UK PM apologises to Alan Turing

[matriarch]

At last. The original actions were beyond contempt, but at least someone has now stood up and apologised.

PM Apologises to Alan Turing


PM apologises after Turing petition

 

[Stella_Omega]

yes, a public step forward!

 

[Teloz]

At last. The original actions were beyond contempt, but at least someone has now stood up and apologised.

PM Apologises to Alan Turing


PM apologises after Turing petition

Thankfully our country has also stepped forward from those dark days too!

 

[Verdad]

A for Turing, and everyone who underwent the same treatment.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

An apology is a decent first step, but they still owe the man a knighthood, given what he did in WWII.

 

[Dragonlipz]

As well he should - the debt that the world collectively owes Alan cannot be paid, but it can be acknowledged......his was a rare genius......

 

[Liar]

An apology is a decent first step, but they still owe the man a knighthood, given what he did in WWII.

And what he did for the scientific community. he put his genius at work for the benefit of country in wartime, and for the benefit of human kind in peace time.

The man redefined the very idea what it was possible for mathematics to achieve. He made algorithms modular and scalable, and thus in theory infinitely complex. The single most important element of computing to this day.

So, good news. But loooooong overdue.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Their treatment cut his life short. He had another half century of work ahead of him...

And, you know-- there's an estimate of 100,000 men who were treated the same. No apology to them?

 

[TE999]

The Nazi's sent gay men like Turing to the death camps. Who knows how many of their lives he saved by cracking the Enigma codes, shortening the war by years.

It's an apology long overdue.

 

[Teloz]

Their treatment cut his life short. He had another half century of work ahead of him...

And, you know-- there's an estimate of 100,000 men who were treated the same. No apology to them?

I believe, but I have no way of backing up my belief, that the death of Alan Turing contributed to the legalisation in England of homosexuality between consenting adults (adult at that time meant over 21) in private in 1967.

Whilst I can sympathise with what you say Stella, Turing fell foul of what was then the law, as did the other 100,000. We know the law was cruel and inhumane, but that wasn't so in the 1950's and as you well know, homophobia still exists. If I remember correctly, it was 2003 before the Supreme Court in the USA eliminated all state sodomy laws. If I'm wrong I apologise.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Whats amazing about it is, Turing isnt even a Libyan terrorist. Those limeys are full of surprises.

Maybe it was Turing's first name that fooled the PM, 'AL.'

 

[elfin_odalisque]

At last. The original actions were beyond contempt, but at least someone has now stood up and apologised.

No, Mat, you get it wrong. By this petition and apology, Turing is changed from a brilliant mathematician who played a crucial part in winning the war into some kind of gay iconoclast - a million miles from what he would want to be remembered for.

For good or bad (v bad in my opinion) the law proscribed homosexual relations and he had sex with a 19-year-old boy knowing the consequences. Is the British PM going to apologize to Oscar Wilde because a fabulous talent was snuffed out in Reading Gaol? What about the Witchfinder General or the abduction of Irish and Liverpool cildren to be the first 'rednecks' - or is that down to Obama?

There is no apology needed and making one strikes of political chicanery. When is the British PM going to apologize to British and US victims for releasing a mass murderer.

Turing was a genius and a guiding light to winning the war. He chose (and I support his choice) to flout the law and was faced with a judgement he couldn't accept.

The apology is tawdry, illogical and politically motivated.

Turing would have hated the psychoneurosis.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Whats between your legs is more important than brains. Turing managed to esteem himself without a piece of shit Brit PM validating him. I know I'd be embarrassed if the PM tried to hang a plastic trophy around my neck, things being how they are in Limey Land.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Whats between your legs is more important than brains. Turing managed to esteem himself without a piece of shit Brit PM validating him. I know I'd be embarrassed if the PM tried to hang a plastic trophy around my neck, things being how they are in Limey Land.

I usually try to ignore your vitriolic and neanderthal rants, but here you have gone too far.

Turing was a genius, albeit a troubled genius, and the work he did saved souls like me and shits like you from a lack of freedom. This site exists partly because of Turing's work.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I usually try to ignore your vitriolic and neanderthal rants, but here you have gone too far.

Turing was a genius, albeit a troubled genius, and the work he did saved souls like me and shits like you from a lack of freedom. This site exists partly because of Turing's work.

Dear Shit For Brains,

I like Turing fine, what I dont like is your Libyan loving PM.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, Mat, you get it wrong. By this petition and apology, Turing is changed from a brilliant mathematician who played a crucial part in winning the war into some kind of gay iconoclast - a million miles from what he would want to be remembered for.

For good or bad (v bad in my opinion) the law proscribed homosexual relations and he had sex with a 19-year-old boy knowing the consequences. Is the British PM going to apologize to Oscar Wilde because a fabulous talent was snuffed out in Reading Gaol? What about the Witchfinder General or the abduction of Irish and Liverpool cildren to be the first 'rednecks' - or is that down to Obama?

There is no apology needed and making one strikes of political chicanery. When is the British PM going to apologize to British and US victims for releasing a mass murderer.

Turing was a genius and a guiding light to winning the war. He chose (and I support his choice) to flout the law and was faced with a judgement he couldn't accept.

The apology is tawdry, illogical and politically motivated.

Turing would have hated the psychoneurosis.

tawdry? yes. Illogical? Humans do not live on logic alone. Politically motivated?

On the behalf of the millions of gay people, I, personally, appreciate the apology. This may seem illogical to you, but then-- your live isn't impacted by this particular political issue, that shouldn't be a political issue at all, but merely part of my life.

I gotta say "chose to flout the law" exhibits a woeful misunderstanding of what "choice" is. I can't wait to watch you agonise over whether or not you should "choose to flout the law," if heterosexuality becomes illegal.

Or breathing.

We need the political gesture now.

WE need it.

The ones of us who are living.

 

[Handley_Page]

Dear Shit For Brains,

I like Turing fine, what I dont like is your Libyan loving PM.

You not alone in thinking our PM is a bit of a berk.
Most of us think he's a real idiot (and unelected at that).

But why pick on just him ? There were a lot of gay men at Bletchley; often hidden by a marriage of convenience. Turing didn't fancy being so dishonest.

However,
The law of the land was, in those days, that being Gay was a crime.

There is a theory that nobody could bring themselves to tell Queen Victoria that some women preferred women to men which is why females were not so prosecuted.

It wasn't until the mid 60s when the issue came up in a film (with Dirk Bogard) and the law was finally sorted out.

I think I've worded this all wrong 'cos I'm in a hurry.
Sorry

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not picking on gays. I'm tossing shit at your PM.

Turing was a phenomenal math whiz regardless of his stripes; your pathetic PM cant add to Turing's honor no more than he can add to Tchaikovsky's honor as a world class composer. Its a prissy publicity stunt.

 

[Teloz]

tawdry? yes. Illogical? Humans do not live on logic alone. Politically motivated?

On the behalf of the millions of gay people, I, personally, appreciate the apology. This may seem illogical to you, but then-- your live isn't impacted by this particular political issue, that shouldn't be a political issue at all, but merely part of my life.

I gotta say "chose to flout the law" exhibits a woeful misunderstanding of what "choice" is. I can't wait to watch you agonise over whether or not you should "choose to flout the law," if heterosexuality becomes illegal.

Or breathing.

We need the political gesture now.

WE need it.

The ones of us who are living.

Stella, you have the oratory of a politician, but the self respect to stay out of politics. Go girl! I agree with every word! (And I'm straight.)

 

[ishtat]

I disagree with Matriarch's take on this mainly for the reasons outlined by Elfin.

Last year I read Alan Hodges biography of Turing, itself a remarkable insight into the man, yet even Hodge the biographer and also a mathematician concluded that ultimately Turing himself remains an enigma.

I am convinced of the following:-

1 Turing himself would have objected vociferously to the making of himself into a gay icon. What happened to him was cruel and wrong but was based in ignorance rather than malice.

2 It seems to me to be quite wrong and monumentally arrogant to apologise for the sins of a past generation. Who are we to judge our forebears when we have enough to apologise for in our own generation's conduct.

3 In addition, an apology implies some sort of closure and warrant of forgiveness. I do not think we should indulge the feeling that we are somehow better people and forgiven because we have apologised. It is more intellectually and emotionally honest to live with and regret our past errrors however egregrious than seek some falsely based solace.

4 I reserve the greatest contempt for Gordon Brown who hasn't hesitated to sentimentalise and exploit a great human tragedy for political gain.