Election Night! "Cry Havoc, Let Loose...

[amicus]

...the Pundits of Politics!

The State of Virginia gives a 'triple sweep' to Republicans, electing a Governor, a Lt. Governor and the State Attorney's General in one swell foop!

They say New Jersey and New York are too close to call and I am going to watch NCIS in less than an hour, so they are on their own.

Ain't Politics just dadgummed great?!

Amicus

 

[TE999]

It would seem that the two party system is alive and well. Outcomes such as this remind me that political pundits who are always predicting this or that might as well be casting runes or studying the entrails of a sheep for all their accuracy.

American voters are an unpredictable bunch.

 

[R. Richard]

The best known form is, 'Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.' From Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, 1601.

 

[Boxlicker101]

...the Pundits of Politics!

The State of Virginia gives a 'triple sweep' to Republicans, electing a Governor, a Lt. Governor and the State Attorney's General in one swell foop!

They say New Jersey and New York are too close to call and I am going to watch NCIS in less than an hour, so they are on their own.

Ain't Politics just dadgummed great?!

Amicus

It's okay as a spectator sport. It sometimes reminds me of professional rassling. Not so much what happens in the ring, but the posturing outside of it.

 

[amicus]

They are that indeed TE...the New Jersey Governor Elect is now a Republican, imagine that, outspent 30 million to 11 million, five visits by Obama and even Biden showed his mug...they still lost....even Democrat pundits are saying it has been a BAAAAD night for Democrats.

I can live with that.

ami

 

[Boxlicker101]

It would seem that the two party system is alive and well. Outcomes such as this remind me that political pundits who are always predicting this or that might as well be casting runes or studying the entrails of a sheep for all their accuracy.

American voters are an unpredictable bunch.

I was watching Karl Rove tonight, and even somebody as sharp as he is seems to think that party affiliation means more than anything.

For instance, he was marveling over how Obama carried Virginia in 2008 by a substantial margin, but the Dem candidate lost in a landslide today.

 

[amicus]

The best known form is, 'Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.' From Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, 1601.

~~~

Y'know, R.Richard, desiring to quote accurately, I searched and found, 'let loose', but I like 'slip' much better but it is in the title of the thread and I be not able to change it.

thank you...I recall that from "The Postman" oops, not politically correct, The Postperson...heh...

amicus

 

[Boxlicker101]

~~~

Y'know, R.Richard, desiring to quote accurately, I searched and found, 'let loose', but I like 'slip' much better but it is in the title of the thread and I be not able to change it.

thank you...I recall that from "The Postman" oops, not politically correct, The Postperson...heh...

amicus

The mail carrier.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

~~~

Y'know, R.Richard, desiring to quote accurately, I searched and found, 'let loose', but I like 'slip' much better but it is in the title of the thread and I be not able to change it.

thank you...I recall that from "The Postman" oops, not politically correct, The Postperson...heh...

amicus

And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.


Julius Caesar Act 3, scene 1, 270–275

Checked my complete works too. It's 'slip'.

Don't think it's un-PC to quote a movie title. He was a man after all.

 

[amicus]

]And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.


Julius Caesar Act 3, scene 1, 270–275

Checked my complete works too. It's 'slip'.

Don't think it's un-PC to quote a movie title. He was a man after all[/I].

~~~

Thank you Bianca, I will rub my own nose in my misquote with this small rationalization:

let loose the dogs of war quote (keywords search)

http://quotationsbook.com/quote/41097/

http://www.quotecosmos.com/quotes/41097/view

So...memory was faulty, but should have been close enough had I gone to the source instead of trusting quotations.

Still...smiles...a fair comparison with contemporary politics, ya think? The full quote, I mean, as you provided...

ami

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

~~~

Thank you Bianca, I will rub my own nose in my misquote with this small rationalization:

let loose the dogs of war quote (keywords search)

http://quotationsbook.com/quote/41097/

http://www.quotecosmos.com/quotes/41097/view

So...memory was faulty, but should have been close enough had I gone to the source instead of trusting quotations.

Still...smiles...a fair comparison with contemporary politics, ya think? The full quote, I mean, as you provided...

ami

Don't worry about it. I've heard it misquoted before, but wanted to double check because I make mistakes too. Usually not with Shakespeare, but anything can happen

Actually found something interesting when I was looking up references to the misquote. Apparently Winston Churchill made the mistake. Many famous politicians did.

And ITA. Interpreting the statement as originally meant by Shakespeare, which I found a really cool reference for that says it better than I ever could...

The Black Book of the Admiralty of 1385 is a collection of laws, in French and Latin, relating to the English Navy. In the 'Ordinances of War of Richard II' in that book we find:

"Item, qe nul soit si hardy de crier havok sur peine davoir la test coupe."
I text in English that comes nearer to defining the term is Grose's History of the English Army, circa 1525:

"Likewise be all manner of beasts, when they be brought into the field and cried havoke, then every man to take his part."

You could very well compare it to certain forms of modern polics.

 

[TE999]

Looks like Ol' Virginny's in the Republican column as well.

"Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant."


Also, the Gay Marriage vote in Maine is too close to call.

 

[amicus]

Wow, the wonder of this forum...a little more English History and an up date on an election!

Thank you both...a pleasure...

ami...

 

[Boxlicker101]

Here's an update on the gay marriage referendum. It seems to be winning by about the same margin as Prop. 8 won last year. It's still too close to call.

 

[TE999]

The Democrat candidate beat the Conservative in NY. The Democrat is middle-Right and will prolly be a 'Blue Dog'. The Republican candidate who bailed was a RINO, so no loss there.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Not that it will make much of a difference. Both parties have screwed this country up and must someday be held to account for it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Herer is the latest on the gay marriage referendum. It looks as if it has passed, and SS marriages are illegal in another state, but there are some glimmers of hope.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091104/ap_on_el_st_lo/us_gay_marriage_maine

It's certainly not a landslide, and SS marriage will eventually be as legal as mixed race marriages are now.

 

[amicus]

If, perchance, you have me on ignore...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/maine-voters-repeal-gay-marriage-law/article1350447/

Maine voters repealed the same sex marriage law.

Amicus

 

[sr71plt]

The Virginia gubernatorial election in itself isn't a gauge on the Obama administration. This one was sealed back when Deeds took the Democratic primary (handled by popular vote not by party selection). He's from rural Virginia, when the balance in the state has turned urban, had lost a previous election to the same candidate, stutters a bit, and isn't as pretty as the Republican is. The pundits called this one months ago.

That said, I don't doubt the Obama administration has caused a Republican slide at the polls. It isn't getting off the dime in just giving up on trying to reach agreements with the Republicans and just getting ahead with getting ahead in spite of the Republicans' heel digging.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Virginia gubernatorial election in itself isn't a gauge on the Obama administration. This one was sealed back when Deeds took the Democratic primary (handled by popular vote not by party selection). He's from rural Virginia, when the balance in the state has turned urban, had lost a previous election to the same candidate, stutters a bit, and isn't as pretty as the Republican is. The pundits called this one months ago.

That said, I don't doubt the Obama administration has caused a Republican slide at the polls. It isn't getting off the dime in just giving up on trying to reach agreements with the Republicans and just getting ahead with getting ahead in spite of the Republicans' heel digging.

Naah. Your team is in trouble.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The Virginia gubernatorial election in itself isn't a gauge on the Obama administration. This one was sealed back when Deeds took the Democratic primary (handled by popular vote not by party selection). He's from rural Virginia, when the balance in the state has turned urban, had lost a previous election to the same candidate, stutters a bit, and isn't as pretty as the Republican is. The pundits called this one months ago.

That said, I don't doubt the Obama administration has caused a Republican slide at the polls. It isn't getting off the dime in just giving up on trying to reach agreements with the Republicans and just getting ahead with getting ahead in spite of the Republicans' heel digging.

That may be true to some extent, but it does not explain the landslide in VA. It also does not explain the Dem loss in NJ, where Obama campaigned for the loser.

The Reps are working with the administration on some things, but they are fighting, along with some Dems who are known as "Blue Dogs," against some ideas they believe would be disasters.

You sound like some political pundits who foolishly believe that party loyalty trunps, or should trump, everything else.

 

[oggbashan]

We could do with more of this sort of politician:

Boris Johnson

A Mayor and a comedian, and now a rescuer of women in distress. What could more could you want?

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

We could do with more of this sort of politician:

Boris Johnson

A Mayor and a comedian, and now a rescuer of women in distress. What could more could you want?

Og

I agree, but what are oiks?

 

[oggbashan]

I agree, but what are oiks?

Lower class hooligans.

"An oik" is a word used by Eton-educated gentleman to describe those not as well-bred as the Etonians are...

Og

 

[sr71plt]

That may be true to some extent, but it does not explain the landslide in VA. It also does not explain the Dem loss in NJ, where Obama campaigned for the loser.

Sure it does, Box. The landslide in Virginia has been showing in the polls for three weeks. I, and many others, predicted it the night Deeds won the primary. The Democrats got caught off schedule. This was supposed to be the election for Emily Couric (yes, Katie's sister), but she died of pancreatic cancer, which threw the party off the rails. No surprise there--and the Republicans barely mentioned the Obama administration in their campaigning; they didn't have to. And the issues in NJ were more about corruption than anything else (I was in NJ for a week at the height of the campaigning, er mudslinging).

Obama campaigned more in Virginia for Deeds than he did in NJ, by the way.

I've already said that I thought there indeed was backlash vote because Obama hasn't been the instantaneous Messiah some of the unsophisticated voters expected.

Those two contests just weren't the simple referendum on national issues that some would like to make them. The Democrats took seats too, including in New York in a contest where everyone from Palin to Limbaugh showed up to try to bolster up a Republican incumbent who lost.

This election cycle was more on localized issues than on national ones.

Need to take a look at the elections in 2010 to be making the "death knell for Obama" noises--not that anyone is listening to those except the ones who hear what they want to hear.