So, tell me truthfully, if you could rape a girl and know for certain that you'd get away with it, would you do it?

Seriously, what's the alternative? Am I supposed to look at such a girl and be attracted to her because she was raped? Am I supposed to owe her anything? Am I supposed to fall to my knees and say "Oh I'm so sorry for what happened to you!" She probably doesn't want anyone who knows to make a scene like that. She probably doesn't want to know me (and if she knew that I'd seen the vid, she REALLY wouldn't want to know me), so the best thing I can do for her sake is to just avoid contact.
And I have to point out that no, I don't really know any of the girls in any of the vids that I have. It was just a hypothetical from the beginning. So Netzach's analysis was spot on.
Someone asked if I would rape a girl if I had the opportunity. Like anything in life, we don't really know until we are faced with the opportunity. I might like to think that I would, but in reality, I am a pussy who wouldn't be able to hurt the girl's feelings when instead I would try to be such a nice guy that she would like me and maybe possibly I might get lucky to have her acknowledge me for half a second. In such an instance I would probably go home and masturbate for the next 3 days while thinking about what I coulda would shoulda but didn't do to her. Who knows? I certainly don't and won't pretend to.

 

[clitoral]

it is watching the genuine pain and suffering of another which would give me a twisted pleasure...not because i'm a sadist, quite the contrary...because i would place myself in the victim's place and identify with their hopeless cruel lot in life. that is why i would (and perhaps already have) watch a film of an actual rape. i do not understand "consensual non consent," fun and games, play or "scenes." for this reason i do not identify with much of the bdsm community.

clitoral seems to be on some strange other level, in that he does not either identify or empathize with the victim whatsoever, and in fact would be repulsed by a woman who had been raped. that is a far more dangerous mindset than simply being aroused by seeing a rape.

In fact, I can and do empathize with both parties, the victim and the rapist. Just like you said, I identify with the victim, feeling born into a caste that is just destined for a shitty, hopeless, cruel life. I was born a loser and will die a loser. No woman will ever think that I am hot. No man will ever think I look tough enough not to push around. From my fat freckled face to my husky (let's face it, FAT) body, no woman that I find sexually attractive will ever want to fuck me. I am destined to only fuck women that are about as attractive to me as I am to most women.... FML. I have a shitty job, and a shitty life and more of the same ahead of me. Every day I wake up and feel hopeless and I have and adversarial relationship with Fate, Luck, Life, whatever the fuck it is that deal the cards we play with. Just like that rape victim. I can certainly identify with them.
I can also identify with the rapist. I can understand and identify with seeing such a girl that you want so bad and know you don't stand a chance and wanting her bad enough to just reach out and take her and not give her a chance to deny you. I understand the frustration that leads to finally doing something like that. I understand what it's like when you finally do have someone under your control and you just go off on them, taking out your pent up frustration on them because they have to deal with you because you have power over them. Did you ever go off on a waitress because they screwed up your order so you give them the "How hard is your job? How hard is it to take a fucking order?" speech? Yeah, that feeling. I can identify with that feeling because I can admit to having given that speech a few times, more out of frustration with my life than because the food sucked. It's that kind of sadistic streak that I feel when I fantasize about rape. At first I identify with the victim becaus I feel like a victim of life, but then I move to the guy who is taking control and getting what he wants. It's my way of fantasizing about taking control of my life, fulfilling my wants and needs, including my sexual desires instead of being doomed to only fucking the frumpy girls that no guy with a choice would ever fuck.
Hope that answers a few questions and "fleshes" things out enough for you.

 

[Adakgirl]

I knew this stuff about you before your 3nd post in this thread. You didn't even have to spell it out, I was about to do it for you and I would have been right on the money to....
You say that you understand so many things about the act of rape, clitoral, the mindset, self-justification, reasoning behind the act of rape, the feelings of the victim.

You understand this, you empathize with that, you know this that and the other thing. When in all actuality, you can't possibly know or understand or any of these things. You don't understand shit.
Victim of life you say?
You are a victim, but not a victim of life. You are a victim of your own choices, your own self-pity and self-loathing. Everything that you are, everything about you that makes you emphasize with men who rape, is of your own making.
Your justifications do not arise out of your life circumstances but are made up by you and believed in as fact in your own mind because it's just too hard for you to put any effort towards thinking of yourself in a different light. In order to improve yourself to make yourself more physically appealing and to educate yourself further to make your self more mentality appealing. Much easier for you say you understand what causes men to rape women who they would never have a chance to fuck under normal circumstances.

Smelly bullshit and shitty excuses for continuing to lead a pitiful victimized life.
It just won't fly.

There are hundreds of thousands of unattractive men, ugly, even fat and ugly men in this world who have beautiful, hot, women who'd do just about anything just to get the chance to fuck them silly. You see them all the time. Walking around with gorgeous women. No need to rape women. There is no validity in what you say.
Those are men who have the balls to make something out of themselves regardless of their looks. You, clitoral don't have any balls at all.