I think most women are basically sluts.

[minx1]

just because a woman will not say no to sex, does not mean that she is particularly horny or amped up about it. i am rarely horny, and i have never said no to sex. another semantic quibble, being a "slut" has nothing to do with sexual desire.

My own circumstances are very different to yours osg, but I can relate to this. I am often horny, but even when I'm not I have never said no to sex in the context of my own D/s relationship. I probably have sometimes in my vanilla relationships though.

Absolutely not. I think most women have sex far down on their list of priorities. Children, their home, work all come first. When they finally have a moment to themselves and with foreplay they crave and enjoy sex.

Most women are vanilla and the above is true. Maybe...just maybe in the kinky world most women are horny more often. But even kinky, often horny women have days where they are mentally or physically too exhausted to want sex.

I never say no to sex, whether from my PYL or husband but that doesn't mean I am always horny. They can help me get the juices going but that is different than being constantly horny.

I agree with all of that ES

 

[Bandit58]

...and the times that I have said no, has usually ended in a HUGE fight, thus leading to me not saying no the next time.

During my first marriage, I switched off my sexuality. My ex would guilt me into having sex - I'd do it because I wanted to avoid confrontation. I never had an orgasm with him, although I was able to by masturbating.

When I told him that, when I finally learned how to give myself an orgasm at the age of 22, instead of being happy that I could do this after three years of marriage, he said that if I was horny I should wait for him to have sex with me instead of masturbating Immediately I felt that what I had done was somehow wrong. That this was something that I should hide, and do in secret. I definitely wasn't getting pleasure out of sex My ex was an impatient and selfish man.....Sir was disgusted when I told Him what my marriage had been like.

I still switch off, even now that I am in a very happy marriage that is full of sexual pleasure. I find it hard to ask for sex....Sir's health affects our sex life but we are always affectionate and intimate and loving together. He wants me to be sexual, and I am - a lot more than I used to be

Regarding the "slut" word....Sir can call me a cock sucking slut and I won't blush near as much as when He says I am beautiful....

 

[rida]

Men are at the peak of sexual desires in their 20's, women in their 40's.

That's why when these two meet in bed all hell breaks loose.

20s are good for the stamina but 30s is when men gets interesting, to me.

By 40s and 50s ... either they know what they are doing or I do not want to bother

(spoken like a slut )

 

[Netzach]

The Taleban - what would the Taleban do? If a woman doesn't wear a full body-and-face veil down the street, they call her a slut.

No, they kill her. Let's not get too excited while we're in the western world here.

 

[BlitzKrieger]

Have to add my 2 cents worth here: My experience is that other women are more frequently the ones that hurl around the slut epithet than men. Ever spent any time around teenage girls? They are vicious, and spill the word slut like running water.

Of course, one could argue that any woman who called another a slut is simply responding from her cultural and societal conditioning. Somehow I don't think it's all that simple though. There's a deeper issue here that I am finding hard to put words to. I'll think on it a while and come back. *wanders off to make a cup of tea*

I don't know about all men, but most of the men I associate with love sluts. Let us hear a girls is a slut and she's instantly in the cool book. Invite her over, we have beer, let's see how long it takes her to get naked. Women are the ones who have put a negative stigma on the word slut. There are three main ego/self esteem crushing words one woman can sling at another. They are, starting from lowest in severity to highest: Slut, Whore, and Cunt. Cunt is a curse on a woman in a category all it's own, and I won't discuss it here. Those women who look down their noses at sluts and call them out on it are just jealous because they have been forced to live in a confined, closed-off lifestyle that has prevented them from enjoying the pleasures of their own bodies, and as such feel that if they can't live the life they know they want to, then no one else should either.

I think the whole thing is a farce, a ridiculous farce, meant to force someone into feeling ashamed of their actions/behavior so that they conform to fit the "norm". I hate the norm. Fuck normal. Give me a dirty slut who loves cock and isn't afraid to admit it. In my circle of friends we will love that woman, draw cards, and form a line to show her our love and appreciation for her lifestyle with smiles on our faces and hard cocks in our hands.

*quietly steps off his soapbox and looks around, sheepishly*
Sorry folks, this is one of my... ummm, highly emotionally charged topics of discussion. I hate hypocrisy, in any form, and to me the sub-human label placed on women who have embraced their sexual freedom by those of the "moral majority", and a large portion of our current society, really pisses me off.

 

[subish2009]

I don't know about all men, but most of the men I associate with love sluts. Let us hear a girls is a slut and she's instantly in the cool book. Invite her over, we have beer, let's see how long it takes her to get naked. Women are the ones who have put a negative stigma on the word slut. There are three main ego/self esteem crushing words one woman can sling at another. They are, starting from lowest in severity to highest: Slut, Whore, and Cunt. Cunt is a curse on a woman in a category all it's own, and I won't discuss it here. Those women who look down their noses at sluts and call them out on it are just jealous because they have been forced to live in a confined, closed-off lifestyle that has prevented them from enjoying the pleasures of their own bodies, and as such feel that if they can't live the life they know they want to, then no one else should either.

I think the whole thing is a farce, a ridiculous farce, meant to force someone into feeling ashamed of their actions/behavior so that they conform to fit the "norm". I hate the norm. Fuck normal. Give me a dirty slut who loves cock and isn't afraid to admit it. In my circle of friends we will love that woman, draw cards, and form a line to show her our love and appreciation for her lifestyle with smiles on our faces and hard cocks in our hands.

*quietly steps off his soapbox and looks around, sheepishly*
Sorry folks, this is one of my... ummm, highly emotionally charged topics of discussion. I hate hypocrisy, in any form, and to me the sub-human label placed on women who have embraced their sexual freedom by those of the "moral majority", and a large portion of our current society, really pisses me off.

I have heard this over and over from men for years, and believe it to be true. To most men, calling a woman a slut is far from an insult, sometimes a compliment. Basically, to men, it seems to mean merely "she likes sex." It's only vicious when women say it.

 

[NaughtyScotch]

I don't know about all men, but most of the men I associate with love sluts. Let us hear a girls is a slut and she's instantly in the cool book. Invite her over, we have beer, let's see how long it takes her to get naked. Women are the ones who have put a negative stigma on the word slut. There are three main ego/self esteem crushing words one woman can sling at another. They are, starting from lowest in severity to highest: Slut, Whore, and Cunt. Cunt is a curse on a woman in a category all it's own, and I won't discuss it here. Those women who look down their noses at sluts and call them out on it are just jealous because they have been forced to live in a confined, closed-off lifestyle that has prevented them from enjoying the pleasures of their own bodies, and as such feel that if they can't live the life they know they want to, then no one else should either.

I think the whole thing is a farce, a ridiculous farce, meant to force someone into feeling ashamed of their actions/behavior so that they conform to fit the "norm". I hate the norm. Fuck normal. Give me a dirty slut who loves cock and isn't afraid to admit it. In my circle of friends we will love that woman, draw cards, and form a line to show her our love and appreciation for her lifestyle with smiles on our faces and hard cocks in our hands.

*quietly steps off his soapbox and looks around, sheepishly*
Sorry folks, this is one of my... ummm, highly emotionally charged topics of discussion. I hate hypocrisy, in any form, and to me the sub-human label placed on women who have embraced their sexual freedom by those of the "moral majority", and a large portion of our current society, really pisses me off.

This was true for me. My best friend called me a slut to everybody we knew. After I had my first orgasm with sex at 19 I was hooked. Away I went on a journey to find more pleasure and excitement. She saw me as something horrible and proceeded to inform everyone of her opinion of what a "slut" I was. She on the other hand was quite the cold fish lol. To this day she still hates me. And I still feel guilty and ashamed because there is a probably a group of people I grew up with who sees me as a slut or whore or whatever. I just consider myself to be a nyphmo, I really enjoy sex and orgasms. And in reality, doesnt that just make me a guy??? But 36 years of society telling me I should be a "good little quiet girl with no sexuality" can really fuck with your head........ And it doesnt seem fair.

 

[Gilroygal69]

Men are at the peak of sexual desires in their 20's, women in their 40's.

That's why when these two meet in bed all hell breaks loose.

I don't know about that. Young men don't impress me. In fact, they annoy me quite a bit, and always have. I didn't care for twenty year old men when I *was* twenty.

They are selfish in bed and lack finesse. They have endurance and frequency on their side, sure, but that's about all they have over older men. It doesn't really matter that my husband can't get it up five times in a row anymore because that one time is mind blowing and supremely satisfying. Older men take their time and really make the most of the entire experience. They enjoy giving pleasure as much as receiving pleasure.

Also, I find myself unable to connect with younger men on a cerebral level. I'm not speaking strictly in terms of intelligence, because intellectual capacity doesn't necessarily tranlsate into an ability to engage on an emotional or intimate level. I just can't relate to someone, much less submit to someone, who hasn't had the life experience to relate to me as an equal or project the confidence and authority that I find so magnetic.

If I had to choose between a handsome young 20 something with chiselled abs and a tight ass and an average looking 40 year old with salt and pepper in his hair and a pot belly.....I'd go for the 40 year old every. single. time.

I doubt there's a twenty year old alive that could hadle or satisfy me.

I know, that sounds terribly supercillious and of course, now I'll get all kinds of replies refuting and/or debating that statement. But whatever.

I like men, not boys. And males do not fully mature until well into their thirties if you ask me. And, I have very specific and unconventional (though perhaps not to this crowd) tastes. I am not interested in having to teach someone how to please me, though I do understand why someone women find that titillating.

 

[SimonBrooke]

There are three main ego/self esteem crushing words one woman can sling at another. They are, starting from lowest in severity to highest: Slut, Whore, and Cunt. Cunt is a curse on a woman in a category all it's own, and I won't discuss it here.

[snip]

*quietly steps off his soapbox and looks around, sheepishly*
Sorry folks, this is one of my... ummm, highly emotionally charged topics of discussion. I hate hypocrisy, in any form, and to me the sub-human label placed on women who have embraced their sexual freedom by those of the "moral majority", and a large portion of our current society, really pisses me off.

OK, time for me to get on my soap box. Cunt is a very, very old word, and is the correct word in English (as opposed to medicalised latin) for that part of the female genitalia between the cunt-lips and the womb. It's also the root for the words 'cunning', 'know' and 'knowledge'. Why? Because our late stone-age/early bronze age ancestors believed that the seat of wisdom was in the female genitalia. That's why in old European folklore witches are always female: because men could not be wise, they didn't have the equipment.

So to call someone a 'cunt' is to say two things about her: that she's sexual, and that she's wise and knowledgeable. That does not seem to me a bad thing to say.

I have heard this over and over from men for years, and believe it to be true. To most men, calling a woman a slut is far from an insult, sometimes a compliment. Basically, to men, it seems to mean merely "she likes sex." It's only vicious when women say it.

OK, well, if this is true in the parts of the world where you live, I withdraw my earlier rant. But I still think it's in men's interests to give positive feedback to sexy women being sexy!

 

[ownedsubgal]

Men are at the peak of sexual desires in their 20's, women in their 40's.

That's why when these two meet in bed all hell breaks loose.

i've always strongly disagreed with this idea, but then i recognize i'm weird and could just fall wayyyy outside the common stats.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I have heard this over and over from men for years, and believe it to be true. To most men, calling a woman a slut is far from an insult, sometimes a compliment. Basically, to men, it seems to mean merely "she likes sex." It's only vicious when women say it.

as someone who was frequently referred to as a "slut" in my teenage years, by males and females alike (but mostly males), trust me, it was never a compliment, and it certainly did not mean that i was just a chick who liked sex. it meant that i was easy, that i wouldn't say no, that a lot of guys had fucked me, etc.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Yeah, right.

I never say no, but K really wants me to be enjoying it. But there have times when I'm tired, or whatever, and he's really horny, where we've had sex anyway. Oh, well.

The first time we did that, I was preggers (and sick) and he was so surprised that I was willing to put out when I wasn't interested at all. Now he'll try to get me interested, but if that doesn't work and he's really horny, he just laughs and we have sex anyway.

and that sounds perfectly normal to me, probably something most women who've been in long-term relationships can relate to.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Just poking my head in to give osg a hug, because I miss her.

awwwwww.... *big hugz*

 

[Primalex]

By slut I don't mean that they sleep with a lot of guys. I just mean they are horny pretty much all of the time. The trick is you have to play nice until they drop their guard. A simple lesson the ASSHATs never seem to learn.

a) Women enjoy sex as much and as often as men do. And as we all know that humans are fickle and that there are even men out there who don't have sex every day, this knowledge does not help you at all when dealing with a particular person right in front of you.

b) You only have to play nice when this is the best you can offer. Getting sex because you've been a nice guy is, in my opinion, the most pitiful reason.

 

[thatgirl2136]

I don't think having a strong sexual appetite makes women sluts, nor does it apply to every woman...In that retrospect guys are the same way.

 

[graceanne]

and that sounds perfectly normal to me, probably something most women who've been in long-term relationships can relate to.

Honestly, and I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, I've never understood this 'only putting out when you're in the mood' thing. First off, women complain that they can't have sex unless they feel 'close' rolleyes: ) to their mate, but men don't feel close to their mate unless they're having sex. So by not having sex, you're shooting yourself in the foot, cause men are more likely to do the things that make you feel close to them if they're getting laid regularly.

Second, women have been having sex when they're not in the mood for a very long time. Plan your menu's and all that. AND, I think quite often sex becomes a power struggle when women won't put out unless they're 'in the mood'. It's a way to make your man beg. Honestly, nothing would annoy me (or turn me off) more than K begging for nookie.

It's not like women are made like men where they have to be excited to do it, just a little ky (or lotion) and ready to go.

Plus, what you said about it being a service sort of rang a bell for me. Having sex when I'm not horny is something I do for him 'cause I love him, I want him to be happy, and I don't want him to have to be horny.

 

[BlitzKrieger]

Honestly, and I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, I've never understood this 'only putting out when you're in the mood' thing. First off, women complain that they can't have sex unless they feel 'close' rolleyes: ) to their mate, but men don't feel close to their mate unless they're having sex. So by not having sex, you're shooting yourself in the foot, cause men are more likely to do the things that make you feel close to them if they're getting laid regularly.

This reminded me of the old saying: Men give love to get sex, women give sex to get love.

Funny old world, ain't it?

 

[ZRT]

Going back to the OP, the whole concept of 'playing' is precisely the problem.

Unless you're a manipulative (read: insecure) shit, playing doesn't work. Authenticity is the key.

Gender stereotyping is big-time LOL. The key to the game is to regard everybody on both sides as people, with all the usual quirks and foibles of peopleness.

Oversimplification comes from frustration, and leads to more frustration.

 

[Gilroygal69]

. Having sex when I'm not horny is something I do for him 'cause I love him, I want him to be happy, and I don't want him to have to be horny.

This is something it really took me a while to get when I was first married and when I was a tired, harried new mother. Men equate sex with love. Thus, when I was rejecting sex, I was rejecting him, and worse, making him feel as if I was dismissive of his needs. Of course, I felt he was being dismissive of my needs as well.

Once we understood each other's "love currency" it was really like a light bulb going off.

So I give blow jobs when I'm not necessarily in the mood. And not begruding perfunctory little blow jobs either. I mean long, wet, enthusiastic ones where I use everything in my little bag of tricks...and then some. It makes him feel good, not just physically, but emotionally. He feels that I care. And it costs me nothing but a little spit. And I will end up benefitting somewhere along the way. Some time to myself, doing a load of laundry for me, fixing dinner on a night when I'm exhausted. Everybody wins.

 

[graceanne]

This is something it really took me a while to get when I was first married and when I was a tired, harried new mother. Men equate sex with love. Thus, when I was rejecting sex, I was rejecting him, and worse, making him feel as if I was dismissive of his needs. Of course, I felt he was being dismissive of my needs as well.

Once we understood each other's "love currency" it was really like a light bulb going off.

There's actually a book about love languages (I think that's the name of the book, actually), and the idea of the book is everyone has their own 'love language' and if you can figure out what your partners is you can keep them feeling loved. Of course it works best if your partner also knows yours and is also trying to make you feel loved. For K touch is big; everywhere from a stroke on the back, to a hug, to a blow job. Touching and snuggling and all that makes him feel loved. For me its words of praise. I need to be told I"m loved, i need praise and sincere compliments.

So I give blow jobs when I'm not necessarily in the mood. And not begruding perfunctory little blow jobs either. I mean long, wet, enthusiastic ones where I use everything in my little bag of tricks...and then some. It makes him feel good, not just physically, but emotionally. He feels that I care.

We always did what I called 'handjobs with oomph', which is not just the actual hand job, but the making out the foreplay and the (i wasn't enjoying it, but he does) and the snuggling. And occasionally, as I've said, we get out the KY and he doesn't worry about getting me off, first. lol

And it costs me nothing but a little spit. And I will end up benefitting somewhere along the way. Some time to myself, doing a load of laundry for me, fixing dinner on a night when I'm exhausted. Everybody wins.

It's like I tell the kids, it all works out in the wash. That time it worked in his favor, next time it'll be mine. No one's keeping a score board, we just know it will.

 

[Netzach]

Honestly, and I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, I've never understood this 'only putting out when you're in the mood' thing. First off, women complain that they can't have sex unless they feel 'close' rolleyes: ) to their mate, but men don't feel close to their mate unless they're having sex. So by not having sex, you're shooting yourself in the foot, cause men are more likely to do the things that make you feel close to them if they're getting laid regularly.

Second, women have been having sex when they're not in the mood for a very long time. Plan your menu's and all that. AND, I think quite often sex becomes a power struggle when women won't put out unless they're 'in the mood'. It's a way to make your man beg. Honestly, nothing would annoy me (or turn me off) more than K begging for nookie.

It's not like women are made like men where they have to be excited to do it, just a little ky (or lotion) and ready to go.

Plus, what you said about it being a service sort of rang a bell for me. Having sex when I'm not horny is something I do for him 'cause I love him, I want him to be happy, and I don't want him to have to be horny.

I'm not flaming you, but I am sticking my head out the window and going "interesting planet you got there."

I think nothing would turn me off more than someone who was like, ho hum, whatever you feel like dear, let's if you must - about nookie. Begging is lively.

I also get and give consideration and laundry and kisses and all that shit whether or not I'm getting laid as much as I'd like. I'm the one with the high powered sex drive.

 

[bruisedangel]

I see promiscuity and slutiness as two different things, the only thing in common being is that sexual activity is required. Sluttiness is more of a mentality issue. The person doesn't so much want to sleep around as the want of desirableness. IE: "If I have all this attention from the opposite sex, I'm therefore desirable, ergo, I'm hotter than you". Promiscuity is more of a mindset where one thinks, "I really don't care how many different people want me, I want what I want. If I get it, great." The problem with both of these is that we live in a ridiculously puritanical society that's at odds with the media. One is taught from a young age that to be sexual/sexualized is a 'bad' thing, but in the same breath, we're inundated from all sides with the message that sex sells. Everyone, but especially girls in the 16-25 range winds up with a severely mixed message. So, in one breath a girl is being told to be a 'good girl,' and in the other, she's being told that to sell herself, (be popular, be pretty, etc.), there needs to be a sexualization. I certainly can't think of a great number of girl in that age range, who suffer from self-esteem issues, that would have the mentality on all levels to be able to deal with that. At least not without becoming what is catagorically known as "slut."

 

[rida]

I'm not flaming you, but I am sticking my head out the window and going "interesting planet you got there."

I think nothing would turn me off more than someone who was like, ho hum, whatever you feel like dear, let's if you must - about nookie. Begging is lively.

I also get and give consideration and laundry and kisses and all that shit whether or not I'm getting laid as much as I'd like. I'm the one with the high powered sex drive.

I, like Graceanne and Gilroygal69 have no problem letting my Hubby or bf have sex just because they want to. It is part of service and making them happy.

However if I turn the whole concept on its head and think about a men having sex with me just because I want it ... that would not work at all.

I thought it was because I'm wired to want to give pleasure as I ID as submissive. But if you (Netzach) don't appreciate obligatory nookies, maybe is just one of those women VS men thing?

 

[graceanne]

I'm not flaming you, but I am sticking my head out the window and going "interesting planet you got there."

I think nothing would turn me off more than someone who was like, ho hum, whatever you feel like dear, let's if you must - about nookie. Begging is lively.

I also get and give consideration and laundry and kisses and all that shit whether or not I'm getting laid as much as I'd like. I'm the one with the high powered sex drive.

Well, you're also a woman. But, as I think I said (way earlier in the thread, and just in passing), me and K having sex when I'm not in the mood is rare. For one thing, I'm almost always in the mood, and for another he really doesn't like having sex when I"m not enjoying it. He has to be REALLY horny for this to happen. In other words, barring pregnancies, this has happened only a handful of times.

 

[YourCaptor]

20s are good for the stamina but 30s is when men gets interesting, to me.

By 40s and 50s ... either they know what they are doing or I do not want to bother

(spoken like a slut )

I don't know about that. Young men don't impress me. In fact, they annoy me quite a bit, and always have. I didn't care for twenty year old men when I *was* twenty.

They are selfish in bed and lack finesse. They have endurance and frequency on their side, sure, but that's about all they have over older men. It doesn't really matter that my husband can't get it up five times in a row anymore because that one time is mind blowing and supremely satisfying. Older men take their time and really make the most of the entire experience. They enjoy giving pleasure as much as receiving pleasure.

Also, I find myself unable to connect with younger men on a cerebral level. I'm not speaking strictly in terms of intelligence, because intellectual capacity doesn't necessarily tranlsate into an ability to engage on an emotional or intimate level. I just can't relate to someone, much less submit to someone, who hasn't had the life experience to relate to me as an equal or project the confidence and authority that I find so magnetic.

If I had to choose between a handsome young 20 something with chiselled abs and a tight ass and an average looking 40 year old with salt and pepper in his hair and a pot belly.....I'd go for the 40 year old every. single. time.

I doubt there's a twenty year old alive that could hadle or satisfy me.

I know, that sounds terribly supercillious and of course, now I'll get all kinds of replies refuting and/or debating that statement. But whatever.

I like men, not boys. And males do not fully mature until well into their thirties if you ask me. And, I have very specific and unconventional (though perhaps not to this crowd) tastes. I am not interested in having to teach someone how to please me, though I do understand why someone women find that titillating.

Ok maybe bad wording on my part.

I'm not talking about maturity here, more appetite and capacity.

Most men are at their horniest, and most capable of arousal in their 20s, and most women in their 40s.

and please on the life experience crap. I know 40 year olds that talk like 13 year old boys that just found their penis.

Check out the wondrous dating advice I got. "Just talk to any girl, doesn't matter what she looks like, when the lights are off you can't see her anyway."

Or this other genius who asked why I don't use my battle scars for pity with the girls.

I think your romanticizing the situation.