Rookie looking for feedback please

[plenty75]

Rising up from the burning cigarette
Up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
Reeling, writhing, rhythmic
Without control
Without restraint
Shifty, free thinking, all encompassing
Death creeping, light diminishing
Life returns with a simple breath
A hate love relationship
Between fire and air

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I think the imagery is engaging, particularly when seen from the vantage of the last line. I personally dislike the style of starting every line with a capital letter in combination with open punctuation. I'd slim some of the diction, too, probably. Otherwise, great start, there, Plenty.

 

[plenty75]

Seek my love, I feel her near
Like wind, water, my mind clear
Save a breath for me
Save a kiss for me
Save a smile for me
The way to my heart
Resist at the start
Simplify
Understand
Be silent
Be Loud
Be you
Be with me

 

[butters]

Rising up from the burning cigarette
Up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
Reeling, writhing, rhythmic
Without control
Without restraint
Shifty, free thinking, all encompassing
Death creeping, light diminishing
Life returns with a simple breath
A hate love relationship
Between fire and air

something good going on here.

suggestions:

use rise up as your title
lose most your gerunds
lose rhythmic
you don't need to explain it so much with the last two lines


it'd look a whole lot cleaner to my eyes like this:

Rise up

from the burning cigarette
up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
reel, writhe
without control
without restraint
sly Death

Life returns with a simple breath
a hate love relationship



btw: sometimes it's considered more polite to visit other writers' work and leave comment for them first before jumping in feet first and requesting feedback on your own. Or at least reciprocate by offering your thoughts to other posters here (goes for most writing forums). It promotes movement and development on a forum, introduces yourself to more people and is likely to gain you more feedback on your own material.

welcome to the boards

 

[lorencino]

Yeah!

something good going on here.

suggestions:

use rising up as your title
lose most your gerunds
lose rhythmic
you don't need to explain it so much with the last two lines


it'd look a whole lot cleaner to my eyes like this:

Rising up

from the burning cigarette
Up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
Reels, writhes
Without control
Without restraint
Sly Death

Life returns with a simple breath
A hate love relationship


btw: sometimes it's considered more polite to visit other writers' work and leave comment for them first before jumping in feet first and requesting feedback on your own. Or at least reciprocate by offering your thoughts to other posters here (goes for most writing forums). It promotes movement and development on a forum, introduces yourself to more people and is likely to gain you more feedback on your own material.

welcome to the boards

I think these are good suggestions, about the poem and about good community relations.

You know you are getting old when you can't remember what the hell "gerunds" are in spite of having studied Latin and speaking three other languages, all of which have copious gerunds, I'm sure. And how do you tell the difference beween a gerund and a participle. At one stage I realized (during my extended aging process) that I was having a lot more difficulty following Italian grammar than Latin grammar and now I can't even understand what English grammarians are winding on about. When we get to deciding whether present participles are in the progressive or continuous aspect, I'm quite content to become oblivious to the rules of grammar. On the other hand, there could be a good poem struggling to get out of this grammatical morass.

 

[butters]

I think these are good suggestions, about the poem and about good community relations.

You know you are getting old when you can't remember what the hell "gerunds" are in spite of having studied Latin and speaking three other languages, all of which have copious gerunds, I'm sure. And how do you tell the difference between a gerund and a participle. At one stage I realized (during my extended aging process) that I was having a lot more difficulty following Italian grammar than Latin grammar and now I can't even understand what English grammarians are winding on about. When we get to deciding whether present participles are in the progressive or continuous aspect, I'm quite content to become oblivious to the rules of grammar. On the other hand, there could be a good poem struggling to get out of this grammatical morass.

glad you asked that question. made me go look it up myself to be sure. Mostly it's about the 'ings'' but below are the best explanations I found:

"Because they are nounlike, we can think of gerunds as names. But rather than naming persons, places, things, events, and the like, as nouns generally do, gerunds, because they are verbs in form, name activities or behaviors or states of mind or states of being."

(Martha Kolln and Robert Funk, Understanding English Grammar, 1998)


What's the difference between a Gerund and a Participle?

A Gerund is a verb form used as a noun whilst a Participle is a verb form used as an adjective.

Gerund

: a verbal noun in Latin that expresses generalized or uncompleted action

: any of several linguistic forms analogous to the Latin gerund in languages other than Latin; especially : the English verbal noun in -ing that has the function of a substantive and at the same time shows the verbal features of tense, voice, and capacity to take adverbial qualifiers and to govern objects

: A Gerund is a verb and noun combined. eg: "I think of retiring soon from business."

Retiring is a verb, being part of the verb retire. It is also a noun, because it is object to the preposition 'of.

Participle

: a word having the characteristics of both verb and adjective; especially : an English verbal form that has the function of an adjective and at the same time shows such verbal features as tense and voice and capacity to take an object

: A Participle is a verb and adjective combined. eg: "A retired officer lives next door." or "She was killed by a falling tile."

Retired is a verb, being part of the verb to retire. It is also an adjective, because it qualifies the noun 'officer'. Falling is a verb, since it is part of the verb to fall, but it is also an adjective in that it qualifies the noun 'tile'. Hence a participle may be called a verbal adjective.




some examples to make things a little clearer for those not too sure:

"I like swimming" uses a gerund, while "I was swimming yesterday" uses a participle.

"I disapprove of your doing drugs." gerund

Fishing is fun = gerund
Hiking is difficult = gerund
That is ballet dancing = gerund

 

[arielsgoddess]

You know, sometimes it's nice to talk to a real person...

Who will say, 'I really feel that: the dirty motel room, the almost hopeless hope of the innercity and the shred of intimacy in that moment'. Commentary does not always translate into 'please edit'--sometimes it simply means: 'Human interaction, please'. I see alot of morbidity in the boards, and today in particular there are swansongs being sung for the lack of comraderie and waning creativity around here. I believe that this is partly because most people have forgotten that we are here to inspire each other, not criticize. True inspiration is an organic process based on that almost divine interaction between muse and artist. If there is no spark of passion, who gives a damn how technically correct or pretty the words of the literally meaningless piece. When our passion is cultivated, we are possessed as artists to find that more powerful or tangible color or word, to make our creations, the embodiments of our passions, come alive. Some of us can outsex and outwrite the greats when we want to, but if we are uninspired, why bother?

I would rather share in even the most dismal painting of dirty passion, because atleast it is real. I would rather deal with simplistic dialogue that I can relate to from simpler times of pure thoughts and emotions, then the technical that echoes nothing.

Welcome, Plenty--it's good to see more poets and lovers joining our circle. I especially like your first poem, it evokes a noir-type feeling for me. Hope to see alot more of your work here. Best of everything to you, Ariel

 

[butters]

Who will say, 'I really feel that: the dirty motel room, the almost hopeless hope of the innercity and the shred of intimacy in that moment'. Commentary does not always translate into 'please edit'--sometimes it simply means: 'Human interaction, please'. I see alot of morbidity in the boards, and today in particular there are swansongs being sung for the lack of comraderie and waning creativity around here. I believe that this is partly because most people have forgotten that we are here to inspire each other, not criticize. True inspiration is an organic process based on that almost divine interaction between muse and artist. If there is no spark of passion, who gives a damn how technically correct or pretty the words of the literally meaningless piece. When our passion is cultivated, we are possessed as artists to find that more powerful or tangible color or word, to make our creations, the embodiments of our passions, come alive. Some of us can outsex and outwrite the greats when we want to, but if we are uninspired, why bother?

I would rather share in even the most dismal painting of dirty passion, because at least it is real. I would rather deal with simplistic dialogue that I can relate to from simpler times of pure thoughts and emotions, then the technical that echoes nothing.

Welcome, Plenty--it's good to see more poets and lovers joining our circle. I especially like your first poem, it evokes a noir-type feeling for me. Hope to see alot more of your work here. Best of everything to you, Ariel

feedback was requested and given. the nature of the feed back will, by necessity, vary from poster to poster.

Plenty 75, when a poet asks me for feedback I will give them what I feel about their piece. If what I feel is insufficiently moved to be waxing lyrical about how it's moved me, then I will offer what I can to help a writer improve their work. All my suggestions are merely that and may or may not help you find ways to edit and improve your work in a way you see as beneficial to its efficacy as a poem. Simply another pair of eyes seeing what your poem inspires me to see. If you are offended by my 'rewrite', which was given only as an example of how I feel you could make technical improvements, then I apologise. It was my intention to post constructively, not to cause any offense. Plenty of sites will simply pat you on your back - I believe I am able to offer balanced critique with an eye to improvement. I wish more people would take the time to do the same with my own work. My other suggestions were a basic introduction to poetry-forum etiquette, not just here but across the internet. Perhaps you are already familiar with this, but please bear in mind there may well be other new writers reading it to and can possibly use it to their advantage.

If a you are looking for is a simple 'this is great, carry on writing' then there will be others here and across the net happy to fulfil that role. It was certainly never my intent to deter you from writing at all.

 

[arielsgoddess]

Not criticizing you, CB:

I was referring to posts and private conversations recently by a number of people about the lack--atleast partial--of interaction here anymore. It is especially noted, in painful or sad ways, by the longer members of the forum.

I am not one of the technical reviewers, and I have seen that you are; and I have also seen you say before that is the type of feedback you are seeking. Which is the only reason that I do not give feedback on your pieces, even when I particularly like a phrase, etc that you use.

When I was a newbie myself--on the other side of the coin from the 'longtimers'--I was publishing again for the first time in a long time for me, following a period of isolation from other readers/writers due to my lifestyle. What I needed was both technical editors and human feedback, and I was very fortunate to come onto the forum at a time when I found both in one amazing individual, who was also a published author/poet.

I was just expressing my dismay over the dwindling interactions here--which I hear voiced about with disappointment from almost everyone that posts here or that I talk to as friends or fellow professionals. Even the most prominent and respected people that were well established on forum when I joined, now seem to be almost as rare in receiving feedback as the first-timers.

You obviously have alot of technical expertise, and I am not ignorant of the value of that. I would just like to see more of a social atmosphere as well, as a writers' community, to balance that. So that not only are we better writers from the technical-analytic point of view, but also in the passion/inspiration/human enrichment, which gives our work much more depth and appeal.

It would be fabulous if many people were to offer their contributions of either type of feedback to every piece or thread posted. Surely we would all be better for it

 

[butters]

I was referring to posts and private conversations recently by a number of people about the lack--atleast partial--of interaction here anymore. It is especially noted, in painful or sad ways, by the longer members of the forum.

I am not one of the technical reviewers, and I have seen that you are; and I have also seen you say before that is the type of feedback you are seeking. Which is the only reason that I do not give feedback on your pieces, even when I particularly like a phrase, etc that you use.

When I was a newbie myself--on the other side of the coin from the 'longtimers'--I was publishing again for the first time in a long time for me, following a period of isolation from other readers/writers due to my lifestyle. What I needed was both technical editors and human feedback, and I was very fortunate to come onto the forum at a time when I found both in one amazing individual, who was also a published author/poet.

I was just expressing my dismay over the dwindling interactions here--which I hear voiced about with disappointment from almost everyone that posts here or that I talk to as friends or fellow professionals. Even the most prominent and respected people that were well established on forum when I joined, now seem to be almost as rare in receiving feedback as the first-timers.

You obviously have alot of technical expertise, and I am not ignorant of the value of that. I would just like to see more of a social atmosphere as well, as a writers' community, to balance that. So that not only are we better writers from the technical-analytic point of view, but also in the passion/inspiration/human enrichment, which gives our work much more depth and appeal.

It would be fabulous if many people were to offer their contributions of either type of feedback to every piece or thread posted. Surely we would all be better for it

you are absolutely right, arielsgoddess, about feedback needing to come from all quarters. Looking back at how I posted I can see it may have appeared brusque - quite a departure from my standard sort of responses to newbies work. Strengths need pointing out as much as weaknesses, though the more adept writer could probably use more of the tech side of things to improve the skills they already have.This goes for me as much as anyone else;above all, though, I love to hear if something I write has moved another person or -best of all - made them take time to consider things they might never have bothered before in any detail. Poetry IS about the visceral reaction we can inspire in another person; technicalities can be useful tools to gain that reaction.

Having run my own writing site, done a considerable amount of editing for other writers and moderating on more sites, I understand how a forum can fail to deliver any satisfaction when feedback dies down to dribs and drabs and it becomes a matter of posting into a void. Once that happens, all too often the poets move on to a different site since feedback's the lifeblood for most of us. By the same token, a site that consistently lauds poor poetry with no constructive critique is guilty of harming the art too. It gives writers a false sense of how they perform as poets which is a disservice and leads to stagnation of talent.

As with most things in life, balance is everything!

 

[bflagsst]

Rising up from the burning cigarette
Up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
Reeling, writhing, rhythmic
Without control
Without restraint
Shifty, free thinking, all encompassing
Death creeping, light diminishing
Life returns with a simple breath
A hate love relationship
Between fire and air

When writing this poem I imagine you focused on the sounds of the words. But as a reader I'm looking for the content, the voice of the poet. I don't follow the story.

 

[arielsgoddess]

Innercity

Stumbling into your room, dimly lit
Broken window with its narrow view
Of the city that soils itself with every breath
We take hope through our brief encounter

Flashes of light and death flicker for us
This movie we are playing out small escape
Desperate grasping with every inch of our bodies
Leaving us only with the smog of our efforts

Clinging to our skin and your dismal sheets
Wordlessly you lead me to a tinier bathroom
Only enough hot water for a shared shower
Is all that you can say to me, your lover

Eyes avoiding mine embarrass you further
Sure I will leave with the little you have to offer
We attempt to get clean, crowded under trickling water
You gasp as it turns to rusty rivulets down my breasts

Elements of your hated city invading even this
My hand turns your angry, hurt eyes to mine as my
Body presses wild, ruddy patterns into your flesh
Tongue licking the taste of pavement from your neck

Your hands lock around my hips, lifting, pressing me
Into the cracked wall behind us and entering me, close-eyed
Driving away the sounds of the cars, drowning the sirens outside
Pulling tightly as I can, finally you look into my eyes, and come inside me

Suddenly unafraid, you say you love me and believe my answer
As we shudder together and slide down into the tub overflowing
With us and the water which never goes down the clogged drain
The stream now ice-cold but unrusty, nakedly we marvel, finally clean

 

[poetedge5455]

Rising up from the burning cigarette
Up, up out the chimney
the smoke stack
the hash pipe
the exhaust pipe
Reeling, writhing, rhythmic
Without control
Without restraint
Shifty, free thinking, all encompassing
Death creeping, light diminishing
Life returns with a simple breath
A hate love relationship
Between fire and air

Hi. Welcome to the board. I really like this. Brief, but potent. Technically critique-ing, I would of course lose the word 'up' because it is redundant. How else can you rise? Lol. And it isn't needed rhythmically.

At first I had an objection to 'exhaust pipe', but I don't think it is too bad and what it adds to the imagery is probably equal to what it detracts sound-wise. You use many soft sounds, and pipe is a little jarring. I

disagree about the gerunds (ings). They need to be there to have the smoke moving in the present. For me, the whole lure is the trailing smoke linking the noir metaphors. When it is writhing and creeping, it seems to still be doing it infinitely. If it writhes and creeps, it seems to do those things ONCE, and stop. The ings are much more evocative of smoke (cigs especially).

I WOULD revisit 'free thinking' both the hard k and the vague term detract from the dream.

My official disclaimer here. I only comment on poems I feel have something. I don't post on poems I think are hopeless just to point out what is wrong. Pedantic people irritate me to no end, lol. So anything above I pointed out is meant to be taken as 'I really like this, but maybe it could improve with these changes.' I do feel you have a good sense of atmosphere and punch. I look forward to more.

 

[butters]

hey plenty that's another thing you'll discover when asking for feedback - sometimes the responses are conflicting. This doesn't make any individual right or wrong, but shows how we see things in different ways. One suggestion: never make a change unless it feels right to you or you will be in danger of losing any sense of connection with your own writing and it will become a mere academic exercise instead of the vital thing poetry ought to be. imo. lol

we all make errors of judgement and, with time, you'll get to trust your own. I would assume you aren't new to writing, though; this work seems way too good for a first poem

 

[Epmd607]

Even if someone is pedantic and wants to point out what's wrong because they're so superior...you're asking for feedback and want to improve as a writer. So what's the problem? If someone points out something that's not so hot about a poem you can learn from it, regardless of their intentions in pointing it out.

 

[plenty75]

Thank you

Since silent gratitude isn't much use to anyone, I wanted to say thank you to all who replied.

 

[arielsgoddess]

Consolation Prize

Strangers soothe a sinful soul
Their kisses cover wounds
Indifferent to our bleeding
Uncaring that their lips are dirty

We soak this half-love in
Morality replaced by reality
Need that will break us open
Raw and aching for the world

Until the scars have calloused
Hidden beneath more layers is
Where innocence once blossomed
Now only thorns reach that deep

But kisses of strangers remain new
Whether burning or cooling our skin
Hands that have not yet been cruel
Words still sweetly asking to come in