I think most women are basically sluts.

[JMohegan]

My personal take is: genetics and social status/standing, with the percentage of each fluctuating with the economy and the evolution of Japanese society as well.

At first it was probably a genetic call: we are attracted to what is different as it makes for stronger off-springs.

Then it became that for many women, the "foreign husband", especially Western, was associated with a perceived better living standard, either because they were high level executive or because they would be given the chance to travel and live abroad. It also meant not having to bend to some of Japanese societies expectations (such as a typical male chauvinist husband).

Things have changed a lot thou in the 10+ year I've been here. High pay foreign exec have became fewer and far between (especially since last winter) and Japanese men have became much more "women friendly", helpful with typically considered woman chores in the household and they do not expect the wife to stay at home after marriage anymore.

Now to add in also :


Japanese men are now actually better if you are looking for a equal partner in marriage. And at the same time, the Foreign men are still hanging on the idea of Japanese women as "submissive sexual things".

And with the economic changes in the Foreigner community landscape, a consequence is that it has gotten much harder for your average Joe to hook up with a Japanese woman for fun, as they are now much more interested in stable income and marriage.

So yes, for the average Joe, many Japanese women turn out to be nothing like their ideal and everything like their worst nightmare. Still in a cute and sexy and apparently available packaging.



The question posed in those term is implying a moral judgment that express the bias of a Western approach.

Men having mistresses/girlfriends has always been a normal part of society. And, with the liberation of feminism, women having boyfriends or boy-toys as gotten common as well.

Marriage traditionally had little to do with love, and a lot to do with society rules and standing. A business partnership of sort.

In the old days, the men having one or more mistresses/girlfriends was also part of status (after all you had to be wealthy to be able to provide for them). Of course there was also a lot of emphasis in keeping the wife status intact, and as such, socially the wife had a much higher standing.

With increased contacts with the Western world and the much more taboo views on sex and the concept of "cheating", Japanese society adjusted and a lot of those values have now being incorporated, at least on a surface level.

Reality thou is still that a single woman might still not mind being the mistress/girlfriend of a wealthy men (and of course going up the ladder and marrying him), and a married woman with a often gone husband does not mind having a lover that spend some of her free time with her. Same for the men.

Some might be unhappy in their marriage, but for many it is just some external entertainment. And the most common rule and agreement is the "don't ask, don't tell" with the added rule for the men of "don't flaunt it and don't spend all the money on her".

Historical detail: divorce has been around for a long time. The husband would sign a "release" form stating that it was nobody's fault and that the woman could merry again. Or, if the husband would refuse to sign the form, the woman could sick refuge in a specific temple and upon paying for a 2 year stay, she would get to stay inside for two years, work in the temple, be protected from the husband and once the two years were up, she would be legally divorced and free to re-marry. Now, if the husband caught the woman "in flagrante", he was legally allowed to kill her. However the lover could pay the cheated husband a fixed amount (sorry cannot remember it), to pay for her life to he spared and he would then not feel dishonored and would not kill her.

Thank you for answering my questions. This is fascinating, and I appreciate the depth of the response.

 

[intothewoods]

Jesus Christ, Netzach. Where the fuck did that come from?

Is this first conversation we've had on the subject of feminism? I think not.

I blanched at it too, but I understand you've had a different experience. The militant feminist bitch has always been more myth than reality for me.

 

[JMohegan]

I blanched at it too, but I understand you've had a different experience. The militant feminist bitch has always been more myth than reality for me.

Different experiences, yes.

I appreciate your understanding.

 

[Homburg]

I blanched at it too, but I understand you've had a different experience. The militant feminist bitch has always been more myth than reality for me.

I can't think of a single militant feminist that I've met. Some female supremacists, and some militant lesbians, sure, but no screaming militant bitch feminists.

A couple of the militant lesbians I've known were truly cool people to hang out with too. Why they liked me I don't know. I became friends with one, no shit, by complimenting her taste in sidearms.

 

[graceanne]

I can't think of a single militant feminist that I've met. Some female supremacists, and some militant lesbians, sure, but no screaming militant bitch feminists.

That's cause I'm related to them all, and they're in the bay area.

 

[00Syd]

I've never met a militint bitch feminist, either, and neither have any of my girlfriends but all my girlfriends still claim to not be feminists, and hate feminism, because of them.

Quite a myth, eh?

 

[JMohegan]

I've never met a militint bitch feminist, either, and neither have any of my girlfriends but all my girlfriends still claim to not be feminists, and hate feminism, because of them.

Quite a myth, eh?

No, it's not a myth. It's a generational thing.

We've been through this before on the board. For anyone interested in the subject (and to refresh Netzach's memory): Here is the entire militant exchange.

 

[intothewoods]

I've never met a militint bitch feminist, either, and neither have any of my girlfriends but all my girlfriends still claim to not be feminists, and hate feminism, because of them.

Quite a myth, eh?

What you describe is apparently the norm in today's colleges. And now we have women who say I'm not a feminist (because feminist=manhater) but I believe in x, y and z (i.e., tenants of feminism). Hello, you're a feminist!

I can't think of a single militant feminist that I've met. Some female supremacists, and some militant lesbians, sure, but no screaming militant bitch feminists.

A couple of the militant lesbians I've known were truly cool people to hang out with too. Why they liked me I don't know. I became friends with one, no shit, by complimenting her taste in sidearms.

It's been a while since I've met either militant feminists or lesbians, but I think that's just my social circles. If I think back to college, I recall some lesbian seperatists and some militant feminists. But for every militant feminist there was a girl going to great lengths to deny that she was at all a feminist though she agreed with everything feminism stands for.

We've had this conversation before, and hey, I know "the feminist movement" has screwed itself over in many ways, but it's depressing to me that I hear a hell of a lot more these days about those crazy feminists and how terrible they are rather than anything from feminists themselves.

 

[intothewoods]

No, it's not a myth. It's a generational thing.

We've been through this before on the board. For anyone interested in the subject (and to refresh Netzach's memory): Here is the entire militant exchange.

I forgot about that particular exchange. Damn, do we all just say the same shit around here over and over again?

Or is that just me?

 

[minx1]

When one is acting "slutty" for their SO, and being called a "slut" by their SO, but only for and by him/her, then I don't think the slut label really applies. It strikes me as roleplaying as a slut without actually being one. Slut to me implies promiscuity, not sexuality.

As one who doesn't really do roleplaying, I was thinking more of sexual acts that push my own sexual boundaries....acts that I might perceive as slutty. But I accept that is my application of the word and not the common definition.

Although there is so much confusion around here about when 'true' definitions do and don't apply its no wonder a gal gets confused

agreed. what's a bit confusing to me is how you accept the standard definition of "slut," but not of "brat."

Yeah I find all this application of definitions confusing too

But anyway, it seems I am not a slut and not a brat.

and am cool with that outcome. I'll just pop over to the doormat thread and see if I can knock that one on the head too

 

[00Syd]

No, it's not a myth. It's a generational thing.

We've been through this before on the board. For anyone interested in the subject (and to refresh Netzach's memory): Here is the entire militant exchange.

Your right, its a generational thing. You actually met militant bitch feminists, but how prominent are militant, man-hating, feminists anymore? Not very? Not at all? The reason why women of my generation think that feminism=militant bitch despite never having met anyone who fits that description is because feminists are still constantly talked about as being militant bitches. I don't know what else to call that sort of "not really there, but still perceived as being the norm" sort of thing, except a myth.

And we discuss everything over and over again on these boards. So what?

I forgot about that particular exchange. Damn, do we all just say the same shit around here over and over again?

Yes.

 

[JMohegan]

I forgot about that particular exchange. Damn, do we all just say the same shit around here over and over again?

Or is that just me?

Ha - maybe so.

Perhaps 5,000 posts is more than enough.

 

[Netzach]

Jesus Christ, Netzach. Where the fuck did that come from?

Is this first conversation we've had on the subject of feminism? I think not.

Right. It's also not the only time that you've pulled out the raging man-hating feminazi wahhh trope. I don't care who does it, I've gone toe to toe with people who do. It's crap. And it's crap when your contrasted person demonstrates her luvviness through her enjoyment of fucking - this is what makes her not like those evil beings, a wide hetero streak. Yay her.

You are right there are absolutely some raging far-entrenched nutcases like Valerie Solanas in your Feminist with a big F reader.

And I remind everyone that Valerie was a schizophrenic who turned street tricks for a living. I'm sure her experiences with men were such that she should have laid down her sword and sung kumbaya.

I am not one of these man hating people. I don't particularly like that they're cultural fucking punching bags for the mid-left however.

I've never seen anyone on my scale of the left-right spectrum go after Amiri Baraka or Elridge Cleaver like they do Catherine Mackinnon or Andrea Dworkin.

 

[intothewoods]

Ha - maybe so.

Perhaps 5,000 posts is more than enough.

Ok, I'll go delete the 3k extra.

And another thing - I know where you're coming from, but I swear posts like that give the lookwhatfeminismhasdonetous posters encouragement.

 

[intothewoods]

Right. It's also not the only time that you've pulled out the raging man-hating feminazi wahhh trope. I don't care who does it, I've gone toe to toe with people who do. It's crap. And it's crap when your contrasted person demonstrates her luvviness through her enjoyment of fucking - this is what makes her not like those evil beings, a wide hetero streak. Yay her.

You are right there are absolutely some raging far-entrenched nutcases like Valerie Solanas in your Feminist with a big F reader.

And I remind everyone that Valerie was a schizophrenic who turned street tricks for a living. I'm sure her experiences with men were such that she should have laid down her sword and sung kumbaya.

Let's be fair. She fucked ugly guys too.

I'm sorry, JM, that was wrong and bitchy of me, but I couldn't resist. Please don't post a picture of a tarantula.

 

[JMohegan]

She was attractive, friendly, and very smart. I laughed with her, studied with her, argued with her in class. She was an outspoken feminist, but not a man hater - and because of her eloquence and her absence of malice, she had more influence on my views of feminist issues than all the shrieking militant bitches combined. She was also passionate about social justice, not just in words but in personal time and effort. In short, she was one of the most fundamentally decent people I have ever known.

Right. It's also not the only time that you've pulled out the raging man-hating feminazi wahhh trope. I don't care who does it, I've gone toe to toe with people who do. It's crap. And it's crap when your contrasted person demonstrates her luvviness through her enjoyment of fucking - this is what makes her not like those evil beings, a wide hetero streak. Yay her.

I'm not going toe to toe with someone who distorts my post and ignores what I clearly said.

I thought we resolved this with mutual understanding in February, but I guess not.

I'm not your punching bag, Netzach. Fuck off.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not going toe to toe with someone who distorts my post and ignores what I clearly said.

I thought we resolved this with mutual understanding in February, but I guess not.

I'm not your punching bag, Netzach. Fuck off.

Your personality is like fine wine. It keeps getting better with age.

 

[graceanne]

I forgot about that particular exchange. Damn, do we all just say the same shit around here over and over again?

Or is that just me?

Yes. Welcome to why some people stop coming to this board.

Ok, I'll go delete the 3k extra.

I do not have that kind of time. Guess I'll just have to keep saying the same stuff over and over.

Cookies?

 

[ownedsubgal]

If someone posts: "I see nothing admirable in doormat slut sexuality," will you post yet another complaint about how hurtful that statement is?

that would depend on who made the statement...someone who's opinion matters to me? yes, i probably would, because it would hurt. but i've never claimed to have a fuzzy kitty view of all humankind, and just as there are (a great many) people who find my sexuality unfathomable and unappealing, there are certain sexualities i find unfathomable and unappealing. maybe that particular "archetype" offends me so much because it attacks and attempts to invalidate my sexuality.

 

[YourCaptor]

Sluts are sex gluttons

Or that is my impression

 

[ecstaticsub]

that would depend on who made the statement...someone who's opinion matters to me? yes, i probably would, because it would hurt. but i've never claimed to have a fuzzy kitty view of all humankind, and just as there are (a great many) people who find my sexuality unfathomable and unappealing, there are certain sexualities i find unfathomable and unappealing. maybe that particular "archetype" offends me so much because it attacks and attempts to invalidate my sexuality.

Women who are Samantha-ish don't attack and attempt to invalidate your sexuality anymore than your style of slavery invalidates theirs.

aggressive, confident, sexually liberated woman who has sex with many casual partners, on her own terms of course. a la Samantha of Sex in the City.

This describes me (except I would change many to a select few) mostly in my college days but also after marriage. I don't care if you don't find that admirable, it's not why I do it. I don't find how you live you life admirable or for that matter not admirable. It just the way you are, and I am just the way I am.

 

[StrayKat]

maybe that particular "archetype" offends me so much because it attacks and attempts to invalidate my sexuality.

Why do you think it does?
I dont think that particular archetype is even remotely interested in your sexuality least enough to attack it. One has to feel threatened to attack and I honestly cant imagine that type of women being threatened with your type of women in any way.

But I am really interested why you feel so intimidated.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Why do you think it does?
I dont think that particular archetype is even remotely interested in your sexuality least enough to attack it. One has to feel threatened to attack and I honestly cant imagine that type of women being threatened with your type of women in any way.

But I am really interested why you feel so intimidated.

i do not feel intimidated, nor do i feel that promiscuous feminists are going after promiscuous doormats with knives and torches. but when a society/culture presents certain, very narrow and limited (of course), acceptable or at least tolerable forms of sexuality, it invalidates those which are in direct opposition to those standards. this is not an individual thing, it is a cultural thing.

you find the same thing with the current "strong independent woman" image constantly boasted of and blasted at us throughout every sphere of one's life...academically, socially, and even the entertainment media, most especially so in the black community. for nearly the last decade at all times at least a dozen songs praising the virtues of the "independent woman" have remained in heavy rotation on the radio...and you have had female pop stars stand up as idols representing this lone image of woman...this one archetype is the best type of woman, the most successful, the most valuable, the most desirable, is the message that is loudly broadcast. that pop image makes me feel just as invalidated, or likely even more so, as the promiscuous feminist model.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Isn't that more a predatory cougar and less a slut?

of course. predatory cougar, aggressive seductress, femme fatale, etc. not really a slut in my view, but it is the more palatable and tolerable image of slut in mainstream society.

Let's not even get into what you are if you like to control your sexual destiny. Sorry, but at last count I'm a mythical tentacle beast or a cartoon.

This isn't intended as a dis, and I agree with a lot of things you say, but in this case you seem to think these media precedents are something more than a giant wank-off cartoon for the masses, and that they actually mean a Samantha in real life has any kind of moral support network for being that way. When I actually recognize women with sexuality remotely like mine anywhere in the mainstream I'll definitely let you know.

The femdom revolution is not being televised. In fact it's not even being addressed in Femdom kink.

first, i have to say it surprises me that you would identify even remotely with that vixen archetype. the vision i have you and your sexuality is something much more innate and organic, whereas i view the Samantha-esque types as more a reaction, a juvenile rebellion against patriarchy.

but i'm well aware that you don't see realistic or positive images of your sexuality portrayed anywhere by the mainstream any more than i do. it sucks all the way around.

 

[00Syd]

Man, I don't think anybody (men and women) sees positive images of their sexuality portrayed anywhere, even the most vanilla.